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[Ukle]

Nuclear Fission isn't a feasable option though as we are running out of Uranium, at our present rate of consumption the estimate is we enough for the next 80~ years, so building more reactors and increasing the demand isn't feasable.

The only long term options to providing energy have to be renewable or from a source where we have a near limitless supply. The best hope we have is Nuclear Fussion whether it be conventional reactors or cold fussion. Cold fussion has been proven to be possible, but at the moment requires more energy in than is returned although it is very early stages and can hope with refinement it becomes a viable energy source.

All the renewable sources will probably never provide enough energy for our needs even if everywhere sensible had windfarms, all houses had solar panels and tidal barrages were on all the large estuaries.

As for the Greens getting upset about more nuclear fission reactors, they will get upset about any form of elctrical generation it seems, going on what Greenpeace said about the building of the 1st nuclear fussion powerplant.

 

[Tom]

since, even though it is published on Indymedia, H. Sterling Burnett is funded by Exxon.

I'm too lazy to do any more this evening.

Too lazy to notice that Greenpeace are responsible for that site

I'm not having a go at anybody, my views are somewhat biased by the heavy guilt trip that seems to be laid upon anybody who doesn't conform to the unquestionable mantra that climate change seems to have become.

I'm getting tired of ill-informed people telling me my car is 'bad for the environment' and I should use public transport or such, when in reality they're completely wrong. Its not just my car, its the number of people who think that UPVC double glazing is a good thing for the environment. They're all sadly mistaken.

The very same people who want us to reduce co2 emissions object to the building of safe, clean, nuclear power stations, all because they don't like the idea of a big hole somewhere remote and deep with contaminated waste. The same people who want wind farms also happen to be NIMBYs when those same farms are proposed in their back yard.

 

[maxi]

*gasp* its about your car guilt trip? what a suprise!

the rest isn't quite right, you say 'just because' as though the enviromental problems the world has could all be solved so easy. People are worried because it isn't that easy, solutions have drawbacks. People disagree. I don't believe you're talking about the same people, as you say.

 

[Trem]

It does seem that the enviroment type people are gob shites(not anyone here btw).

They are so caring and love their fellow man so much they are busy rioting in Scotland as we speak....you know.....to show how much they care......for the earth......and their brothers and sisters.......but that doesn't include coppers......if you get what I mean.

I may of missed a glaring point but I haven't read through all this thread so feel free to smack my botty if I'm wrong Willeh.

 

[Tom]

*gasp* its about your car guilt trip? what a suprise!

the rest isn't quite right, you say 'just because' as though the enviromental problems the world has could all be solved so easy. People are worried because it isn't that easy, solutions have drawbacks. People disagree. I don't believe you're talking about the same people, as you say.

I'm not at all guilty about my choice of car. If I lived life according to Greenpeace and FotE, it would be about as interesting as licking Snails for a living.

 

[Will]

The anti-capitalists and anarchist groups have a very different agenda from your average member of Greenpeace. Not that I like Greenpeace very much (I left because of their position on GM food, it started to go a bit Daily Mail kneejerk for me).

And it was nearly all locals rioting last night.

 

[tankgirl_ni]

i did spot a few neds on the telly.. any excuse for a good old riot.

 

[Yoni]

I'm not at all guilty about my choice of car. If I lived life according to Greenpeace and FotE, it would be about as interesting as licking Snails for a living.

*Well, it's a bruising shattering ride, But I cannot deny myself this luxury----shimmy shimmy shimmmowwww take me home*

 

[Gumbo]

"We're told cars are wasteful. Wasteful of what? Oil did a lot of good sitting in the ground for millions of years. ...and we're told cars cause pollution. A 100 years ago city streets were ankle deep in horse excrement. What kind of pollution do you want? Would you rather die of cancer at eighty or typhoid fever at nine? Cars have made us richer, freer, happer people. Life is better because of cars. Cars are good."

PJ O'Rourke

 

[dysfunction]

Well by the looks of it Jacques Chirac could wreck the G8 summit. After his criticism of the UK and other countries in public he may well choose to go against anything Blair tries to achieve. He may try to isolate the UK try and create a distance between the UK and the US

So Bush may well follow suit due to the way Chirac presents his views...

