Lasher Balancing

[[PS]Venom]

Well, 3rd nerf in the history of planetside

Tomorrow morning, there will be some adjustments to the Lasher on the Public Test Server.
1) It will have damage degradation. While the projectile still goes the same maximum distance, it now degrades in its strength, as does the lash itself.

2) The damage against armor (MAXs, vehicles) has been reduced by 30%.

Victor Wachter
Community Relations Representative
Many questions can be answered by reading the PlanetSide Game Info and FAQ

To be honest I'm happy about this change. Too many people were misusing the lasher as a new jackhammer - run, point, hold trigger down.

I wish they'd just put it back to original firing rate but just up the damage slightly or something.

 

[mid_Efour]

OWN3D!

 

[Turamber]

Pretty sad - developers bending to the weight of whinges on the official forum. If anyone gets killed by the lasher in the open then they have to be blind or afk ... maybe both.

People just aren't used to being killed by VS specific weapons

 

[Will]

The Lasher was too strong against vehicles in my opinion. It made it a waste of time being a MAX indoors against VS. And they can't do a lot of dodging there.

 

[Turamber]

Nerfing the lasher against armour/vehicles means that the pulsar in AP mode does more damage against those than the lasher (only 1 fire mode) does.

The lasher is a decent weapon, and the only 'no-skill' empire specific weapon we have.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by Turamber
Pretty sad - developers bending to the weight of whinges on the official forum. If anyone gets killed by the lasher in the open then they have to be blind or afk ... maybe both.

People just aren't used to being killed by VS specific weapons

... or there's 20+ Lasher gimps again, and there's no where to run once the spamming starts ?

1 Lasher ain't a problem, 10+ are (in the open). Atleast you can take cover from a JH or MCG behind a rock or something... try that with a Lasher.

 

[Esoteric]

Well I think this is terrible...

Maybe 80% of vanu do have lasher but its the same situation with jh on NC.

The only weapon that can one shot kill a full exo suit soldier is a JH in alt mode, I have been on the short end of this. Can mcg or lasher one shot kill anyone? (full armour/health), no they can't. Sure it takes two people to rip apart a max using a lasher but it takes only one JH user to rip apart a max alt mode on with anti armour ammo. Though how many people can be arsed to carry anti armour ammo? Im pretty sure someone brought one down with less than 1 full clip.

At range the lasher is still easy to dodge I know this I have done it. The mcg is a good weapon it is not bad at a medium ish range the lasher and jh are awful but the jh compensates for this by being lethal up close. The lasher just gets better the closer you get cause its less easy to dodge the damage remains the same but it cannot one shot kill someone.

Once I had a stand off with a lasher using tr exo suit and I was using the mcg, the tr was a small distance away, I wiped the floor with him the lashes were damn easy to dodge (post patch).

The only reason why vanu have been "pwning" on continents is because after the patch, NC lost many a true "noobhammer" and they either joined tr or more than likely vs. Many of the skilled dedicated nc folk remain. Unfortunately this meant greater numbers for the other side to zerg with and NC loosing much ground, tho vanu have had the short end of this for a long long time.

The lasher doesn't "pwn" you it just kills you, a jh user in the old days could rifle through 4/5 VS folk without even blinking. The lasher cannot and does not do this unless facing "noobs", I die and have died a plenty after 1/2 kills.

Do I still loot the other HA weapons you bet your ass I do. JH close range is damn lethal and mcg is good with accuracy short-medium range and fires 100 rounds, plus you get the choice with jh and mcg of anti armour ammo.

I have always had the lasher ever since I could afford it I have used it (through thick and thin). If they change it yet again I think I may use the 4 points elsewhere until SOE finally decide what the hell they gonna do with it.

Though I'll happily accept this nurf if all the old nc "noobhammers" who jumped ship bugger off back to NC, our realm used to be nice and mature "noobhammers" are bringing the atmosphere down.

Eso

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by Turamber
Pretty sad - developers bending to the weight of whinges on the official forum.

I can't be assed to do it myself, but perhaps you'll find me a link to a post of yours saying how sad it was when they did this before and buffed the VS and TR HA weapons?

Sorry - and on topic, seems to me that a reduction in lasher AP capability was in order. I hope this settles the balance a bit better.

 

[Will]

All they are doing is reducing its AV properties, and giving it a damage drop-off. They aren't killing it totally, just balancing it a bit. And the JH on alt-fire is 3 shots one after the other, then a long wait. [edit] And, as pointed out, that doesn't kill full Exo.

The change is only at the testing stage, and Twist (one of the dev's) has been testing the Lasher extensively. His conclusion was that the weapon was too useful in too many situations, hence the reducing in AV damage, and could herd far too effectively (hence the damage drop-off).

