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[maxi]

We should see the US changing its mind about pollution fairly soon anyway. There is a growing movement which believes that God left us in charge of the Earth, and if we don't look after it, he'll be really fucked off. Since the Bible belt evangelicals are a large block of votes, it should cause a major shakeup.

Pah. Don't you know It's all over for us when the jews rebuild their temple in palestine anyway?? I'm a acountin on The Rapture because i really can't afford the repayments on my washing machine.

 

[Will]

I hope your washing machine is rated A for efficency.

 

[maxi]

I hope your washing machine is rated A for efficency.

I pump water through an SUV. Sparkling results!

 

[Chilly]

It isn't so simple though. A car using an alternative fuel just moves the point of co2 emission somewhere else. Use an hybrid car, that needs charging with electricity/hydrogen - both of those need to be manufactured. A hydrogen car still requires that the hydrogen be produced - which consumes energy.

Public transport is a big con as well. Have you ever stood behind a bus and felt able to breathe deeply? Trains are less fuel efficient than the equivalent car journies, even when the train is full. They're all filthy things. Want to reduce congestion? Build more roads ffs.

I'm sick and tired of being told how to live my life by well-meaning but hypocritical yoghurt-knitters in the green parties. Some of them would, I feel, rather see the human race revert to an Agrarian society. Well fuck them, they can scrabble around in the dirt like the 'bloody peasant' in Monty Python's Holy Grail, I'll be more than happy with my 40 inch LCD and my TVR.

I was talking about the hybrid cars that use downhill and stopping energy to charge batteries that power an electric motor, thus improving the overall efficieny of the engine in terms of petrol in movement out. They do not need charging or dual fuel. By the end of the century I rekon we'll have decent fusion power anyway, and once we have The Technology for fusion none of any of this pile of shit will mean anything (especially since we'll all be dead before they can implement the technology )

 

[Trem]

Ah. yes. that was Horizon wasn't it? It was interesting, but I'm afraid I won't take your one line memory of a sensationalist 'documentry' as valid proof. Sorry. I will, look into it though. Didn't horizon also try and scare us at the propsetc of SUPER TSUNAMIS the ize of mountains or someshite? Prefacing everything they put forward with COULD HAPPEN lest they be ravaged by people who deal in reality over hyperbole?

That was to do with the chunk of rock that could fall in the Canary Islands....I think. I think if that did happen then there would be a huge wave sailing towards America.

All ifs and buts I guess.

 

[Deebs]

That was to do with the chunk of rock that could fall in the Canary Islands....I think. I think if that did happen then there would be a huge wave sailing towards America.

All ifs and buts I guess.

And that is a bad thing?

 

[Ukle]

Yes as not many people live at ground level on the US East Coast but lots do in the West Indies / South America.

Anyway that original analysis of the mountain in the Canaries has been proven to be flawed and it wont break off on one piece and cause the problems first thought.

 

[Deebs]

Well you said America

 

[Tom]

Where do you get your 23% of 3% from? The US produced 25% of the worlds CO2 emmisions in 1996

I'm trying to find the original source, but many people seem to think that humanity is responsible for all the world's co2.

IIRC, the actual level of total human co2 is about 3%, and its of that 3% that the US is responsible for 25%.

IIRC (again), vehicles are responsible for about 0.6% of all co2 emissions. Excuse me if I don't recoil in horror.

 

[Tom]

I was talking about the hybrid cars that use downhill and stopping energy to charge batteries that power an electric motor, thus improving the overall efficieny of the engine in terms of petrol in movement out. They do not need charging or dual fuel. By the end of the century I rekon we'll have decent fusion power anyway, and once we have The Technology for fusion none of any of this pile of shit will mean anything (especially since we'll all be dead before they can implement the technology )

These vehicles can only use braking force to charge the battery. There isn't any such thing as a free ride unfortunately.

I agree that a vehicle using engine braking to charge batteries does seem like a good plan, but you have to consider that batteries tend to be heavy, full of nasty chemicals, and don't have a particularly long shelf life. Compared to an Aluminium or Iron engine block that can be melted down again and again, and also easily last 500 000 miles, electric cars don't seem that great to me.

 

[Ch3tan]

The point is that we are adding extra emissions that (might) not occur otherwise. Thats is fucking up the way the world works, and at the end of the day it will have a negative effect on us.

Seems like a good enough reason to try and do something about it to me.

 

[Tom]

My point is though that the science behind any of this is unproven. We have lots of evidence, lots of misleading findings, lots of conjecture, but nobody has yet been able to point at the sky and say 'that am getting hotter because of us'.

