MaX-Packets --Cheat-!!!!!!

[old.dredded]

Just played a nice game on barrys public ctf server,,
That was fun,,??

3 Guys from same clan Owned,!!

LOL,,They were all on Max_packets 100 and timenudge -20.

If ReQ? ,,GibZZ,, Arcon or anyone says this is not a Cheat ,,

Then there F##kiN STUPID OR NUTS,,Maybe Both ??..

FFs ,, Barrys Lower the Max_packets on the Servers.

And while were at it ,,Remove the Timenudge!!!

 

[Chameleon]

Some people have tested this theory and came to the conclusion that there's not much in it. The fact is tho, you only have to play on a server like you have jd to see/feel it's real. Coming up against a maxpackets 100 certainly results in momentary freezes just as you get to within the same room as them.
Personally I think timenudge is a good thing if used properly. For example, I use -15 which from my perspective brings things kinda back into line with real time, i.e. I can aim a lot more AT a player and hit them, rather than guessing where they are going to be. Trouble is, there are many people out there who will not stop at much in the pursuit of out-lagging others. The recent trend i've noticed on the bw ctf servers is to use -25 timenudge, which for 40 pingers is a tad excessive imo and simply makes them appear to lag like they are a 56k'er. If everyone stuck to a sensible level and only used it to try and 'realign' their ping, we'd all be fine. Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way.
The thing that amuses me most is 20 pingers, with timenudge -25, maxpackets 100, who actually think they suddenly became elite when they changed their connection. You have to laugh AND NO! IM NOT BITTER

btw, if your not using timenudge, try 'cg_smoothclients 1', which adds extra player prediction to try and counter the effects of different players connections. Not to be used in conjuction with a negative timenudge, but can work well if you not into nudging.

 

[Sar]

Oh dear.

Maxpackets 100 is NOT A CHEAT.

You'll find most clan players use 100 maxpackets because it offers a smoother game on broadband, and timenudge offers a slight advantage over normal due to the prediction it offers to try and compensate for ping.

Although why most broadbanders insist on using timenudge equal to their 20 pings is beyond me...

 

[old.dredded]

errrrr??

It's Not a cheat,,Trust me it is!!!!.

If its not a cheat why would u use it and own the server.
Everyone knows it just screws up your conn,,how come u dont
???????????.

Try UiQ,, if u want a Fair and Honest Server to play ON,!!
Max Packets 60 ..

......
Errrrr,,Q3,,Sar ?? u do play it dont U ?? :

 

[Sar]

dredded you patently haven't the first friggin clue about q3 netcode (or the english language) do you?

100 Maxpackets IS NOT CHEATING. FFS.

If it is then why is it not clamped by the Q3 exe file?

If it is then why do all Barrys leagues permit 100 maxpax?

If it is then why does my conn in games affect precisely bugger all people?

Get a clue.

PS: You only need one ! or ? after a sentence, unless you're JeffK.

 

[Chameleon]

I wouldn't call it cheating, as it's a legitimate setting within the boundary's of the games default settings. However, people with high bandwith connections do have an effect on others. You can feel it. It's very bad on ISDN, got marginally better on adsl, but does not exist when playing on a LAN. Attacks from a high bandwith user with an lg or pg can result in a complete freeze of your screen from the moment you enter the room with them, until your dead on the floor, with zero response from your own conn to try and fight back. It all happens in a blur of confusion, which doesn't appear correctly at the time but settles down once your dead on the floor. It appears almost like packet loss, where you appear to miss a whole section of the action, but is not pl.
It can be better if these high bandwith users turned their setting down, which is what I guess your getting at jd ...... but why would they do that when they can lag you to death without even trying
I fully admit that isdn'ers are significantly easier to kill since I got adsl, particularly with lg and pg ...... but you rarely get cm'ers or those with even better conns to admit that it's anything but elite skillz
I can't beleive anyone could have missed the mass of players who switched to broadband and suddenly went from division4 material, to division 1/2. Those with adsl in particular get only marginally better pings than isdn, yet score twice as much.

"Damn those isdn'ers suck, I mustve been the only decent one when I had it". I can hear them now

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon
I can't beleive anyone could have missed the mass of players who switched to broadband and suddenly went from division4 material, to division 1/2. Those with adsl in particular get only marginally better pings than isdn, yet score twice as much.

That's because

1) Q3 lies about ping (it says I have a ping of 50, it's really about 35 or so).

