July 1st, Smoke Free England & smoking lounges

[old.Tohtori]

Careful where you go with that perspective. Like i said do what you like in smoking lounges. But comparing alcohol & food consumption in a public place is so different its not even worth trying to compare it.

Yes 'cause it's not "forced" on you.

But, some things are, which i've mentioned twice already. Hopefully someone pro-no-smoke can answer them with something else then "But they won't kill you" or "But it's not forced".

 

[Calaen]

Said the same thing about smoking 10 years ago. "Never gonna be banned, that would be sillly". Just wait and see, they will come after something you like too, and then you'll see.

Having a drink makes some people a-holes who ruin a whole evening for others, more then ciggies ever could. Should drinking be banned from people who might not handle it?

Some foods make me gag and can ruin my meal also. Should those foods be banned from restaurants?



Never proven that bar smoke has caused cancers. People living with smokers, sure, but never a case of "This man went to the bar at weekends and now dies of cancer from passive smoke". People who worked all their lives at bars, usually smoke themselves and are now pissed off, and they belong basicly in the same category as the REAL passive smoke issues. Those living in passive smoke.



And at the same time, forcing othe peoples choices to a minimum.

These are just facts, and unless you're an anti-smoking looney like i said, you'll realise i'm right.

You are in danger of overdosing on talking shit.

You not eating something you do not like is irrelevant to my restaurant encounter. Having someone who is inconsiderate and smokes knowing I am eating next to them is wrong. Alcohol again it does not directly affect me by you having a pint, I do not stink of sick, piss or shit which for some is the end product of lots of alcohol.

If you want to smoke you go outside its quite simple. They will never take away something I like, because quite frankly I am addicted to nothing, I take nothing for granted I find its much easier than whining.

 

[Chronictank]

Careful where you go with that perspective. Like i said do what you like in smoking lounges. But comparing alcohol & food consumption in a public place is so different its not even worth trying to compare it.

How so?
Why do you go to the pub (in general)? to consume alcohol, which is proven to be bad for you (just like smoking), as well as having pretty obvious secondary effects which, unlike smoking, arent restricted to the premesis they are consumed in. The weight on the NHS because of alcohol is very much so equal if not higher to that of people smoking

Why do you go to a fast food resteraunt (in general)?, to consume junk food, which is proven to be bad for you (again like smoking), it may not have the side effects but is increasingly becoming a burden on the NHS

It is exactly the same thing as a smoking lounge, the argument of secondary smoke is null and void due to the nature of the place and what people who go there do, so how is it not the same thing?

You are in danger of overdosing on talking shit.

You not eating something you do not like is irrelevant to my restaurant encounter. Having someone who is inconsiderate and smokes knowing I am eating next to them is wrong. Alcohol again it does not directly affect me by you having a pint, I do not stink of sick, piss or shit which for some is the end product of lots of alcohol.

If you want to smoke you go outside its quite simple. They will never take away something I like, because quite frankly I am addicted to nothing, I take nothing for granted I find its much easier than whining.

sorry but you are the one who is missing the point, we arent talking about resteraunts we are talking about smoking lounges. So your point doesnt hold true here

 

[old.Tohtori]

You are in danger of overdosing on talking shit.

You not eating something you do not like is irrelevant to my restaurant encounter. Having someone who is inconsiderate and smokes knowing I am eating next to them is wrong. Alcohol again it does not directly affect me by you having a pint, I do not stink of sick, piss or shit which for some is the end product of lots of alcohol.

If you want to smoke you go outside its quite simple. They will never take away something I like, because quite frankly I am addicted to nothing, I take nothing for granted I find its much easier than whining.

You missed the points completely, and decided to insult me for it too. Great.

What i said is "If someone else is eating something that makes me want to vomit(the smell alone) should that be banned from the restaurants?" and also "Should people who drink and become annoying/in your face be banned from pubs?"

they will never take away something you like hmm? Internet data sharing? Red meat? Soy? Do you smoe/use drugs? Even mild ones, come on. There's something that would tick you off.

And also, why did you go to bars if you knew there was smoke?

sorry but you are the one who is missing the point, we arent talking about resteraunts we are talking about smoking lounges. So your point doesnt hold true here

He's actually talking with my points, so not really off the point that much.

