Mid RA's... Overpowered?

[Jergiot]

what makes PR and ichor more overpowered then, i dont know lets say, baod/gp/bof/sos ?

 

[osrim]

Originally posted by AbPoon
Yeah cause grouped tanks really need AP dont they :E

if albs kills seers last, mid/hib tanks really need ap then

And savager with ap would be unkillable with melee <shrugs>

 

[old.Ramas]

I do agree with you when you suggest mend/aug healers are not significantly overpowered. This is specifically because of the healing special case, and the fact that buffs are not an active ability.

Your cc, while it is caster calibre, just happens to be of sorts that aren't all that powerful in rvr.

The problem comes as soon as you put spec points in pac as either your primary or secondary line, imo you then have an ability/role that should not be sitting behind a shield in chain armour.

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
so i'd trade my pr for bof any day of the week.

I'm sure you would. Now lets make it a little more realistic. Are you willing to give up:

* Insta AoE stun
* Insta PB Desease on a short timer on your end provider that has no need to stand still with perma sprint and chain (or the snare effect at least)
* Savagery line hugely reduced or removed
* Only equivilent long timered insta mezz in the game (AoE stun + castable mezz)
* PR
* Ichor

for BoF/SoS or GP/BoaD?

If so then yes BoF is for you. Until then BoF type RA's won't even things out. They'll just widen the relative strength between mid:hib/alb even more.

ATM you have

Best CC
Best damage dealing tanks
Best end

Arguably the 3 most important things in RvR in recent history. I see little reason to add "Best RA's" to the list.

Or is this the knee jerk reaction to the threat of mid losing it's huge advantage over hib/alb, in one way or another, for the first time in 2 years of playing?

B.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Begach
I'm sure you would. Now lets make it a little more realistic. Are you willing to give up:

* Insta AoE stun
* Insta PB Desease on a short timer on your end provider that has no need to stand still with perma sprint and chain (or the snare effect at least)
* Savagery line hugely reduced or removed
* Only equivilent long timered insta mezz in the game (AoE stun + castable mezz)
* PR
* Ichor
B.

i wouldnt mind if all them went, as long as we got

BoF
SoS
mezz reduction single/group
AP on healer+skald
Spec AF buff
Bolt Range mezz

in return, straight swop, i think getting the latter would make middy a hell of alot stronger

Originally posted by Begach
Or is this the knee jerk reaction to the threat of mid losing it's huge advantage over hib/alb, in one way or another, for the first time in 2 years of playing?

Hmm i dont remember middy being top for 2 years, pre smite nerf, albion was head and shoulders above the other 2 imho, post 1.51(hibby love) hibernia was out performing every other realm on almostall servers, it wasnt until end regen+cheap tank ra's were introduced to middy that middy started to shine alot more than the other 2.

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Rollie
i wouldnt mind if all them went, as long as we got

BoF
SoS
mezz reduction single/group
AP on healer+skald
Spec AF buff
Bolt Range mezz

in return, straight swop, i think getting the latter would make middy a hell of alot stronger

LOL......you just took all of the strengths in alb an non of the weaknesses. Well done. Rollie for head of mythic dev team imo. The man simply OOOOOOOOOZES game balance!!!



PS btw afaik skald gets AP anyway. Bard is the only song class without chain and AP ;p

B.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Begach
LOL......you just took all of the strengths in alb an non of the weaknesses. Well done. Rollie for head of mythic dev team imo. The man simply OOOOOOOOOZES game balance!!!



B.

You asked if we would mind these going...

* Insta AoE stun
* Insta PB Desease on a short timer on your end provider that has no need to stand still with perma sprint and chain (or the snare effect at least)
* Savagery line hugely reduced or removed
* Only equivilent long timered insta mezz in the game (AoE stun + castable mezz)
* PR
* Ichor


these are some of midgards best things, and you asked if we would be fine with them removed, i would be, if we got decent things to replace the things we lost and i mentioned some things i would like, as i said i WOULD much prefer the things i mentioned, i of course know it would be out of balance hence the smile at the end of the sentence, i did expect you to understand that but nm.

Your asking to remove our only 2 RA's that we use and some other stuff.