Its not easy for these people to agree on things without someone out there trying to sabotage it.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

Well by the looks of it Jacques Chirac could wreck the G8 summit. After his criticism of the UK and other countries in public he may well choose to go against anything Blair tries to achieve. He may try to isolate the UK try and create a distance between the UK and the US

So Bush may well follow suit due to the way Chirac presents his views...

Its not easy for these people to agree on things without someone out there trying to sabotage it.

And ironically how Chirac behaves will be due in part as to whether Paris gets the Olympics in tomorrows vote. If it goes against them he could go completely nuts apparently

RB

 

[maxi]

I'm not at all guilty about my choice of car. If I lived life according to Greenpeace and FotE, it would be about as interesting as licking Snails for a living.

I wasn't implying you were or that you should you be. To clarify. Your opinion is tainted and biased. It seems to be a knee jerk reaction to those who would try and make you feel bad about driving your car. Hence sarcasm. Wheres the thread where we were discussing pseudo science?

Guilt-trips shouldn't come into it if you look at facts. Guilt+Fear are used as tools against the types of people who won't look for 'truths' of their own, or who are unable to do so.

 

[Tom]

Well, talking about facts, heres one:

There is no evidence that conclusively proves man-made global warming is happening.

 

[Moving Target]

Yes, it is probably an unknown alien force causing it. Hell, let's all drive our cars everywhere for the hell of it!

 

[Tom]

Or perhaps its entirely natural fluctuations, solar activity perhaps? Perhaps we're just being slightly arrogant in assuming that the only thing that could cause 'it' is man-made pollution?

I wonder if cavemen during the last ice age were having arguments....

"Dammit Ugh, you've been burning too many fires now look at the fucking weather"

"Oh fuckoff Takita, its your fault for spearing too many cows"

 

[Uncle Sick]

I can't understand how people can be so apathetic and cynical towards an event like this, it's beyond my comprehension. Anybody who criticises ANYTHING that has been achieved today is a complete fucking ****.

Gee... I thought you give a fuck about people you don't know?

Yeah, yeah... flame baiting but whatever. Make up your mind, Mank.

 

[maxi]

Or perhaps its entirely natural fluctuations, solar activity perhaps? Perhaps we're just being slightly arrogant in assuming that the only thing that could cause 'it' is man-made pollution?

I wonder if cavemen during the last ice age were having arguments....

"Dammit Ugh, you've been burning too many fires now look at the fucking weather"

"Oh fuckoff Takita, its your fault for spearing too many cows"

Hilarious.

My question is Why take the risk? When so many scientists believe we ARE responsible for global warming, why not at least try and combat it? Take steps to ensure that If these scientists are correct, in 20-50 years time we haven't fucked ourselves and the climate up irreversibly. I can't help but feel this is all about you and your car. It's a shame because whatever the cause, be it men wanking too much or co2 emissions(read the Independant yesterday? follow that up?) this isssue effects everyone living in the world today.

 

[Ukle]

read the Independant yesterday?

Rofl, sorry but cant exactly picture Tom to be the type who would ever touch the independant let alone read it

The whole issue I have with the people who want us to cut our CO2 emissions is that it probably wont be enough and its far to late. Also there is not a chance in hell of you getting India, China etc to suddenly stop developing and cut there CO2 emissions and without them it would be pointless.

 

[maxi]

How is it Pointless? American produces 23% of the worlds Co2 Emissions. Currently a *lot* more than China(10% ish). Saying it 'might' already be too late is nonsesense. We have to try, surely? What do we stand to lose that's worse than the possible catastrophe we're faced with if we don't do something?

Here we are again going round in circles, as I've already mentioned: some reduction is SOME reduction, it all helps...and other countries may follow suit.

 

[TdC]

Hilarious.

My question is Why take the risk? When so many scientists believe we ARE responsible for global warming, why not at least try and combat it? Take steps to ensure that If these scientists are correct, in 20-50 years time we haven't fucked ourselves and the climate up irreversibly.

because of the filthy lucre involved. ching ching.

 

[maxi]

Naturally!

Secondarily to all this 'there's no proof' well there's also not enoigh Oil to keep us going either! So...we HAVE to look for other energy sources anyway, cos we're running out. Pretty fast.

 

[TdC]

ah, but there are lots of alternate power sources and engines to use them. lots. seen any water-powered cars running lately though? why do you think that is?