 

[Calaen]

I do agree with you though Chronic, a place designed for smoking should not be covered under this law. The law is there to prevent people that do not smoke and work in an environment where it could have a much higher risk than normal of affecting them. A bar for instance.

Havign read through after posting my thoughts on Tohs post, YOU CANNOT COMPARE FOOD CONSUMPTION TO SMOKING.

 

[Calaen]

You missed the points completely, and decided to insult me for it too. Great.

What i said is "If someone else is eating something that makes me want to vomit(the smell alone) should that be banned from the restaurants?" and also "Should people who drink and become annoying/in your face be banned from pubs?"

they will never take away something you like hmm? Internet data sharing? Red meat? Soy? Do you smoe/use drugs? Even mild ones, come on. There's something that would tick you off.

No it should not be banned, again the alcohol relation is not a true comparison because THAT IS NOT PASSIVE!!!

Nothing do not smoke never had, rarely drink I have no vices. Take the internet away it would not matter I rarely post out side of work.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Havign read through after posting my thoughts on Tohs post, YOU CANNOT COMPARE FOOD CONSUMPTION TO SMOKING.

Why not?

If someone eats a bowl of steaming gabbage soup next to me, the smell will enduce a vomiting(wanting atleast) effect in me and in general, ruin ym restaurant trip altogether.

How is that any different in you saying "I smell of smoke and i don't like it"?

Or are the bans only limited to "maybe possible reasons for death".

No it should not be banned, again the alcohol relation is not a true comparison because THAT IS NOT PASSIVE!!!

So are you saying that if someone else in a bar, which i have a complete right to enjoy, drinks their ass off and comes over and pnched me in the face for no reason...it's..my fault? I don't think i would actively find people who are annoyingly drunk to come to my table, but they do. And with that, ruining my evening like your evening was "ruined" by smoke.

 

[Overdriven]

Just to help Toht out a bit.. I'd rather smell of cigarette than of a kebab/alcohol really.. Atleast the smell of smoke doesn't make you gag/feel like throwing up 5-6 hours later.

Have to agree with the smell part though, I can't stand the smell of most take-away food, therefore it should be banned. Since it's causing my health to go bleeeeeeeep.

 

[Calaen]

lol such gimps. No Toh the guy coming over to you is being a prick, him standing with a pint in his hand has no effect on you. I am sure the restaurant would move you to a location where you were not in any danger Toh.

 

[Calaen]

Just to help Toht out a bit.. I'd rather smell of cigarette than of a kebab/alcohol really.. Atleast the smell of smoke doesn't make you gag/feel like throwing up 5-6 hours later.

Have to agree with the smell part though, I can't stand the smell of most take-away food, therefore it should be banned. Since it's causing my health to go bleeeeeeeep.

yes it does.

 

[tris-]

I think its great, as for stopping a restaurant from selling food or a bar selling alcohol, well thats quite a stupid thing to say. Having a drink or eating food does not directly effect other customers. Smelling like a mong is not on my list of day to day priorities yet whenever I enter a pub/bar I come out smelling like shit.

i think it does actually. if someone drinks enough they turn into a shit head, and depending where you live everyone in the pub may become one of these. i think i agree with tohtori too.

someone being a drunkard has the same possible health effects on me as smoking does. one example is the other night i was working, and some customer launched a bottle towards my head, luckily i ducked for something else at the time and it smashed on the wall behind me.

ok so i didnt ACTUALLY get hurt, but there was the chance i could of been hurt. much like people smoking and not smoking inside buildings.

 

[Bugz]

Seel you just fell off the tightrope.

Stop trying to climb back on!

The reason why alcohol is not banned is because it has POTENTIAL to be fatal if it is misused and that will often lead to arrests etc. Smoking is always damaging.

 

[Bahumat]

As for being bad for you, i would put money on you drinking alcohol and eating junk food, how would you like it if you werent allowed to drink alcohol in a pub or eat junk food in a fast food resteraunt? or does that make perfect sense to you guys?

Smoking a water-pipe is a hell of alot of a lesser evil than alcohol, especially if they use tobacco,nocotine & tar free mollases (sp?)

Smoking lounges are fine by me, its a place smokers go to smoke. I wouldn't expect a rugby fan to goto a football match and complain about it being football.