Best end imho is on a paladin, shamans is "good" but not the best imho since its conc based so to buff a full group of mids you NEED a buffbot. paladins with about 1k Af+shield+plate are better for end as they are usually the last to go down unlike a shammie who has very little defence, once shammie is down tanks ooe fast.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
I do agree with you when you suggest mend/aug healers are not significantly overpowered. This is specifically because of the healing special case, and the fact that buffs are not an active ability.

Your cc, while it is caster calibre, just happens to be of sorts that aren't all that powerful in rvr.

The problem comes as soon as you put spec points in pac as either your primary or secondary line, imo you then have an ability/role that should not be sitting behind a shield in chain armour.

Bards get dodger+shield+ip and a few other nice things, i know bards need help as well with some issues but just because albion is the only realm with cloth caster as main CC(big error by mythic imho) doesnt mean healers need nerfing, which is where the original discussion started

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Rollie
paladins with about 1k Af+shield+plate are better for end as they are usually the last to go down

They wouldn't be if alb had the savage available to them. Only way to take a savage group down is to drop thier end. The reason why a pally usually lasts a full fight is because dropping him is irrelevant compared to removing end from mid dmg tanks and removing healer/shammie perma sprint.

Again a pretty wierd comparison in context. Try comparing shammie end to bard instead (ie instead of perma up it's perma down). Hows that work for you?

B.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Begach
The reason why a pally usually lasts a full fight is because dropping him is irrelevant compared to removing end from mid dmg tanks and removing healer/shammie perma sprint.

huh? this is a joke right? this makes no sence, albs run tank groups and have clerics also you know..........

and if our shaman dies i pop an end pot, you have them in albion right? or do you want end pots removed from middy also?

Originally posted by Begach
Again a pretty wierd comparison in context. Try comparing shammie end to bard instead (ie instead of perma up it's perma down). Hows that work for you?

B. [/B]

why, end regen can be compared to all 3 realms, bards have the worst, pala's have the best, shamans is good but has a major drawback with it being conc based.

 

[AbPoon]

Originally posted by Begach
They wouldn't be if alb had the savage available to them. Only way to take a savage group down is to drop thier end. The reason why a pally usually lasts a full fight is because dropping him is irrelevant compared to removing end from mid dmg tanks and removing healer/shammie perma sprint.

Again a pretty wierd comparison in context. Try comparing shammie end to bard instead (ie instead of perma up it's perma down). Hows that work for you?

B.

Dropped end does little to a Savage.

Do you know anything about the class at all?

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by AbPoon
Dropped end does little to a Savage.

Do you know anything about the class at all?

Yeah savages don't use sprint right?

B.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Begach
Yeah savages don't use sprint right?

B.

thanks for proving your ignorance

 

[gwal]

Originally posted by Begach
Yeah savages don't use sprint right?

B.

haha

might wanna read through a few things dude


and to the thread:
dont start complaining about mid ra´s, its an argument ur bound to loose.

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Rollie
Bards

I suspect bards would happily swap their cc capabilities line for the Pac line cc capabilities

That said, personally I think bard cc needs reducing as well, the reason bards don't break the game as significantly is that they don't have more than one cc timer, and most of hib is still populated by enchanters. You will also notice that the other spells bards have in place of cc other than mez, are not caster calibre.

Primary cc needs to be on a cloth class, or it needs reducing in power, that way we can have classes in game that don't have determination but are nonetheless worth a damn.

And insta-ranged-aoe-cc hasn't stopped being overpowered just because the classes who can be cced (non-tanks) are less valuble right now.

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

mid RAs are not overpowered - mids have the luck that they got the best RA of its realm (PR) on a class that is present 2-3x in a usual gank group. Ichor is a nice RA too but not uber (in the ranks of the warden's TWF)

Hibs best RA by far is GP (and maybe the best RA in the game since it makes caster groups possible who otherwise would be mezzed for 5 mins). BAOD would be nice - but neither mids nor albs use casters (except for pickup groups) and relying on BAOD to do GPs job is a bit risky...

albs best RAs are BOF and SOS and imo SOS is even better than BOF. BOF against hibs (95% mage groups) is pretty useless and against a savage group it will only delay the inevitable - whereas SOS gives a tank group a very nice possibility to take out the enemy core classes first.


From RA point of view the game is as balanced as it can be. Only a few classes that need some fixing...