 

[Tom]

How is it Pointless? American produces 23% of the worlds Co2 Emissions. Currently a *lot* more than China(10% ish). Saying it 'might' already be too late is nonsesense. We have to try, surely? What do we stand to lose that's worse than the possible catastrophe we're faced with if we don't do something?

Get that right please, IIRC its not 23% its actually 23% of 3%, which is a rather insignificant amount. The US is actually seen by many as being a net absorber or co2 due to large swathes of forests on its eastern coast.

Where is the truth in all of this? I don't know, but I do know that:

a) We can't ruin this planet irreversibly
b) Token co2 reductions cost massively, and won't do shit anyway
c) Most of this is fueled by yoghurt knitting sweater wearing fascists

The thing that gets me is that plants like co2. More plants = less co2 in the atmosphere.

Oh, and I actually do read the Independant when I buy a paper, I certainly don't touch the Guardian though.

 

[Will]

Get that right please, its not 23% its actually 23% of 3%, which is a rather insignificant amount. The US is actually seen by many as being a net absorber or co2 due to large swathes of forests on its eastern coast.

Where is the truth in all of this? I don't know, but I do know that:

a) We can't ruin this planet irreversibly
b) Token co2 reductions cost massively, and won't do shit anyway
c) Most of this is fueled by yoghurt knitting sweater wearing fascists

The thing that gets me is that plants like co2. More plants = less co2 in the atmosphere.

Where do you get your 23% of 3% from? The US produced 25% of the worlds CO2 emmisions in 1996.

As for ruining the planet, I don't care if the planet can cope or not, I'm worried if myself or my kids can cope.

At about this point in your post, I shake my head and give up discussing it. Nothing is going to change your mind apart from actual climate change.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Saint Geldof insisted that the protests would be peaceful, I think he is the only person who actually believed that. The concert will achieve fuck all, the people involved are not moved by such things. It was entertaining though.

I am going to sell my car soon to get a 4WD. I will not be polluting though as I am going to employ poor people to suck the exhaust gases out of the pipe. Therefore saving the planet and providing employment.

 

[maxi]

At about this point in your post, I shake my head and give up discussing it. Nothing is going to change your mind apart from actual climate change.

Why the fuck should Tom care about that! If he's lucky he'll be dead by then anyway!

 

[Trem]

Hilarious.

My question is Why take the risk? When so many scientists believe we ARE responsible for global warming, why not at least try and combat it? Take steps to ensure that If these scientists are correct, in 20-50 years time we haven't fucked ourselves and the climate up irreversibly. I can't help but feel this is all about you and your car. It's a shame because whatever the cause, be it men wanking too much or co2 emissions(read the Independant yesterday? follow that up?) this isssue effects everyone living in the world today.

Getting rid of global warming would fuck us right up. Global warming, smog etc is keeping at bay global dimming. You get rid of one the other will be worse.*






*I'm sure I got the right waya round, it was a long time since I watched the program, need leggy at times like these....he remembers.

 

[maxi]

Ah. yes. that was Horizon wasn't it? It was interesting, but I'm afraid I won't take your one line memory of a sensationalist 'documentry' as valid proof. Sorry. I will, look into it though. Didn't horizon also try and scare us at the propsetc of SUPER TSUNAMIS the ize of mountains or someshite? Prefacing everything they put forward with COULD HAPPEN lest they be ravaged by people who deal in reality over hyperbole?

Neverthe less it's probably worth a brief look. When are we gonna get hit by an asteroid the size of the moon?

Seriously though, it's all about damage limitation at the moment. Stopping things getting worse, by using 'c02 limiting' technology. According to Phony Blair. Ahaha. Christ you can tell im bored of this discussion can't you?

 

[Will]

Why the fuck should Tom care about that! If he's lucky he'll be dead by then anyway!

We should see the US changing its mind about pollution fairly soon anyway. There is a growing movement which believes that God left us in charge of the Earth, and if we don't look after it, he'll be really fucked off. Since the Bible belt evangelicals are a large block of votes, it should cause a major shakeup.

 

[Ukle]

Global dimming is one of the few things that can be proven its just what is causing it that is in question. See this Wiki article for details..

As to its effect on masking the true effects of global warming we dont truely know but the most startling effect occured after 9/11 when the flights were grounded the whole of the US increased by 1 degress on average.

/edited it as thought it was a 3 degree difference but the Wiki says 1 degree and trust the wiki more than i trust my memory