Kim Jong Il dead

[BloodOmen]

died of a massive heart attack... I can't bereave his korea is over

 

[ECA]

He's Ill and he's dead?

Unrucky.

 

[old.Osy]

Well, his son is worse, tbfh.

 

[BloodOmen]

yup, he wants to bomb south korea more than kim jong il did so it will be interesting to see how that pans out.. I smell war on the cards tho.

 

[Raven]

I thought his son liked western girls and playstation?

But anyway, good riddance.

 

[Ormorof]

kinda scary though, will korea go nuts, stay the same or try to be more open/peaceful! uncertain times indeed

 

[old.Tohtori]

Can't say i knew the man personally, seemed to have a long life and worked hard. Points for doing something with life, some negative points on what he did.

 

[Raven]

Yeah one or two...

 

[Scouse]

Hans bricks will be rereived

Went on to Al Jazeera to read about it 'cause the Beeb's coverage is a bit shit tbfh. Linky to some of their reporting which isn't as awkward as the BBC's seems.

What I don't get is how both North Korea and Cuba both have revolutionary leaders that hand over power to family members (in the case of cuba it's gone to Raul). Surely they'd rather transition to a form of democratic communism or is the fear of outside influence which would derail their revolution so great?

NK makes me think of the situation with Iran. Their nukes make them uninvadeable, which is what I think we fear of Iran. Tbfh I don't think that NK is much of a credible offensive military threat any more - and I don't think Iran is either - with or without nukes.

 

[Job]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/kim-jongun-privately-doubting-hes-crazy-enough-to,18374/

 

[Scouse]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/kim-jongun-privately-doubting-hes-crazy-enough-to,18374/

Funneh

However, seriously, people don't honestly think he was mad do they? I know Team America was a wonderful piece of propaganda but we haven't fallen for believing he's mad, have we?

The golf thing was a great one - but it speaks more to stupid human's desire to follow leaders than it does to his mental state. He's fostered a religious belief in himself from the people in his country - in exactly the same way churches foster blind obedience in their teachings. It produces a population willing to resist and to see the horrors foisted upon them as the fault of external influences.

Mad he was not. Very clever would be the apt description.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Scouses law has been evoked, ergo; shoehorn religious anti-message in any discussion

 

[Job]

They've demolished the methodist church around the corner, the rubble is still there.
I'm so tempted to spray 'Muslims did this' on the billboard one night.

 

[Scouse]

Scouses law has been evoked, ergo; shoehorn religious anti-message in any discussion

Oh cunt off Toht. The point is completely relevant to the discussion.

 

[Gwadien]

THE KIM IS DEAD, LONG LIVE THE KIM!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh cunt off Toht. The point is completely relevant to the discussion.

 

[Scouse]

Awww, my own special internet stalker is at it again

 

[old.Tohtori]

Whatever makes you help feel special, you go on and think that.

 

[Uara]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...cute-kim-jong-il's-heart-attack-201112194687/

 

[megadave]

It's a sad day when the world' greatest golfer and multiple world record holder dies

 

[Billargh]

Kim Jong Il?

No, Kim Jong Dead.

 

[DaGaffer]

What I don't get is how both North Korea and Cuba both have revolutionary leaders that hand over power to family members (in the case of cuba it's gone to Raul). Surely they'd rather transition to a form of democratic communism or is the fear of outside influence which would derail their revolution so great?

Don't let superficial similarities fool you into thinking Cuba and NK are anything like each other. Biggest irony with Cuba is that "the revolution" never regarded itself as communist until after the Americans forced them into the communist sphere. Theirs was actually an agrarian land reform movement originally, but ended up sovietised in an "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of way. Raul Castro has taken over because Fidel became increasingly paranoid about his legacy.(He's right too, the name Castro is the only thing stopping normalisation of relations with the US with a democrat in power; if he can keep Raul in situ until the Obama is gone, no Republican president can engage with Cuba because of the Florida vote).

