Legion bites the dust

[old.tuppe]

what makes it so only 50 can use it?
at this moment i am doing my epic and saving all drops to 50.
why not save these drops same way and start use at that point?

what was told to me we are there just for fun, ok to me, but after kill legion some funny rules start popping up, -> no drops under 50.
why we under 50 was there only for fun? and 50´s was after items?

its time drop nose little from higher air and look us, worms who run defend keeps, relics when same time 50´s are doing some rp hunt in emain?
they sometimes run thru uppland and yggdra when alliance chat is told odin is nice group alb´s/hib´s?
this is only small part so called 50´s but these are member of small group who think they are so called "realm heroes".

when was talking in guild chat who we vote to get ring, still Adrira is ok!!,
my vote was to Noita, great char and person who are allways hottest places, doing job hour after hour.
many agree this, but ups, she is not 50´s?!

if even once some who has these new drops, use them, and notice they are great items, say
"thanks to all who participate! and i had chance to borrow this item"
its realm property! not item keeper, alliance or guild, its realm!

 

[SFXman]

Yeah... well done but that sword looks so hilarious. Like Yoda's lightsaber or something... if it was as big as regular swords it'd be quite cool , but now you look at it and well.. laugh
Well done again. This is a cool ONE-HANDED fallen archer's DAGGER from a friend of mine which I then tested with my scout:

 

[Spamb0t]

tuppe: an item does NO USE AT ALL in a vault.. THATS why someone who is lvl50 should get it who can make use of it right away

 

[Garris-]

I read this method on the excal boards, thought it was good..

Guilds sign up for the hunt, and afterwards when the loot is in, guild names get pulled out of the hat - the first picked gets first choice, second picked gets second choice, etc.

Then the guilds can pass the loot about amongst themselves as wanted.

I like this system.

 

[old.tuppe]

Originally posted by Spamb0t
tuppe: an item does NO USE AT ALL in a vault.. THATS why someone who is lvl50 should get it who can make use of it right away

it was just example, what part of item under 50 is missing?
at this moment i am wearing some orange studded to me, works ok, and can use them (are lvl 50 stuff)
maybe you mean those dd:s? who use them in real?
procs are different thing, weapon dont procs before its yellow, like my n-blessed axe from 40 epic, this i understand.

all can use use them if those are in specs range (bers cannot use chain exampl)
items give bonuses lower lvl:s too.
its wrong say they cannot use them!
dont mean now lvl 20 wearing lvl 45 stuff!

 

[SilverHood]

what they are saying is that lvl 50 loot went to people who are online and do a lot of work for midgard....

The real disapointment would be for one of those so called "uber" drops to go to someone who only plays part time, and really doesn't take part in big realm activities, such as raids, hunts, etc

Durgi and Adrira have been seen all over the place, always were the action is, spending time doing things for the benefit of the realm, spending lots of time fixing relic doors, etc

Regarding Louise and Makwaerk, haven't seen them around that often, but thats probably because of the level difference.

Besides, its only an item in a game.... lets not turn this into an Excalibur slagging fest

 

[Blood]

Originally posted by old.Tbird
but I give credit to Blej on the Dragon raid, not one complaint of how he handled distribution.

LOL? our guild was completely excluded from the lotto by blej, because HE didnt think we had contributed enough..

We are one of the smallest guilds in midgard, with only 13 members, VERY active members, that by any standards can be counted as some of the most active people in the realm.

 

[cHodAX]

Sounds like the little people in middie got shafted while the organisers handed out the goodstuff at mates rates.

 

[Myshra]

congrats to all the mids who killed him, well done. to the under 50s, unlucky eh :/

 

[_tindel_]

yeah it sucked to be honest..

 

[Myshra]

ps blood out of interest did he eat you?

 

[Sarnat]

I simply am amazed how the loot was spread. IMO, only Adrira deserved what he got.

 

[Tjalfe]

I think the people who do alot for the communite of midgår/prydwen also deserve some nice drops for the time the spend organising "events etc.".

but in the fairness of these events, every person should have a chance within limits. drops dont always have 2 go 2 the lvl 50 .. because they can use the item best. 45-50 should have a equal right! since many ppl at that lvl anyway use lvl 50 items.

hoping the problem with "lottoing" items away, will get fixed when there comes a random nr. generator in the game.

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

the only fair to do is really this, but this way would take AGES to do. Count how many 45-50 attends or 40-50s
Then count how many % of that a guild has.
That amount of % that guild should have chance of winning the lotto. That way is the only fair way to do. But the thing is it would take ages to do tbh.