Like anything in life, the truth of the matter probably lies somewhere inbetween the two poles of opinion. Can you imagine if we'd have been knocking about 100 000 years ago, and the ice-age was dawning? People would have been blaming all kinds of things, and not really paying attention to the fact that we're sat on a whacking great big rock, the biggest influence upon which is a massive ball of rather hot hydrogen gas 90 odd million miles away.

 

[Bodhi]

Right lets simplify this.

Global Warming = warmer, better weather.

Man = not significant enough to have an impact on this.


And finally

If you = someone living somewhere at threat from rising sea levels, then move somewhere else. This is hardly rocket science.

Now seriously folks, lets stop pissing about with stuff we can't control and spend the money on stuff we can, like poverty, disease and getting me a Clio V6. All 3 of these will make the world a better place.

Basically, if you think we're causing Global Warming, you're wrong. I'd suggest shutting up and producing a little less CO2.

 

[maxi]

My point is though that the science behind any of this is unproven. We have lots of evidence, lots of misleading findings, lots of conjecture, but nobody has yet been able to point at the sky and say 'that am getting hotter because of us'.

I think the reason for this is mainly becauce countries like America plain refuse to accept that humans cause global warming. Most scientists accept we probably do, but I think a lot of them now are trying to bring round the USA without directly disagreeing with their position. 99% belief isn't rnough in science anyway, is it?

Anyway that original analysis of the mountain in the Canaries has been proven to be flawed and it wont break off on one piece and cause the problems first thought.

*another gasp* Horizon, full of shit? Well I never did! I must of missed the program where they said "Sorry. We were wrong about nearly everything in the following episodes of Last years series of Horizon. 1, 3,4,5,6, and 7. We are still in legal dispute over 2"

I stopped liking Horizon when I grew out of X-Files. Last week.

 

[nath]

I stopped liking Horizon when they said "Cold Fusion is bollocks. We tried it and it didn't work."

 

[Chilly]

These vehicles can only use braking force to charge the battery. There isn't any such thing as a free ride unfortunately.

I agree that a vehicle using engine braking to charge batteries does seem like a good plan, but you have to consider that batteries tend to be heavy, full of nasty chemicals, and don't have a particularly long shelf life. Compared to an Aluminium or Iron engine block that can be melted down again and again, and also easily last 500 000 miles, electric cars don't seem that great to me.

fiar enough, I don't claim to be an expert in these technologies, but I suspect this kind of car will become more common and more efficient as the technology gets billions of monies poured into it from governernments and OilCos trying to cash in etc.

~shakes fist as slowmo fusion progress~

 

[Ormorof]

I'm trying to find the original source, but many people seem to think that humanity is responsible for all the world's co2.

IIRC, the actual level of total human co2 is about 3%, and its of that 3% that the US is responsible for 25%.

IIRC (again), vehicles are responsible for about 0.6% of all co2 emissions. Excuse me if I don't recoil in horror.

0.6% doesnt sound like alot but....thats around 22,000,000,000 metric tons at the 1991 level, now consider this has been rising pretty rapidly especially in recent years and you kinda put it into perspective

the environment is very delicate to such changes, yes CO2 emissions are increasing naturally too, but with all the extra being pumped into the atmosphere you have to wonder where does it all go?

where is it coming from? from countries burning cheap fuels such as wood and charcoal, and where are they getting this wood from? from the forests that are keeping CO2 levels relatively low

now call me a tree hugger all you like but its pretty excessive

for every gallon of petrol used 19lbs of CO2 is produced and released into the atmosphere (and petrol is relatively clean compared to coal or wood), now consider that china's economy is booming and theres plenty of coal there, this could lead to an even bigger rise in CO2 emissions....

just a tidbit i found:

Amounts of CO2 produced from different sources used to produce 1 kwh (kilowatt hour) electricity are:

* 2 lbs. CO2 if coal-generated
* 0 lbs. CO2 if hydropower
* 0 lbs. CO2 if nuclear power
* 1.25 lbs. CO2 if natural gas
* 1.7 lbs. CO2 if oil

 

[Chilly]

burning wood has little nt effects on the co2 levels, the co2 you are releaseing when you burn a log or spark up a barbie wasonly scrubbed from the atmosphere a couple of years ago and will in turn get scrubbed again by a new tree, its the fossil fuels which are the problem, where the co2 was scrubbed hundreds of millions of years ago and is now being put back into the atmosphere.

 

[Tom]

the environment is very delicate to such changes

Look I'm not having a go, but you've made that up. You have no idea how susceptible to such changes the environment is. Nobody does.