 

[Cronn]

Originally posted by Esoteric

The only weapon that can one shot kill a full exo suit soldier is a JH in alt mode
Eso

I read this far into your post then ignored the rest, you're obviously an idiot.

 

[Esoteric]

Fine your entitled to think IM an idiot but the jh alt mode can one shot kill someone, happened to me yesterday full health and full armour, this is a commonly known fact. Tbh for stating that Im an idiot (and nothing else mildly intelligent) I really don't think your the brightest tool in the box.

 

[Uriron]

The lasher is a bit too usefull in all situations, I have killed maxes and prowlers/reavers with it. It's flexibility detracts from the need for the lancer in many cases. Maybe this "nerf" will make the lancer more important against heavy armoured stuff now. Which all adds to the balance of the game.

Shame as I loved only having to carry one weapon, maybe now I'll have to take a pulsar with me as well.

Whilst lasher needed an improvement (I had been using it for a few weeks before the patch and thought it was ok but seemed lacking slightly against the other empires HA weapons) it seems that the other empires have just chucked their teddies out about the fact that their HA weapons no longer have the advantage over VS HA and seem to prefer fighting each other than taking on VS.

I would have quite happily accepted an increase in lash/damage or fire speed but both was maybe a step too far.

 

[Jupitus]

The point about having to carry more than one weapon is important. If I could use the JH in more situations other than just up close and personal I wouldn't need to carry a Gauss aswell. If I didn't carry the Gauss what else would go into my backpack? Well for a start I could use the scatter as my pistol and then only need to carry one kind of ammo. Big difference that makes straight away. I just cleared up half my bag space to carry a bunch of grenades or a bunch of medpacks, and bingo, I'm far more effective in combat. Fact is though, I DO have to carry a Gauss as that's what I find myself using more than 50% of the time, hence the BIG advantage VS currently have with the Lasher being so damned useful across the board.

And Eso - if you are getting one-shotted by JH users on secondary mode you are either being extremely unlucky, extremely silly, or extremely AFK. I NEVER use secondary mode unless I am in the arms of a max, and even then it's usually an accident

 

[Will]

Urion : You've hit the nail on the head. I don't need to say any more.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Jupitus
I can't be assed to do it myself, but perhaps you'll find me a link to a post of yours saying how sad it was when they did this before and buffed the VS and TR HA weapons?

The prepatch VS complaints about their weapons on the official boards in no way related to the weight or vehemancy of the anti-lasher posts on the official forums.

The fact remains that to use our empire specific weapons you need some skill. People complain about the mag, but it's damned difficult to drive well and takes damage from the smallest bump. Infantry complain that the lancer can kill them easily -- but it can only really do that from distance, up close and personal you just don't have time to target the enemy or wait for the pulse.

The lasher is our only 'spam' weapon. All that's happened is the NC have found out the pain of being rushed/spammed to death and they don't like it

Oh and I don't use a lasher - lancer/special assault combo for teh win

 

[Esoteric]

Originally posted by Jupitus
And Eso - if you are getting one-shotted by JH users on secondary mode you are either being extremely unlucky, extremely silly, or extremely AFK. I NEVER use secondary mode unless I am in the arms of a max, and even then it's usually an accident

How about semi afk eating at the machine while a hack goes through, hiding somewhere where I thought no one could find me. Plus I was kinda ready to fight but can't do sod all against a one shot kill.

My point is (what cronn seems to dispute either that or he's just trying to be an offensive moron) that the JH can actually one shot kill someone with full health/armour no other ha can do that in fact Im not even sure a deci can one shot kill someone.

I just hope they don't go too far... I hope someone with a reasonable point of view will evaluate the lasher on the test server.

 

[Will]

Spam weapons are bad, mm'kay?

Agree to disagree lads, and wait and see what the patch does. You are acting like they are removing it from the game, rather than toning it down a little.

 

[Jupitus]

Turamber - before the previous round of tweaks 'NERF JH' threads accounted for about 30% of all threads on the official boards, only to be replaced by the 'OMFG NERF LASHER' threads a week later. If the latter were more vehement it is only likely to be in light of the fact that the 1st round of tweaks ought to have brought about better balance and people were upset that it had gone too far. Personally I hate all nerf/tweak threads as I like the variation and challenge in the game, but I will get involved when I think people are being a little hypocritical in their posts

Eso - I am sitting on the fence on the 'JH can 1 hit kill reinf exo' argument. Some say it can where others say it can not. Certainly I have never managed this, but from my experience I would think the only way possible would be at point blank range with a stationary target and on secondary mode. You really need to get an IV drip or log if you're going to complain about being killed under these extreme circumstances Using JH in secondary mode might get occasional kills like this, but in my view is more likely to get the user killed as he sits and waits for the next shot to be available... it really isn't worth it.