What is kinda sick to me is like some says is ppl that TALK alot that have got some item even if i dunno what some ppl have done to earn it tbh. Adrira guard odin alot and i often give her credits for that.

Makwaerk? NEVER heard of him.
Other names i wont even make a comment on.


The thing is i just wanted to kill the legion.
What ever about the items tbh.
Now we done 1 time legion wont be so hard to take more times
The dragon was alot harder and need alot more ppl.
Only thing that was bad there is that HH did not get a chance of the uber items, and white rose had a chance. Sorry white u did not have alot of high ppl i belive. But all do their part in away.

The thing thats sick imo. Is that some guilds think this.
They come with 5ppl lvls 40-45 they should have same amount of chance of a guild that comes with 40 40-50
Would that be fair?

Check why not fair at all.
5 guilds have chance of 1 uber item
Guild 1 has 5ppl there
Guild 2 have 100ppl there

If guild 1 wins lotto they have 20% eatch of getting the item
if guild 2 wins lotto they need to decideo n 100ppl so 1% chance of eatch member. Some ppl think this is tha fairest thing to do.
I cant really understand those ppl.

Like HH for example are saying or solid atm.
We wont attend to anything that EoO plans.
Why? YES because ME and all those guilds in the cg did not mention HH name of a chance for a uber item.
Kinda weird imo that they could not ask during or after the run as we did that for hours... Strange altso none in cg. I heard it was full but seemed weird that they did not try harder or ask for about the drops thats my opinion anyway.

And why should lower ppl attend to those hunts.
Yes you may lose xp doubt on legion more on dragon in that case.
But if sucess. Items drops. Those who gets gets stronger.
If someone gets stronger. Midgards gets stronger in total.

And blood. Shadows had 5ppl attented?
I did what i thaught was a good idea.
And the easiest to.
BUT DONT blame all crap on me.
As it was many other ppl/guilds in cg.
And its tbh not fair of ppl saying like gah hates EoO.
Hate those 8 guilds.
EoO,Warders,White Rose,Bulle,Svea Ulvar,Kalevala
Savage, 1 more. Mighty perhaps dont remember..


Anyway what this is leading to why should many big guilds attend if they have same chance of a guild that has 5ppl attended? When they have to split the item with ALOT of ppl and the small guild so few and to get the item is a big chance..
Dont understand that.
Altso 1 suggested. Guilds that are on the RP list gets first pick.
so first rp holder picks first then second and sutch..
This is a oki idea but altso.. if ppl only do rvr..
they dont for example help out more..
Like hey our relic doors are down.
But noo we cant fix our doors we need to kill albs or hibs so we get first place on that rp list..
Wont work i think....


Blejsarus 50 thane GM of Eye Of Odin

 

[thorungla]

Just thought Id add my comments here so people know where I stand on it. Unfortunately being on a cracking holiday enjoying the sun sea and surf I missed both the Dragon and DF raids.

Why have we changed the method for loot distribution now, when the existing lottos have worked fine (maybe with only the clarification before hand of whether a level 50 take priority over lower levels). This is another issue though I personally think someone say level 47+ shud have equal priority first since the time taken for them to hit 50 is relatively short when using the argument that the item cannot be fully utilised by non level 50 players.

The only reason I can assume for no longer using this method is because it is time consuming to arrange a lotto between say 20+ people. Though again I dont really see this being a problem to be honest, it is a small amount of effort to provide the most fair distribution. If we as a realm can arrange all that we do, be it Dragon raids, fund raisers for Relic Doors, Relic raids and so on, surely an hour or so of lotto's isnt too much to ask.

Another issue here is that of a large guild having more right to items than a smaller guild, which only seems to discriminate against people not in the larger guilds and doesnt really help the realm. By trying to sort the loot distribution on a per guild basis, not only is it becoming overcomplicated but also creates fractures amongst the Alliances which are clearly evident since all this has happened. All this is uneccessary given the existing lottos were 100% fair.

Finally I'd like to mention a partial agreement that there are people in the realm that do stand out from the crowd, by organising many raids and events, by spending many hours watching our frontiers or guarding our lowb xper's. And that it would be ashame for these people to not get some reward for their extra efforts (beyond the obvious pride and friendships they have realm wide) because of a run of bad luck in the lotto game. This sort of case could be agreed before a raid, amicably amongst those attending, or simply all those people within a realm 'heroes' guild also agree to lotto on behalf of them hence increasing their chance.

Well basically thats it. I probably babbled on too much, but I hope I made my opinions clear.