2) BB connex gives a smoother connection regardless of ping - it's all bandwidth babeh! And a smoother conn is far far easier to play on than jumpy jerky ISDN.

Like I said before, people who have problems playing with broadbanders have a shite connection to begin with, and whinging to bb-ers to reduce their maxpax to some mythical "safe" level makes you no better than modemers who whine about lag and ping whores.

100 maxpax merely makes the bb players connex smoother. It has negligible if any effect on anyone else on the server.

Funny how no-one ever has this problem in RA3 ain't it?

Wanna know why? Cos there's no way of checking other players maxpax settings in RA3. This problem is all in peoples heads - it's their connection that's playing up and 100 maxpax makes a convenient scapegoat.

 

[Sar]

Here's a post by Gibz on XSR (That's XS Reality Dredded, a popular website in case you were wondering ):

Hiyas, good to see that testing I did was read by someone hehe http://www.gibz.nildram.co.uk/maxpax.html

I did actually do another test after that after reading some Clanbase testing about how maxpackets affects other players... http://www.gibz.nildram.co.uk/maxpackets_test.jpg that graph showed traffic received while the other client varied his maxpackets to see if it affected my own traffic, ie was he lagging me out with his settings...the two "humps" are diff settings at mp 30 and 100, and really there was no discernable difference. This actually was totally opposite to Clanbases findings which I found a bit "curious" to say the least and could not duplicate whatever the other tester had found, maybe someone else could do some testing to try and sort that one out.

All of that doesn't really prove anything, just maybe adds a tad of weight to the maxpackets argument that imo anything is acceptable, I always used to play with maxpackets 100 on ISDN, so my argument was why can't anyone else apart from modemers. It does depend on your framerate as shown tho, so whilst people were calling me for using maxpackets 100, I was in reality at times only sending 60 depending on my com_maxfps I would vary, and most other ISDNers not using default were using values of around the 60 mark as well. None of this means that there isn't "some" oddities happening in the Q3 netcode, only the coders might be able to figure out if its possible.

I think one of the things that annoyed me just seems to be the arbitrary choosing of a setting. Ie for those who don't have powerful pc's, there are actually very good reasons for using maxfps 76, make maxpackets capped at 60, and they are effectively forced to 38fps updates. I would personally suggest if its gonna be capped, cap it at 76.

See?

 

[Chameleon]

That's all very well, but other players connections DO effect you. You can't deny it when you experience it, day in, day out. It's convincing those with the 'innocent' high bandwith connections that is impossible. Regardless of whatever tesing people have tried to do, the proof is in the pudding. The only players to have this effect on others are those with high bandwith. Coincidence? I don't think so.
My adsl is the best that money can buy imho (nildram), so it can't be put down to people's 'poor conns'.
Take that recent pathetic bitching thread on QN recently regarding the TS/NEO game. A team of players there who would normally be regarded as 'high bandwith' players (presumably the kind that would normally deny the existence of this phenomemememomomomom), suddenly find themselves up against very high bandwith users and comment upon "freezes as we entered midfield". Shock, horror! Welcome to our world!

This discussion is much like "Should the bfg be removed?" or "Is camping a valid tactic?" ...... i.e. you will never get people to agree on it, or ever find the true answer.
It's sounds arrogant I know, but it wouldn't matter how many tests people did to try and quantify the effect (or otherwise) of players conns on others, the fact is that these 'freezes in action, mess of activity and then instant death' occur every day, are real, only occur vs high bandwith users and mirraculously disappear on the lan.

 

[Sar]

Then how come it never happens in RA3?

 

[Chameleon]

It does. What gave the idea it didnt?

 

[Sar]

Cos no-one's ever complained ever on an ra3 server that I've been on about maxpax settings.

And that is a shitload of time spent on ra3 servers.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon
Take that recent pathetic bitching thread on QN recently regarding the TS/NEO game. A team of players there who would normally be regarded as 'high bandwith' players (presumably the kind that would normally deny the existence of this phenomemememomomomom), suddenly find themselves up against very high bandwith users and comment upon "freezes as we entered midfield". Shock, horror! Welcome to our world!

Of course, if you take time out to watch the demos, there is nothing of the sort going on. No-one freezes up, and the "very high bandwidth" users have an average ping 3 lower than the other team's. It's simply a case of a top division clan trying to pass the blame, as usual.