I understand what you mean about food and drink, but there's a difference.

When i eat a hamburger i get all that nasty fatty crap in MY body, but does it get into yours? No. When someone smokes, the 2nd hand smoke gets into my lungs, and also makes me smell of it on my clothes if i happen to be close by.

Drinking alcohol is bad and i agree with you, but if i spend all night drinking, it doesn't fuck up your liver.

That's the fundamental floor with comparing alot of things to smoking.

 

[Calaen]

i think it does actually. if someone drinks enough they turn into a shit head, and depending where you live everyone in the pub may become one of these. i think i agree with tohtori too.

someone being a drunkard has the same possible health effects on me as smoking does. one example is the other night i was working, and some customer launched a bottle towards my head, luckily i ducked for something else at the time and it smashed on the wall behind me.

ok so i didnt ACTUALLY get hurt, but there was the chance i could of been hurt. much like people smoking and not smoking inside buildings.

Right me having a pint and you standing next to me smoking. I finish my pint and leave and I smell like you, plus I have inhaled smoke. You have nothing from the pint I have drank. There it is a clear as that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

lol such gimps. No Toh the guy coming over to you is being a prick, him standing with a pint in his hand has no effect on you. I am sure the restaurant would move you to a location where you were not in any danger Toh.

How about you learn to talk to people without insulting them? I'm saying that nicely now.

No, someone drinking or eating has no effect on me. Never even argued that.

Someone being drunk because of that pint and then proceeding to bash me, insult me, poke me, annoy me in any way DOES effect me. Thus it should be banned right? I should be forced to move because someone is drunk right?

Also, that person eating, nope. Doesn't effect me. The smells waffing over to my table and making me gag are. Should be banned since i shouldn't be forced to move because of another person. Right?

EDIT 1:

The reason why alcohol is not banned is because it has POTENTIAL to be fatal if it is misused and that will often lead to arrests etc.

Fell off nothing, thank you very much.

You yourself said "passive smoking MIGHT harm me, and i want to have that choice".

so, esentially the same thing you said in that quote there. So which is it, is it ALWAYS harmful or sometimes maybe harmful?

EDIT 2:

Right me having a pint and you standing next to me smoking. I finish my pint and leave and I smell like you, plus I have inhaled smoke. You have nothing from the pint I have drank. There it is a clear as that.

How about you put it into the context i was making.

I stand next to you, you might smell a bit like smoke.

You stand next to me, pour accidently half the pint on me, then proceed to hit me for tipping it over, which i didn't, but you in your drunken stubor thought i did.

 

[Bugz]

How about you learn to talk to people without insulting them? I'm saying that nicely now.

No, someone drinking or eating has no effect on me. Never even argued that.

Someone being drunk because of that pint and then proceeding to bash me, insult me, poke me, annoy me in any way DOES effect me. Thus it should be banned right? I should be forced to move because someone is drunk right?

Also, that person eating, nope. Doesn't effect me. The smells waffing over to my table and making me gag are. Should be banned since i shouldn't be forced to move because of another person. Right?

Smoking around others hurts them 100% of the time.

Out of the consumption of alcohol, the proportion that cause a public nuisance is MUCH MUCH smaller.

Give up on that useless fkin comparison & think up another - which will be very difficult.

 

[Calaen]

How about you learn to talk to people without insulting them? I'm saying that nicely now.

No, someone drinking or eating has no effect on me. Never even argued that.

Someone being drunk because of that pint and then proceeding to bash me, insult me, poke me, annoy me in any way DOES effect me. Thus it should be banned right? I should be forced to move because someone is drunk right?

Also, that person eating, nope. Doesn't effect me. The smells waffing over to my table and making me gag are. Should be banned since i shouldn't be forced to move because of another person. Right?



Fell off nothing, thank you very much.

You yourself said "passive smoking MIGHT harm me, and i want to have that choice".

so, esentially the same thing you said in that quote there. So which is it, is it ALWAYS harmful or sometimes maybe harmful?

No it should not be banned, I know people that would punch you all over without having a drink. Should we ban life? How can you ban a smell? This is just you being you mate. You got nothing better to do than spout tripe on a forum. If I read about you gagging at a restaurant I may actually shed a tear.