 

[Luuna]

Yeah, well I do a lot of work for Midgard too by helping you to get back to your last bind points but I didn't get a single drop. B*stards.

Judging by the past few days and the DF/CF item hunts I've been on people made it clear during the raid if they were unhappy about the way loot was being distributed ... [judging by this thread] I can see the bridges burning from here.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

I can't fathom why anyone would give a drop to someone not present a the raid, but if that's the way you want to do it *shrug*. If you don't like the way the raid leader decides to distribute the drops (and TBH it's his call really), get someone else to arrange it.

 

[old.Revz]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen
LOL? our guild was completely excluded from the lotto by blej, because HE didnt think we had contributed enough..

Could that be because from a purely PvE point of view a guild made up of 20 stealth classes is more than a little useless for killing big mobs? Did you all bring your buff bots along to heal?

You honestly can't act suprised that one of the smallest Midgard guilds with almost nothing to offer in PvE is excluded from drops. You made the decision to start an RvR guild and only invite high level stealthers (or however you did it) so you have to accept that in being so greedy with the RP you are going to get the shaft when it comes to nice items from PvE. After all it is everyone else who plays those "boring" classes that don't RvR well that actually enable you to kill mobs like Legion.

The sword cuts both ways as you have now found.

As for distribution generally I think that despite people hating it Blej has come up with a better method than lottoing everyone there (although I think drops should always go to people who came myself regardless of how you give them out). This is why I have never personally organised a dragon raid, I don't want the inevitable crap thrown at me when people want "fairness" over "common sense" in the loot distribution.

/em dons flame retardent suit

You would be stupid to lotto any uber items. Imagine what would happen if that heart of the north went to a level 45 scout who never made it to level 50 and got maybe 40k RP before he got bored and didn't play again. Sure it is fair but is it the best use of a really good drop? Er no.

Who can decide the best use of a drop?

Well like it or not the GMs of guilds present are likely to do that most competently provided they don't get wrapped up in being fair and throw common sense out of the window. If Legion or the dragon was the sort of mob you could knock off every day for a month then I could see more reason to lotto everyone present. But he isn't so you have to accept that the amount of truly amazing loot in the realm is likely to be countable on the fingers of a few hands. In which case you need to make sure that limited resource is being put to the best use.

If you don't like it then organise your own raid and distribute the loot how you want to. If you think that random un-guilded people who come should have a chance then let that random un-guilded person organise a raid and then he can decide how loot is distributed.

Was it not for the fact that the really top end mobs require stupid amounts of people to kill we wouldn't even be having these discussions because, like in EQ, guilds would be doing them on their own and distributing loot sensibly. After all a guild member has the ultimate option of voting with their feet and leaving if they don't like how things are given out.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Wasn't there, but on the subject of loot distribution...

Any RP based system wouldn't work. Stealthers would automatically become the recipients of all the drop items (nothing against stealthers, but they are after all the out and out RP farmers of each realm) but they don't get to lvl50 without their realm buddies to get them there. I am observing here that people don't like the choice methods that don't seem to favour them or their own guilds i.e. larger guilds want guild size to be only factor, stealthers would like RP to be the factor, Hibbies would like size of largest tree hugged to be a factor etc. This is human nature I suppose.

Hehe will admit perhaps because I'm not a stealther I don't favour the RP method

Although close to lvl50, I still don't believe that lvl50s should automatically get the drop items either. I like the guild way of doing it because it cuts down on effort and you have to be fairly practical, but rather than being dumb about it, give a percentage chance based on size of guild turn-out at a raid.

Yes, you're going to argue that if a guild of lvl10s showed up they'd have a chance of lvl50 drops.

So what? They contributed, they get a shot of the big stuff and many peeps get to the level where they can use the items very quickly. The I-Can-Use-It-Already-So-I-Must-Have-It argument doesn't wash. You'll probably find the item comes up for sale if they think they can't use it for a long time to come.

You have to be COMPLETELY fair, and not rationalise why some should get and some shouldn't. If you don't want lvl10s to get a chance of an item, don't take them on the raid. If a high level mob can't actually be hit below a certain level of char, then make sure that peeps know BEFORE the raid (not saying this happened on Legion raid, this is generalising). Don't let peeps turn up then annoy them by being unfair. You will want to do these things again, and remember the lower level peeps are the future lvl50s.

For example:

Count the number of peeps from each guild that show up (regardless of level). Have them stand together at the start of a raid (regardless of who they actually group with). If you have set a level minimum for the raid, ignore guildmates below that level and if they mess about and don't pay attention just count the ones that get together. Organising big stuff limits the time you have for idiots. Its really easy.