 

[Chameleon]

hm, you often don't see most connection problems in demos tbh ..... but I that's not to say that they aren't moaning f'ks

 

[Sar]

I find quite a few "good" clans are moaning fucks.

Unfortunately :/

 

[old.[gX.POrN]]

sighs

sad but true

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Porno!

 

[old.dredded]

Errrrrr,??

I dont wish to get into another slanging match with u sar,
But im afraid i dissagree with pretty much everything u say.

Also i dissagree with GibZZ in some things he said about
a guy who has a isdn conn ,,has as much chance as a guy on cable,or adsl. ( Errrrr sorry GiBBzz )

He might have the Numbers and the nice pictures in front of him as evidence but when u play the game its something else.
And before u say its yer cfg,, Mines excellent and fully tweeked.


And about Moaning F##ks ? ,,i dont really moan to much as a rule.
But i like to speak My mind .(appologies in advance if this offends anyone)

I dont like it when u get a real good player who likes to bend the rules a little bit more, and cycles his timenudge when he goes to the flag.
And errrmm.?? if the guy is reading this ,,he better stop (not nice)
Or is it legal in barrys servers,, ?????
cus if it is ill write a nice script and pass it to all the clans and everyone can use it.?? Maybe u might know the rule on that one sar??..>>(someone ,,? anyone )

And the Max_packets rule.? wazzup ??
isnt 60 Max-packets enough for ya ??.
Its enough for me ,,why not U ???

And if u gonna tell me theres no diff,when u play against somebody on 100 mp and 100 fps ,, against a guy whos on 40 packets and 120 fps ,>>?? then your a Liar !!!!!!!
or u never played q3 in yer life, (FACT)

Sorry for being a Little blunt

 

[Sar]

Re: Errrrrr,??

Originally posted by dredded
And the Max_packets rule.? wazzup ??
isnt 60 Max-packets enough for ya ??.
Its enough for me ,,why not U ???

Because I don't have a shite connection. (FACT)

Originally posted by dredded
And if u gonna tell me theres no diff,when u play against somebody on 100 mp and 100 fps ,, against a guy whos on 40 packets and 120 fps ,>>?? then your a Liar !!!!!!!
or u never played q3 in yer life, (FACT)

You clearly haven't a clue (or a decent connection). One or the other...

Been playing long?

 

[old.Explosive23]

Is there something wrong with your , key? Lol, Sar's been playing for ages.. he's a fucking muppet too (jk Sar).

 

[old.dredded]

Long time

Yep sorry to tell u this ,

But i been here a long time on q3,, a lot longer than most.
Probably a lot longer than U sar? dunno?

And i never really liked unreal or lame games u play sar.

I never liked anything but q3.
and my conns sweet.:

Tks Nildram

 

[Sar]

Re: Long time

Originally posted by dredded
Yep sorry to tell u this ,

But i been here a long time on q3,, a lot longer than most.
Probably a lot longer than U sar? dunno?

And i never really liked unreal or lame games u play sar.

Clearly completely and utterly clueless.



Define "a long time" - a year?

Oh and what clans have you played for btw, cos I've never heard of you tbh.

 

[old.dredded]

LOOOOOOOL

If it helps U Sar, then >

ive been playing q3 since quake3 Beta 1.03
I played pretty much every single day,
For all of those early years i have been playing q3
6 to 8 hours every night.
For the last 2 years i kinda eased off a little
and now i only play the odd hour here and there.
So im kinda rusty.

Havn't really played in too many clans.
But it was never my fault i think, it took me all these years just to get a
broadband conn,I got ADSL a month ago, Kinda weird everyone was allways one Connection ahead of me..lol

I played with steveyT alot.
We were in the same clan together for a while.
I Played against most the Bop, and a lot more peeps including some div1 players.
I Played against ch@meleon a lot.
Hes a damn fine player and would Kick my asssss from one of the map to the other.
Right Ch@m,,looooooool??????

I help run a clan, there div4 but are doing pretty good.
I try to help some of the other clans out giving help and advice when ever i can.
I help them with there cfg's etc and OSP settings
I like giving them a cfg just like yours sar.
i Dunno if it helps but i try.
But i have great fun helping them and watching them turn into future Sars?

I prefer to be in a clan with a just ordinary people who have
no chance against the guys at the top of the league's.
I try to give them a chance to enjoy this game
as much as i have.
I try to show them that the Sar's of this world are just a nobody after all.
That u are nothing more than target practice and that u anyt that special after all.!!!!

