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angara-ffs
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- #31
Why do people think GP is that good.
Its shit, expensive for what you get for it.
Why do people think GP is that good.
Its shit, expensive for what you get for it.
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Khalen
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- #32
Check timer on AE disease from Mid and that IP doesn't give immunity for it sucks donkey balls. For the rest I don't think PR is that uber. Once it's down they can be defeated easier, same with BoF, SoS, BaoD, GP, etc.
All I would like to see is a chant end on midgard and that ae disease changed a bit (Highest pb ae shout disease is 3 mins long. This and only this makes it for albs/hibs hard to take down enemy support of those mid groups who use it well. Wonder why disease has to slow us down?) But anyway that's only thing I might wanna tweak a bit and then check how it goes. No big nerfs or whatsoever just a little adjustment. It might bring the battles more in balance and imo more fun for both
All I would like to see is a chant end on midgard and that ae disease changed a bit (Highest pb ae shout disease is 3 mins long. This and only this makes it for albs/hibs hard to take down enemy support of those mid groups who use it well. Wonder why disease has to slow us down?) But anyway that's only thing I might wanna tweak a bit and then check how it goes. No big nerfs or whatsoever just a little adjustment. It might bring the battles more in balance and imo more fun for both
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Divinia
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- #33
Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
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belth
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- #34
Give Mercs AP like zerkers please
The merc has chain argument won't hold btw, zerks have evade3, mercs evade1
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censi
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- #35
nerf savage
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ulke
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- #36
Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
lol
lol
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Subbiz
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- #37
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Karlo
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- #38
LOL ABOUT 2 people got the irony ^^
Nice post arnor
Nice post arnor
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AbPoon
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- #39
Originally posted by belth
Give Mercs AP like zerkers please
The merc has chain argument won't hold btw, zerks have evade3, mercs evade1
Yeah cause grouped tanks really need AP dont they :E
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Karlo
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- #40
give savages ap imho.
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belth
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- #41
Would be another sink, besides the mandatory Det4, PF, possible IP
Why do zerkers "need" it? To pop it when you pop vendo?
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jox
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- #42
I remember back in the days when I was a gimped cb and Mythic implemented ras. I was so happy when I, at last could afford Shadowrun. I bought it and ran, and ran and ran. It was so fun.
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belth
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- #43
Buy it again to restore the old days?
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angara-ffs
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- #44
Re: Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
Its not really funny tho
Its not really funny tho
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Gahldir
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- #45
Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
yeah, cuz it's the rezz itself that does this.
no, it's when you die when you lose stuff.
yeah, cuz it's the rezz itself that does this.
no, it's when you die when you lose stuff.
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Lumikki
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- #46
You are joking, right.......?
geez..
xx
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old.Ramas
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- #47
Mid gets overlooked for good abilities or fixes to broken classes because it has always had Healers and at least one other overpowered class (thanes at the start, through runemasters, beserkers, now savages).
Fix Savages and Healers, then suddenly Mid has a chance of getting the underpowered classes loved, and the underpowered RAs fixed.
Fix Savages and Healers, then suddenly Mid has a chance of getting the underpowered classes loved, and the underpowered RAs fixed.
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Rollie
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- #48
Savages i agree with, but healers?
I dont see whats overpowered about my healer, The only CC i have single mezz+stun which are both baseline.
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old.Ramas
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- #49
If sorceror cc wasn't crap, healers would be refered to as sorcerors-in-chain.
In terms of appropriateness there was more justification for old smite clerics in a world without resists than there can be for modern pac healers.
Yes, they are are mid's primary cc, and mid does need primary cc. The problem is that primary cc spellcasting, if it is to be that powerful, should not be on a priest class. Unless you would prefer to bring smite up to wizard fire levels, and duid dots/pets up to cabalist levels; which I don't think would be wise.
I wasn't refering to your other lines, which are fine.
I'm not claiming that mid is overpowered as it stands, which, except when you can get perfect healer/savage groups together it isn't imo. I making the point that balance in Midgard has always been achieved (or not) by mixing gimp classes with overpowered classes. This is not ideal for Midgard, and it is not ideal for the other realms either.
In terms of appropriateness there was more justification for old smite clerics in a world without resists than there can be for modern pac healers.
Yes, they are are mid's primary cc, and mid does need primary cc. The problem is that primary cc spellcasting, if it is to be that powerful, should not be on a priest class. Unless you would prefer to bring smite up to wizard fire levels, and duid dots/pets up to cabalist levels; which I don't think would be wise.
I wasn't refering to your other lines, which are fine.
I'm not claiming that mid is overpowered as it stands, which, except when you can get perfect healer/savage groups together it isn't imo. I making the point that balance in Midgard has always been achieved (or not) by mixing gimp classes with overpowered classes. This is not ideal for Midgard, and it is not ideal for the other realms either.
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Rollie
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- #50
Well we all know smite needs help arindra, the line is crap and totally useless in terms of the clerics role in rvr, there should be a single/aoe insta mezz in the clerics smite line similar to that of the pac healers.