So supposing we had the following turnout:

Guild A - 10 peeps show up
Guild B - 20 peeps show up
Guild C - 50 peeps show up

If 8 uber items dropped this would be easy - guild A gets 1, guild B gets 2 and guild C gets 5. The actual items would be harder to sort. Suggest guild with highest number of peeps PRESENT gets first choice, second largest the next and so on. When everyone's had a pick, the largest guild picks its second item and so on. Guild C would still get their 5 drops, but it would be fair.

Its rarely that simple.

More guilds and less uber drops than guilds.

So do it something like this:

Using the previous example... dig out an old D100. Yes, its that simple.

Guild A has a chance from between 12.5% chance of winning
Guild B has 25%
Guild C has 62.5%

So if you roll between 1 and 12... Guild A gets first drop choice. (Reroll borderline numbers like in this case 13)
13 to 37 Guild B gets first choice...

and so on.

Now... once a guild has had a choice assigned to them, they are out of the running for any more, unless there are more drops than guilds present. Once the unique drops are shared, move on to the other stuff, and the guilds that didn't get the unique drops get first choice of the other stuff. Just work down the list.

So if Guild A got the first drop choice, you would ignore any D100 result of less than 13 and reroll it, if guild B got first choice, reroll results of between 13 and 37 when doing the second item. Actually you could write a very simple programme to do exactly this kind of thing and do it very fairly but to make it work all you need is pen, paper a D100 and some organisational skills.
It sounds like a lot of effort but its worth the hassle to make it fair if you ever intend to get peeps to work together more than once.

This system falls apart if you don't trust the person doing it or they are unfair, but hey, if you don't trust the person doing it, why did you let them organise a raid you went on

The only truly fair way of doing it is to stick all the names of those that showed in a hat and pick names til all drops shared... not going to happen, you'd still be sitting there when the sun goes dim.

However, everyone who's been on item hunts knows that loot sharing at the end of the hunt can take a while. Sit down and craft while you wait.

I'm interested in this because I often run hunts of various sizes, so the loot sharing methods that peeps propose are all worth thinking about.

Anyone with better/easier/fairer methods please post

 

[old.Gromnir]

Personaly I thought/thing the _HERO_ stuff was about as lame as a level 40 running around in Vale of Mularn killing gery con in from of a level 6. From my point of view the people presented at the time of death are the people who deserve the loot.

I wasent on the Legion raid and I would if I had been nominated rolleyes: fat chance there ) and won an Uber item be a: Happy b: feel odd c: feel sad for the level 44 who where on the raid and could have used the item.

And by the way how do you find a _HERO_ a person who have done something for the realm. But what do you define as the realm? Do you do something for your realm when you fight Hibis and albs at Odins gate. Or is it the person in Vas that give away free items for new players, is it the person who with out thinking of him(her)self powerlevel every one to level 50. Or is it the person who hold the most events. ?

Imo all uber items dosent have to go to pure level 50 chars even tho they might have done the most dam on a mob, but are they more important then the level 47 that maybe did 40 dam less. ?
I know many wont feel that way about the ubermobs, but imo i'd rather see an ubersword in the hand of a person who have played since the beginning and is only ... say level 48 then a person who got powerleveled to level 50 in 14days and run around like a total n00b.

I think the way Roo put a loot system up is fair, my own ideer was that you count the number of guilds and devide the loot that way and then let the guild decide among the guildmate persent at the time of the event. Might not be as fair for every one but it would be fair guildwise, so no guild is worth more then any other guild no matter size.


But what do I know about events/raids ... nothing realy I juse speak of my experince with RL.

 

[old.Tbird]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen
LOL? our guild was completely excluded from the lotto by blej, because HE didnt think we had contributed enough..

We are one of the smallest guilds in midgard, with only 13 members, VERY active members, that by any standards can be counted as some of the most active people in the realm.

I stand corrected then, Shadows weren't happy with the dragon lotto. Compare that to the 5 or 6 guilds (that I know) who weren't happy with the DF distribution, someone will always feel shafted that's life, when a LOT feel shafted something is wrong.

Lets get brutal here, most people dont give a toss about the actual items it's the attitude and old pals act that was going on that was disliked. How successful would the raid have been if Durgi had announced 'Legion raid, I get all the loot, get to choose the item I want and give the rest out to my mates', not very successful i bet. How come after the 4 'ubers' had gone the rest were suddenly available for lottery?