I dont wanna be in a clan Just for the name alone like some people.
I personally dont like people who suk up to the peeps at the top
and think there so great when there not.
Blokey is Great, I seen him play and hes amazing, I got every respect for him.

In my book u have to deserve the respect u get and Im sure u deserved yours Sar,??
i Just wish u wernt suck a Prick at the job U do here.!!! and put everyone down.
Shame That? -- Dunno why u do it.?

If we meet sometime , Im sure with all that those great
clans u played for, You will kick my assssss..>> LOOOOOOOOOOL

But np,,i met Blokey a few times, Luckily for me i kicked his ass
a lot more than he Kicked mine, Personally I think he was pissed at the time ).

But errrr,, I guess u would say I izz a crap player in yer books..)

That enough for ya, ?? or do u want My tel Number as well??





and errrrr,, U iZ right Sar,, U iZ Clueless..!!!!!!!!

 

[Chameleon]

hehe, you always crack me up JD

 

[Sar]

I don't put ordinary people down here, just people that get on like wankers, because I find that 100% of the time they fully deserve it.

And yes, I have been playing for longer than you.

Any respect I may have, I've gotten from helping people out regularly on the Wireplay forums and on here, by running numerous leagues and competitions for UK/Euro players, and by playing regularly in most gametypes (TDM, RA3, CPMA, CTF & Insta), as I said mostly at a Div 1/2 standard. I've always played in clans with people I've been mates with for ages, so any inferences that I'm a glory hunter just because I play at a fairly high-ish level are wasted.

 

[old.dredded]

)

U really had a good time on q3 i think sar,?
so dont put the Little guy down all the time.

Theres no need for it.?

I dont wanna start a Slanging match with u all the time i post here

But try to show a little respect for others, Barrys is for all
not just u or the Div1 players.

U wanna be a Moderator on this forum then do it the right way,?
Dont think its up to me to show u yer mistakes.

Why dont u try to help a div4 team instead of telling everyone
how great u are.
U took a Lot from q3,,time to put some of it Back, U 2 Ch@m)

And Ch@m I got adsl ,,Paybacks a Bitch ..LOooOL
Just Kidding Buddy

 

[old.venturer01]

why set cl_maxpackets at 100 anyway

 

[Sar]

Cos it feels superior (to say 50 maxpackets) when you're playing on broadband.

And Dredded wtf are you on about? Where did I ever put down "the lower division players" or infer I had no respect for them?

Anyway as for your wittering on about "telling everyone how great I am", please don't even start me, I never do. It was a direct response to your own "or u never played q3 in yer life, (FACT)" statement. So please stop acting like a victim.

 

[Chameleon]

btw JD, in a clan match on sunday I noticed the savage server enforce their settings of maximum cl_maxpackets 60. I usually play cl_maxpackets 71, com_maxfps 142 ........ so being forced to mp 60 put my maxfps out of sync with the mpackets ...... so I changed to cl_maxpackets 50 and com_maxfps 150 (50 still being a divisor of 150) and it seemed to run really smooth. I do personally believe that mp100 has a negative effect on others, but the only thing you can do to counter this is to ensure that you get the best throughput from your connection, which to me seems only possible to achieve by maximising your fps, capping com_maxfps at one of the 'magic' figures and then making your maxpackets a divisor of that com_maxfps. I think this is the best way to try and protect yourself from the mp100 brigade. Also, you could try cl_maxpackets 30, which 'sometimes' is so different to mp100 that the two kinda cancel each other out. That said, mp30 is almost as lame as mp100 imho and makes you almost as bad as them, so this needs to be considered against your own principles of course
It's also wise to do /players on osp servers and make sure you cl_timenudge is set as high as the highest setting other uses have. Otherwise they end up warping past you and out the base as you put 5 rails thru their head and dont register any of them. We played a game last week where we could not work out why we were missing so much. We realised 4 of their 5 players were using tnudge -25 ....... when we changed to the same, we could not miss! The change was truly eye opening.

I do try to help ppl out btw ....... on here when people moan about things like, erm, maxpackets 100 and loads of other forums, irc and on the q3 servers. I try to put back what I get out ............. which in theory ought to be reducing as my enjoyment of q3 goes down! I find I don't enjoy it so much these days. Unfortunately the lame twats outway the good people in q3 now, whereas it used to be the other way around

 

[Chameleon]

lol, nothing like a couple of q3 forum moderators to ruin a potentially funny thread