 

[Esoteric]

Jup squad up with a exo outfit mate take him to some remote island (by this time he should be scared) and get to pb range flick alt mode and watch as he slumps to the ground. Maybe test it three/five times or somin and see how many actually drop him, I won't be surprised if he drops every time.

Oh and I agree with the rest of what you wrote all Im trying to prove/state is that it can do it.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by Esoteric
Jup squad up with a exo outfit mate take him to some remote island (by this time he should be scared) and get to pb range flick alt mode and watch as he slumps to the ground. Maybe test it three/five times or somin and see how many actually drop him, I won't be surprised if he drops every time.

Most exo or non exo wearers poo their pants just when they get the 'Jupitus invites you to join a squad' message... I have to pay Boomy hard cash to run the squad now just so I don't solo full time

 

[Milkshake]

I'm glad VS got the Lasher upgraded, but it really is overpowered at the moment. I understand your gonna spam me with "noobhammer" posts, but the fact is, outside the JH is piss poor. It's Alt mode is worse.

The lasher is the opposite, and yes although the range isn't that much more on the lasher, the orbs can be aimed rather than the JH, who's shells go all over the place.

It's a very good nerf, keeps in with keeping a good HA weapon for all but brings the VS gun down a bit.

P.S I've never used a JH, apart from in the VR Training.

 

[Esoteric]

Originally posted by Jupitus
Most exo or non exo wearers poo their pants just when they get the 'Jupitus invites you to join a squad' message... I have to pay Boomy hard cash to run the squad now just so I don't solo full time

Hehe lol, I think I heard a faint rumour about your galaxy piloting skills.

 

[mid_Efour]

the lasher did need its little nerf

i made a charcter on emerald with a lasher, i was winning 4 vs 1 indoors. I killed numerous maxs even beat a scatter max 1 on 1 ( yes he was quite stupid) I shot down aircraft, I destroyed lightnings.


the JH 2nd mode is utter crap useful for spawn camping and killing afk people.

i retract my previous statement, this weapon will still be one of the best in the game for base suppression.

 

[bone_idle]

What a few people have said here about the MCG is exactly whats wrong with it. People say you can kill at range with it but we can kill faster at range with our cycler. The MCG is a HA weapon and so is ideally made for close combat situations which it sucks at.

At point blank range MCG vs Lasher, the lasher wins hands down.

The Lasher kills a 100% armour/health reinf armour in under a second. The MCG takes around 3 seconds to kill. At point blank range.

The Lasher needs this nerf. Its also the only weapon that can damage through walls and kill when hiding behind trees.

 

[Esoteric]

Just thought I'd point out bone_idle that the lasher damage and fire rate won't change close range.

Though I have been beaten by both mcg and the cycler so don't despair , also I still pick up the mcg when I can, makes me feel like a terminator .

 

[=M<P=Xerxes]

I have a better idea that no-one will like. So it should be good, lol. Get rid of the HA cert.

 

[Spinky]

In alt mode for the Jackhammer the only way to oneshot people (if it ever happens that is) is if you are absolutely hugging the person you're shooting, I mean no distance at all because the cof is huge to begin with on that mode, plus it blooms when the trigger is pulled. I've read/heard/whatever from sources (reliability notwithstanding) that also in alt mode each shot is at 2/3 strength of the single fire mode, take that with a pinch of salt though.


Lasher's hard as buggery now, there's no contest about that, even against armoured targets which sort of makes the lancer defunct (aside from the whole range aspect, which doesn't always exist even outdoors) so the ap nerf is justified, in my opinion anyway.The range degradation? Also justified, even at medium range depending on the rate of degradation the lasher will still be a nasty piece of work to deal with because of the rate of fire and the lashing aspect. I've been in vehicles shot by the lasher and it's scary as heckfire to be in a Lightning, see a bunch of those blue orbs hurtling towards you, and then explode a few seconds later.

All we need now is for the striker to lose the whole lock-on-to-MAXs and wait for the whine of that too

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by =M<P=Xerxes
I have a better idea that no-one will like. So it should be good, lol. Get rid of the HA cert.

I like it

 

[Uriron]

Yeah just get rid of all weapons and make everyone use knifes

Mind you then NC and TR will want Vanu Knife nerfing 'cause it glows and theirs only makes a crappy noise, lol.

 

[Manic Miner]

tbh, i think a good idea would be to nerf everything, or buff all armour and health.

i like the balance of the weapons atm, it just would be nice to live longer on occasions so that you can manage to return fire once in a while rather than just die respawn die respawn.

i feel for the nc and tr when i am able to catch them unawares with my lasher and get a guaranteed frag. just the oposite though i sometimes get fragged and only know about it cos i'm lying dead on the floor and have to look back up in the console to see why and who. it would just occasionally be nice to have the chance to return fire and i think by making weapons weaker or people stronger it would do this and stop the frustrations people have of insta death which in turn makes em whinge like hell on the forums.

regards,
manic miner