 

[Solo]

No it should not be banned, I know people that would punch you all over without having a drink. Should we ban life? How can you ban a smell? This is just you being you mate. You got nothing better to do than spout tripe on a forum. If I read about you gagging at a restaurant I may actually shed a tear.

spot on

As for the sisha rooms there must be a loophole, like maybe you can rent the sisha and smoke it round the back where there are conveniently placed tables / chairs.

 

[Bugz]

Have you actually read the thread at all, not picking on you but all the people saying the same thing.

If it's a smoking lounge, (the clue is in the name), why on earth as a non-smoker who doesnt want to breath in second hand smoke are you going in there?
The whole reason people go there is to smoke
As it happens speaking to a guy working there, employee's sign a waver saying they understand the risks

Actually - it was merely just a statement I wanted to add to mine and OD's constructive argument so nerr

 

[Chronictank]

Smoking around others hurts them 100% of the time.

If indeed the topic of the thread was kept to, damage caused by smoking in smoking lounged to people who dont want to be around it, is in fact 0%

Out of the consumption of alcohol, the proportion that cause a public nuisance is MUCH MUCH smaller.

Complete and utter crap
Public nuisance and damage caused by alcohol abuse is higher than smoking due to the fact that smoking doesnt make you go into asshole mode, not to menton accidents by people below the limit but very fucking obviously shouldnt be behind the wheel

 

[Calaen]

How about you learn to talk to people without insulting them? I'm saying that nicely now.

No, someone drinking or eating has no effect on me. Never even argued that.

Someone being drunk because of that pint and then proceeding to bash me, insult me, poke me, annoy me in any way DOES effect me. Thus it should be banned right? I should be forced to move because someone is drunk right?

Also, that person eating, nope. Doesn't effect me. The smells waffing over to my table and making me gag are. Should be banned since i shouldn't be forced to move because of another person. Right?

EDIT 1:


Fell off nothing, thank you very much.

You yourself said "passive smoking MIGHT harm me, and i want to have that choice".

so, esentially the same thing you said in that quote there. So which is it, is it ALWAYS harmful or sometimes maybe harmful?

EDIT 2:



How about you put it into the context i was making.

I stand next to you, you might smell a bit like smoke.

You stand next to me, pour accidently half the pint on me, then proceed to hit me for tipping it over, which i didn't, but you in your drunken stubor thought i did.

Ah another totally hypothetical situation, almost as funny as the diabetes one. It is still not the same. I may never spill the drink I will always breath in your smoke. Its like comparing you to will smith and actually believing you are the same as him.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Smoking around others hurts them 100% of the time.

Out of the consumption of alcohol, the proportion that cause a public nuisance is MUCH MUCH smaller.

Give up on that useless fkin comparison & think up another - which will be very difficult.

So NOW you say it hurts 100% of the time. Which it doesn't.

Never heard of smoking causing accidents on the roads, drunkj driving does. There, another comparison. Let's ban alcohol 'cause it might lead to drunk driving?

No it should not be banned, I know people that would punch you all over without having a drink. Should we ban life? How can you ban a smell? This is just you being you mate. You got nothing better to do than spout tripe on a forum. If I read about you gagging at a restaurant I may actually shed a tear.

Thanks for clearing this up. You have an issue with me, not even trying to discuss the matter.

What you BOTH fail to realise is that i'm not saying "smoking ban is bad", i said it before, i don't mind it. What i was trying to say and got trampled and misread by all non-smokeys, was that you should be careful(as a nation/world) because you might actually get what you wish for. A really safe, nansy world where nothing is allowed.

By the way calaen, me getting spilled ale on by a drunkard is a fact that WILL happen, you getting cancer from passive smoke is much more hypothetical.

And to ALL who just want to argue because "it's tohtori and i don't like him", use the ignore function, be happy.