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Arnor


thanks for proving your ignorance

LOL Aiit owned Never entered my mind (or noticed it on herald) that a pure tank would have 60% insta?? end on 5 sec recast at what? 180-200 hp cost?

Gay :great:

B.

 

[vindicat0r]

It's not Mid's fault that savage's are overpowered, It's mythic's.


If mythic gave hib an Uber powerful class everybody there would roll it < points Chanters > and same goes for alb, some would say merc but not really ther just the best tank alb has atm and in the current state of RvR tank's are king etc so makes them seem best.

PR is not overpowered at all, it is just a 2nd chance to do a quick temp fix to a mistake, an unbuffed healer goes down fast. The tricky thing about PR is the Healers using it on each other meaning you have to eat through 6 bar's of power + RP + mcl + power pots + crack. That's a hell of alot of healing / Rezzing / CC'in power.

If a healer dies and get's PR'd do NOT try kill the healer that just used PR, kill the same PR'd healer again as he will prob just PR his other Healer friend that get's killed or heal him safely while the savage's have finished butt fucking your support and eventually your tank's. Lucky a Healer cant use PR twice ^^


So no PR and Ichor isnt Overpowered but Mid do have a bolt range insta CC every 30 min's btw , they dont really rely on this to win a fight ofc it's just another nice tool on a great supp charc.

Peace

 

[old.Ramas]

What vindi said, also it's worth noting that neither PR, BoF nor BAoD actually turns that many fights.

Fact is that in a typical 1-2fg vs 1-2fg fight, one side will normally win with at most one or two deaths on the winners side. PR BoF and BAoD etc can all put off the inevitable if used by the losing side, or save time on healing after the fight if used by the winning side, but a far smaller percentage of fights actually get turned by these abilities than is reguarly claimed in whine threads.

Getting the jump on the enemy and having arranged an experienced and balanced group > all.

Admittedly a group is easier to balance if all you need is healers, savages, and a skald.

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by Rollie
druids nurture line is fine imho, its support, they have 2 insta cc, baseline root, and a pet to interupt enemy casters.

nature

 

[duact]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
mid RAs are not overpowered - mids have the luck that they got the best RA of its realm (PR) on a class that is present 2-3x in a usual gank group. Ichor is a nice RA too but not uber (in the ranks of the warden's TWF)

Hibs best RA by far is GP (and maybe the best RA in the game since it makes caster groups possible who otherwise would be mezzed for 5 mins). BAOD would be nice - but neither mids nor albs use casters (except for pickup groups) and relying on BAOD to do GPs job is a bit risky...

albs best RAs are BOF and SOS and imo SOS is even better than BOF. BOF against hibs (95% mage groups) is pretty useless and against a savage group it will only delay the inevitable - whereas SOS gives a tank group a very nice possibility to take out the enemy core classes first.


From RA point of view the game is as balanced as it can be. Only a few classes that need some fixing...

have to agree 100%

 

[duact]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
What vindi said, also it's worth noting that neither PR, BoF nor BAoD actually turns that many fights.

Fact is that in a typical 1-2fg vs 1-2fg fight, one side will normally win with at most one or two deaths on the winners side. PR BoF and BAoD etc can all put off the inevitable if used by the losing side, or save time on healing after the fight if used by the winning side, but a far smaller percentage of fights actually get turned by these abilities than is reguarly claimed in whine threads.

Getting the jump on the enemy and having arranged an experienced and balanced group > all.

Admittedly a group is easier to balance if all you need is healers, savages, and a skald.

and shaman

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
I suspect bards would happily swap their cc capabilities line for the Pac line cc capabilities

That said, personally I think bard cc needs reducing as well, the reason bards don't break the game as significantly is that they don't have more than one cc timer, and most of hib is still populated by enchanters. You will also notice that the other spells bards have in place of cc other than mez, are not caster calibre.

Primary cc needs to be on a cloth class, or it needs reducing in power, that way we can have classes in game that don't have determination but are nonetheless worth a damn.

And insta-ranged-aoe-cc hasn't stopped being overpowered just because the classes who can be cced (non-tanks) are less valuble right now.

I think we have to agree to disagree arindra mate, i think all realms should be different, but i also think there should be balance, and atm in terms of CC, albion has the best mezz but on a cloth class which is very hard to balance.

Insta CC is a waste now, i dont know 1 healer that would use insta mezz soon as he see's a group.