Pac healers are very good yes, and i would say probably the best single support class in the game, but there will always be a best support class, imho bring the others up to par, the druid on the other hand is a very nice support class also, the druid pet even if its grey con interupts me, they have access to insta single/aoe root as well as being a primary buffer and having a healing line.
Dont forget the healer augmentation line is very poor in its current state, most of the line is self buffs, conc based haste doesnt work on savages, and since h2h savages usually cap swing speed celerity is pretty much useless also, and especially since the range on celerity is very short and to get it off you have to be almost next to the tanks which isnt very useful.
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Loveless
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- #51
Agree
But albs cant be doing with that
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Ilur_oom
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- #52
Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
tbh who needs ras when u have savages, healers, shamans ?
give you bof+sos in every 15 min if u give alb that 3 classes =)
have fun
Originally posted by Rollie
I think kids and crack cocaine is a bad mixture, but thats just me
Mid RA's have always been lacking in comparison to the other realms
Mid - ichor, PR
Alb Faith Heal, BoF, SoS, VP
Hib - BAoD, GP, TF, Valewalkers RA
tbh who needs ras when u have savages, healers, shamans ?
give you bof+sos in every 15 min if u give alb that 3 classes =)
have fun
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Rollie
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- #53
Re: Re: Re: Mid RA's... Overpowered?
Despite what you think. if we come up against good hib/alb groups and they have your instas/ra's up we need ours up.
I have run in many "perfect" middy groups and hibby groups can certainly counter us, albs have it a bit tougher but BF/TB always make us use RA's/Instas.
Despite what you think. if we come up against good hib/alb groups and they have your instas/ra's up we need ours up.
I have run in many "perfect" middy groups and hibby groups can certainly counter us, albs have it a bit tougher but BF/TB always make us use RA's/Instas.
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old.Ramas
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- #54
This argument I read as saying 'it's ok for the priest orthognal line to be caster calibre in each realm'. It's certainly one option, but we have recognise that the uber survivability of priest classes means that it's a significant issue when we each choose one orthogonal caster calibre spell line to combine with that survivability, and it would have a massive effect on each realm.
If clerics had a primary nuke line (or as you suggest a cc/nuke caster line, making smite look a lot like a light eldritch), and druids had a primary dot/pet line (cabbie style), I'd absolutely agree that this would provide realm balance.
However, in effect it would also mean every realm would need 2 or 3 primary priests to compete, just as mid has strong preference for such groups today. Certain other classes would begin to look gimped in comparison, and all realms would be afflicted with Midgard's curse of being a mix of uber and gimp classes.
This would be all very nice for me, but I suspect those without level 50 priests might feel less than enamoured
.As for healer Aug, I agree it's weaker than druid/cleric counterparts, but the case is often overstated (ithe real disparity that prevents Aug speccing is Aug vs Pac imo) the only critical buffs that are placed elsewhere in mid are DEX/QUI and INT, in return you get damage add, haste, and "caster" speed. Personally, I think all the priest buff lines need a rework to make them more 'active'. Through that process it woudln't be unreasonable to seek healer consideration if Pac had been 'retuned' in line with Smite and Nature.
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Rollie
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- #55
Originally posted by old.Ramas
This argument I read as saying 'it's ok for the priest orthognal line to be caster calibre in each realm'. It's certainly one option, but we have recognise that the uber survivability of priest classes means that it's a significant issue when we each choose one orthogonal caster calibre spell line to combine with that survivability, and it would have a massive effect on each realm.
If clerics had a primary nuke line (or as you suggest a cc/nuke caster line, making smite look a lot like a light eldritch), and druids had a primary dot/pet line (cabbie style), I'd absolutely agree that this would provide realm balance.
However, in effect it would also mean every realm would need 2 or 3 primary priests to compete, just as mid has strong preference for such groups today. Certain other classes would begin to look gimped in comparison, and all realms would be afflicted with Midgard's curse of being a mix of uber and gimp classes.
This would be all very nice for me, but I suspect those without level 50 priests might feel less than enamoured
As for healer Aug, I agree it's weaker than druid/cleric counterparts, but the case is often overstated (ithe real disparity that prevents Aug speccing is Aug vs Pac imo) the only critical buffs that are placed elsewhere in mid are DEX/QUI and INT, in return you get damage add, haste, and "caster" speed. Personally, I think all the priest buff lines need a rework to make them more 'active'. Through that process it woudln't be unreasonable to seek healer consideration if Pac had been 'retuned' in line with Smite and Nature.
Thing is arindra, your saying cause healers have best CC line in game on priest class then smite clerics should have wizard nukes etc, but what you dont say is that if a healer specs high pac+mend they have NO damage output, if you put a clerics nukes to wizards value they would have access to heals+stun+wizard nukes+lower spec buffs so they would be pretty much the same as pre 1.50 smite clerics when most ppl had poor resists and the smite clerics were extremely overpowered. The druid nurture line has a dot/pet/2 insta cc so thats quite good in itself imho.