 

[Infanity]

I run a village pub ( Real Ale pub) we don't serve food and i don't smoke. However i still disagree with it. For years people have known if they go to a pub people will smoke, Now I'm gonna have to revamp the whole place and get carpets cleaned at least every season. In the Houses of P 3 of 5 Bars are still smoking bars, Fair? I think not

 

[Chronictank]

Actually - it was merely just a statement I wanted to add to mine and OD's constructive argument so nerr

wasnt quoted, so was fair game tbh

 

[Vladamir]

How so?
Why do you go to the pub (in general)? to consume alcohol, which is proven to be bad for you (just like smoking), as well as having pretty obvious secondary effects which, unlike smoking, arent restricted to the premesis they are consumed in. The weight on the NHS because of alcohol is very much so equal if not higher to that of people smoking

Why do you go to a fast food resteraunt (in general)?, to consume junk food, which is proven to be bad for you (again like smoking), it may not have the side effects but is increasingly becoming a burden on the NHS

It is exactly the same thing as a smoking lounge, the argument of secondary smoke is null and void due to the nature of the place and what people who go there do, so how is it not the same thing?

For me i go to a pub to socialise. I seldom drink these days and a number of my friends will be sparking up every 10-15 minutes. Coming home i absolutely stink of smoke, not nice.

When a friend consumes food or alcohol, that doesn't effect me. They are consuming it for themselves, there is nothing about that transferring to me. When people smoke, i'm close by so more than likely i'm inhaling it.

Alcohol and junk food are proven to have long term health problems when excessively consumed. Junk food once or twice a week is fine. Alcohol is proven to actually improve your health when consumed sensibly.

Smoking on the other hand poses no positive health benefits whatsoever and does not have the same risks associated with it.

And for anyone who says passive smoking has no risk, what on earth are you talking about

Ban smoking, ban alcohol, ban junk food. I only partake in one of those 3 every once in a while, it's no big deal to me.

 

[Thorwyn]

Instead of finding regimentations for everything: why don´t they let common sense try to solve the problem? Leave it up to the pub/restaurant/bar owner to make his establishment smoker or non-smoker. And BANG - fuck me sideways - all problems are gone! If you´re a smoker, get in and puff your ciggie. If you´re a non-smoker and don´t mind second hand smoking, get in and enjoy your stay. If you´re a non-smoker and don´t want second hand smoking... do the unspeakable and STAY OUT.

I know that the general statement behind all those bans is to make clear that smoking is dangerous. But if it is, why don´t they ban it for good? The government makes millions of cash from smokers. And the attempt to "protect" people from smoking is a tad hypocritical.

 

[Bugz]

Public nuisance and damage caused by alcohol abuse is higher than smoking due to the fact that smoking doesnt make you go into asshole mode, not to menton accidents by people below the limit but very fucking obviously shouldnt be behind the wheel

We are not talking about public nuisance.

And it is not crap. If someone lights up near someone else, the other people is inhaling toxins. For alcohol this is not always the case.

Smoking always damages people around the smoker - just because its not seeable - doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Ofcourse - going by the stupid logic of some we would have to ban:

- video games
- the internet
- baseball bats
- food

etc. as they all have a potential to be abused.

And the whole idea of a convo is not really to stay on-topic but to divulge into other assosciated areas etc. for whoever keeps picking me up on that (in off-topic atleast!).

 

[old.Tohtori]

Instead of finding regimentations for everything: why don´t they let common sense try to solve the problem? Leave it up to the pub/restaurant/bar owner to make his establishment smoker or non-smoker. And BANG - fuck me sideways - all problems are gone! If you´re a smoker, get in and puff your ciggie. If you´re a non-smoker and don´t mind second hand smoking, get in and enjoy your stay. If you´re a non-smoker and don´t want second hand smoking... do the unspeakable and STAY OUT.

Because that's not enough for the non-smoking people.

There actually were non-smoking bars, but they don't want their freedom limited to choose their bar.

 

[Bahumat]

You have a slight point Seel, but its not as if everyone you stand near who has a drink turns out to be a drunkard! If you stand next to a person who smokes 1 cigarette you still inhale 2nd hand smoke and your clothes smell.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You have a slight point Seel, but its not as if everyone you stand near who has a drink turns out to be a drunkard! If you stand next to a person who smokes 1 cigarette you still inhale 2nd hand smoke and your clothes smell.

Actually if we're at a bar and i smoke(before the ban) and noone else smoked at the table, i moved to another table for the smoking period.

It's the inconsiderate bastard smokers(much like the inconsiderate drinkers) who are the problem.

but that's again a point that's just me being against everything(what a f*cking copout that's become).