NK on the other hand is a cult of personality that cloaks itself in Marxist rhetoric but has always been Stalinist to the core (Kim Il Sung learned his craft in 30s Russia under Stalin) with a deeply nationalist streak (the original Korean communist party was censured by Comintern for not being "international").

NK makes me think of the situation with Iran. Their nukes make them uninvadeable, which is what I think we fear of Iran. Tbfh I don't think that NK is much of a credible offensive military threat any more - and I don't think Iran is either - with or without nukes.

Nah, western analysts don't fear either country's nukes (yet). Its their unpredictability that gets generals waking up in a cold sweat at night. NK can and does violate SK borders, shoot and sink stuff and generally not give a rat's arse about the consequences; and Iran is nearly as unpredictable, and also rather large; it would need a shitload more troops than Americans have to hold Iran.

 

[Scouse]

Nicely put

NK on the other hand is a cult of personality.

It's why I made the religious point - it's exactly the same as a religion.

 

[BloodOmen]

Was just watching a news broadcast about it and I was just double face palming all the way through, fucking staged public crying over a man that screwed north korea to the point of 900k+ people dying from famine... quite sad really that their own government would have so many people spitting fake tears in a feeble attempt to show his people loved him.

 

[Scouse]

fucking staged public crying over a man that screwed north korea to the point of 900k+ people dying from famine...

It's not staged. They do love him. In exactly the same way that christians love the nonexistent baby jebus.

Kim Jong Il was worshipped as a god, and his people indoctrinated to be that way.

Yes, there are always dissenters - but the vast majority of the people there honestly feel a real loss. All it shows is how fucking dumb humans really are.

 

[Tom]

but the vast majority of the people there honestly feel a real loss.

[citation needed]

 

[ileks]

It's not staged.

Oh come on! Have you see how over the top it is?

From what I've seen it's not exactly secret filming- they will obviously cry their eyes out if told to with a camera in their faces.

 

[Scouse]

[citation needed]

Is that all you can say nowadays Tom?

I've just spent 5 unsuccesful minutes trying to find the interview with the lad which was played on Radio 5 today. He'd done the documentary for the beeb on North Korea recently. He said that he'd been to all sorts of dictatorships that were ruled by fear yet North Korea wasn't like that - there was a genuine indoctrination. They're conditioned to give over the top emotional responses to death (all death) - something I must say seems common in eastern cultures. The retard journo repeated her question about fear and he corrected her again - making the direct comparison to a religious belief system.

Is it so far beyond the realms of your imagination that the North Koreans could be duped in the same way that christians have been duped? Or are sky-fairies somehow more believeable than tangible deities?

He hit eleven hole-in-one's for fucks sake. Seventeen bodyguards attested to it - and they sucked it down like the good little indoctrinated children that they are.


Do they hate him too? Maybe. - Remember, much of the killing of the NK population was done by Kim Jong's old man and that was over a generation ago. Was the christian religion averse to using fear to get it's own way? I seem to remember reading about several religious wars, the burning of muslims and "heretics" in Spain during the inquistion. But christians do love the church, and jebus. And they indoctrinate their children through "religious education". Don't you think that all the kids in North Korea spend an awful long time in school finding out how great Kim Jong and his dad were, and how great his third son is?...

...same shit. Different deity.

 

[Scouse]

[citation needed]

Oh come on! Have you see how over the top it is?

Here you go Tom & Ileks. Ben Anderson, who did the documentary "Holidays in the Axis of Evil" for the Beeb. He secretly visited Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, Libya and Cuba.

Listen from 7m7s in.


I'm sick of always being made to work hard to get a point of view listened to



Edit: If you can't get that link to work it's Shelagh Fogarty's program at 12pm on 19th December - should be able to get to it through the "listen now" link on this page.

 

[BloodOmen]

It's not staged. They do love him. In exactly the same way that christians love the nonexistent baby jebus.

Kim Jong Il was worshipped as a god, and his people indoctrinated to be that way.

Yes, there are always dissenters - but the vast majority of the people there honestly feel a real loss. All it shows is how fucking dumb humans really are.

Meh, idiots.. his son won't be any different, if anything he'll be worse.