If these things are to have any chance of repeat there must be a firm agreement on how items are shared BEFORE we go. IMO you only kill Legion and the dragon for 2 reasons, the first time is for the 'experience' of being there, subsequent kills are for the CHANCE of drops for someone in your guild. Without that reason why would you throw away 15+gold and take damage to the armour/weapon that you might have camped days to get?

 

[old.Tbird]

Originally posted by Mid_Blejsarus
Makwaerk? NEVER heard of him.

Oh nearly forgot, I agree just who the fuck is Makwaerk?

 

[old.Det]

Clearly a HERO of the realm!!

(no offence intended, whoever you are)

EDIT: someone who has done alot of wood runs for relic keeps, if so then well deserved drop

 

[old.Det]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen


LOL? our guild was completely excluded from the lotto by blej, because HE didnt think we had contributed enough..

We are one of the smallest guilds in midgard, with only 13 members, VERY active members, that by any standards can be counted as some of the most active people in the realm.

Camping apk in emain 10 hours per day is considered active?

I see your grp did about 3 times less damage on legion than the one I was in btw.

Flame away

 

[Brannor McThife]

Makwaerk, Rank 2, Troll Berserker, Level 47, RP:9711, last on:3 Days
Makwaerkmeeting, Rank 3, Norseman Viking, Level 1, RP: 0, Last on:7 Days
Makwaerkos, Rank 3, Kobold Runemaster, Level 23, RP:83, Last on:Inactive

Soooo, an Uber drop goes to someone who's not a L50, and who has less than 10k RP, and who hasn't been on since the raid (think date of last on may be wrong...)...



-G

PS. He's in Savage Conclave.

[EDIT: Could also be:

Ogdeter Makwaerk, Rank 3, Dwarf Healer, Level 41, RP:15225, last on:3 Days]

 

[old.Noita]

My opinion, for what its worth:

I was lucky enough to be included in the groups for the raid on Legion. It was VERY well organised and arranged for such a big gathering and despite this wrangling afterwards I think Blejsarus and Durgi should be applauded for their efforts regardless of personal feelings towards both of these guys.

Lets face it, if it wasnt for Blej and for people like Durgi, Azal and a handfull of others (you know who you are), then things like relic raids, Large scale Realm Defence/Offence, Dragon hunts, Prince killing, Legion and also upcoming Bememoth and Beliathan raids would simply NOT happen and then nobody would get these drops. On the other hand, the more we kill these uber mobs the more chance people will have of getting the sparklies next time as I'm sure NOONE will countenance 2 lightsabres going to Durgi or Maekwerk getting a spare Hauberk!

I really hope that we can sort this out to everyones satisfaction, because, by way of a warning guys, I can see a time when the bigger guilds are going to get so frustrated with being branded the bad guys all the time that you will have 4 or 5 Guilds doing the Uber Mob killing and then NO other guild will get a drop unless those excluded guilds wish to organise a raid themselves. Then our realm will develop a schizm and this is only good for TWO things...The Realm of Albion and The Realm of Hibernia. It would be such a shame to have any developing conflict over something as pathetic as a mob drop. We are a great realm, we have some extremely good people and we are relatively well organised. Lets try to keep it this way and not let the advent of DF ruin our cohesion.

Ogmarin: Thank you ever so much for your kind words, in true girly style you brought a little tear to my eye (really). Im both honoured and flattered to have you say such nice things about me. But, I just do what I see is necessary, I have great pride in my realm and my realm mates even tho I am driven to the brink of screaming in frustration at times And so... any little bit I can do to help is really a pleasure for me. I do know that SOME people dont like being given orders by a woman, when we do it we are being Bossy, when a man does it he is being Commanding! I have given up all hope and desire of being any kind of leader now since my nomination for The Council by AT LEAST 5 guilds was totally ignored the last time. I didnt mind for myself but I thought it was kind of an insult to people like Tidus and Louise who are themselves VERY good guild leaders and extremely nice people. So...now I just do what I can, when I can and hope it helps a bit. Thank you And thank you for making me blush!

Noita Helsdottir
Spiritmaster of 46 Winters
Eye of Odin
Flammen Vakten

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Geez, the fellow is a HERO OF MIDGARD and you havn't heard of him? You suck!

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
Geez, the fellow is a HERO OF MIDGARD and you havn't heard of him? You suck!

Then again, I've never seen Blaen... can't be a hero then...



-G

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife

Then again, I've never seen Blaen... can't be a hero then...



-G

I'm not a hero, I leech

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
I'm not a hero, I leech

-G