Also a cleric with 50 reju has more surviveability than me with 50 mend due to clerics have access to AP as well, hopefully smite does get some much needed love, imho they should totally rework smite to be more "support" based.
At the end of the day, mythic made an error putting damage specs on a support class, as long as one class is the best, others will compare there classes to it and ask the best class to be nerfed, im sure savages will be raped by nerfs, then another tank class will takes its place as the best and i guarentee ppl will cry nerf to that also. Its a continous circle that will always exist.
Exscuse any spelling errors, i have lots of stitches in my fingers
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Begach
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- #56
It's hard to judge. As has been said by teh l33t of mid, mid RA's are for when the group fucks up. They don't need em to win. BoF, SoS, GP blah blah are RA's that are part of a winning stratergy and NEEDED to win.
Says alot about relative realm strengths when an RA is your only way of winning v's an RA x 3 to be used only when and if you fuck up.
At the moment mid fg (8) is about equal to alb fg (8) + RA's. Mid fg (11 3xPR) is far stronger than anything alb or hib can field, RA's up or not.
It has alot more to do with realm strength and less to do with RA's imo. If you removed all RA's a fg hib/albs have little to no chance v's a mid tank group. That to me is a bigger issue that tied into RA's becomes a joke.
B.
Says alot about relative realm strengths when an RA is your only way of winning v's an RA x 3 to be used only when and if you fuck up.
At the moment mid fg (8) is about equal to alb fg (8) + RA's. Mid fg (11 3xPR) is far stronger than anything alb or hib can field, RA's up or not.
It has alot more to do with realm strength and less to do with RA's imo. If you removed all RA's a fg hib/albs have little to no chance v's a mid tank group. That to me is a bigger issue that tied into RA's becomes a joke.
B.
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Rollie
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- #57
Against good groups WE do need them to win, especially good hibby groups, even using all insta's/RA's VGN/LA/IG are more than capable of winning, albs do get it tougher though, but i can assure you vs the good alb groups ive had to use all my insta's/ra's so i think this statement is incorrect.
ok lets just get one thing straight, most alb groups have 2 clerics, some have 3, that is 2-3 BoFs, most mid groups have 2-3 healers, this is 2-3 PR's, BoF is a much better RA than PR, pr is a situational RA that also costs 4 more points that BoF.
Ask any mid what he would rather have 2-3 BoFs or 2-3 PR's
hibby can definately compete with middy, they can field 3 druids, 1 bard and have room for 4 pure tanks, thats something middy cannot do, albion does need help though with the much needed albion skills spread across so many classes.
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Carlos Bananos
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- #58
honestly, you can't say mid is uber because you set up shit groups.
a mid grp will only have 3x PR if they have 3x healers, 3xbof is far better than 3x pr....using bof your healers wouldn't die in the 1st place, use pr and they come back sure...with 125 dex (gogo 4s spreadheals) 1300hp (3-4s to take down from an assist team...if that).
so i'd trade my pr for bof any day of the week.
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old.Ramas
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- #59
In a balanced group I've never been convinced by the argument that caster calibre spells are in some way more acceptable on a priest if they happen to do no direct damage.
Heals are a special case everyone accepts being on an armoured class because heals are exactly equal and serve an important role in extending the duration of battles.
Buffs are ok on any class because they are not active abilities, so the specific class they appear on does not affect realm balance (assuming they take up space and/or spec points on a character's overall ability list of course).
Anything else though, is an active ability that is not uniform across the realms and is going to swing battles while the caster reamins alive; so if it's a caster calibre spell, it shouldn't, in my opinion, be on a priest class with our extra HPs, armour, and shield (and lets be clear, it's this that means the spell lines need to be balanced lower than pure casters, not the simple fact that we can heal).
I might also add, that like many clerics, I don't even have the smite DD on a quickbar - so in effect I have exactly the same damage as a healer.
Finally, we should note that clerics do not on the whole buy AP, since we can't cast while under attack, or do significant damage under any circumstances, so we still need rescuing, and instas are enough to buy us a few extra seconds to get help.
An interesting principle, but what do you view as 'support' abilities, other than cc, heals, and buffs?
Maybe a full set of caster calibre aoe debuffs and pbt (ouch)?
And if clerics/druids were to get such abilities, would it not have the effect I mentioned above, where, because priests would have 3 caster calibre lines, several of them would be needed in every group to compete, and we land alb and hib with the same problem mid has?
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Rollie
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- #60
The only CC i have on my qbar is single stun/mezz, every other spell is either a heal or RA
I cant cast while under attack either, i dont have MoC yet, i have no insta CC, i need rescuing. Insta stun/aoe stun is almost useless vs tanks they hit you, you insta stun them and start to turn and they hit you again, most healers dont spec 48 pac for the last insta stun due to it being worthless due to determination. For defence healers rely on other healers which is why you see 2-3 in each group.
druids nurture line is fine imho, its support, they have 2 insta cc, baseline root, and a pet to interupt enemy casters.
smite needs a rework, single/aoe insta mezz around the same as pac, maybe a damage shield/Damage add(already in smite), i guess it would be up to mythic to add more suport to that line.