Its not my fault im fat

[Louster]

Okay, let me see if i understand your point. You're claiming that the attractiveness of fatness is relative to societal factors, and it just happens to be that these days fatness is bad. And this is parallel with the attractiveness of skin colour, which is also relative to societal factors, and the two ARE analagous. Both factors depend on arbitrary variables and that's how they derive their qualitative values. Please correct me if i've misunderstood.

I was simply trying to escape the vagueness of "good" and "bad". My point is that if you look at either of these things from the same perspective, their "relative merits" in terms of that perspective are equal in kind.
From the perspective of pure biology, both weight and skin colour contain inherent good/bad things. This is a fact that's completely isolated from anything else.
From the perspective of attractiveness, the qualitative judgements within this perspective become arbitrary, and are heavily influenced by society and convention.

The thing is, this discussion hasn't been about how attractive we find particular skin colours. You're shifting the goalposts. It's been about the apples and oranges of assigning a qualitative value to the attractiveness of fatness and not assigning a qualitative value to skin colour (not NOTE the attractiveness of skin colour, just what the colour is) because skin colour doesn't have a qualitative value in the same manner that fatness has

Basically I'm saying that, with what I've quoted above, you're mixing perspectives. Your "qualitative" judgement of "fatness" is a combination of both "attractiveness" and "biological value", and your judgement of "skin colour" seems to be essentially "worth of that person", or some other unspecified and vague perspective. You have to define in what way you're making your judgements. Saying that "skin colour doesn't have a qualitative value" is false in terms of both attractiveness (which is arbitrary) and biology (which isn't) but is true if you consider "a person's worth", which is why I brought that up. You're comparing different ways of looking at different features, which is why they don't mesh.

I think you're blurring a lot of distinct lines in your argument.

Heh, if you ask me, I'm trying to clarify a lot of things that were blurry to begin with.

But I'm glad you've abandoned the idea that it's a fundamental truth, and yes, I do happen to agree that, in the present, "fatness" tends to be regarded as "inferior" for whatever reason. I'm not saying I necessarily agree that that should be the case ideally, however.

 

[maxi]

Okay, i am willing to retract that it's something fundamental to the psyche. But ask yourself honestly: how many fat people would choose to remain fat if they were offered an athletic, fit body?

You cannot ask yourself this question and answer honestly. You can only speculate, unless you've already gathered the information to back up your Question/Answer. You CAN however ask yourself "if i were fat would i want a fit atheletic body" The question is not specific to fat people either, and I don't see the relevence. I'm skinny and I would NOT trade my body for a fit/athletic one...other skinny people might. I'm sexy as i am thanks!

and er...for the 4th time...anyone actually know any/many people who moan about their weight yet do nothing? etc etc

 

[OblongChicken]

Actually, it was nath who was mixing perspectives when assuming weight and skin colour to be analagous.

Although i'm enjoying the depth of this discussion, i think unravelling and defining all the concepts we're referring to wouldn't, well, be worth the time. When you start boring yourself, then you know you've got to stop...

I'm proud of myself for resisting the temptation to dive into another 500 word post.

 

[Driwen]

Anyway, you're just giving up cos yer losing...

just to annoy you, a quote of yourself . And basically everything has already been said twice, so I agree that really going on with this discussion is pointless.

 

[Louster]

Actually, it was nath who was mixing perspectives when assuming weight and skin colour to be analagous.

This is what I'm saying, though. Viewed using the same frame of reference (which is essential when comparing anything) then yes, they are analogous. They are both biologically important, and both can have implications for a person's health, which is where the qualitative judgements lie ("good" = "healthy", "bad" = "unhealthy"). And on the other hand, they both carry social implications (attractiveness), and qualitative judgements for both, in this respect, are arbitrary ("good" = "subjective", "bad" = "subjective").

 

[pez]

my eyes just started bleeding

 

[JBP|]

But ask yourself honestly: how many fat people would choose to remain fat if they were offered an athletic, fit body?

Having had/been both ill stick with "chubby" thanks, as i am a much happier and nicer person to be around

 

[GekuL]

You're all just arguing for the sake of it now surely?

Fat people are obviously less attractive to the majority, I don't think that can be in doubt. How many beauties like this are in the babe of the day thread for example?

(if you wouldn't, you're obviously fattist?)

The comparison drawn with skin colour is a joke for a number of reasons. It can't be compared with racism because there is no mention of assumed abilities and personality. People already express their preference for skin tone without being labelled racist, just as they do with hair colour.
The cosmetic differences are small and only slightly influence preference, especially when compared with the difference between normal and obese people. The analogy is so ludicrous in my opinion, I can't believe you have managed to write so much about it. It's like saying you must be a homophobe because you don't find men attractive.

The number of diets and attention on dieting suggests there are a lot of people unhappy with their weight. As long as this generalised perception isn't projected on to individuals I don't see what the problem is?

 

[Jupitus]

Having had/been both ill stick with "chubby" thanks, as i am a much happier and nicer person to be around

My chubby belly >>> your chubby belly :kissit:

 

[JBP|]

My chubby belly >>> your chubby belly :kissit:

well that depends on how much cheese you have consumed

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I'm officially bored of the usage of the word arbitrary in this thread.

NO MORE OR I SHALL UNLEASH BAB'S SAQ!

 

[throdgrain]

Im officially bored of, well, this FUCKING THREAD TO BE HONEST!!

Fat people are funny , get over it

 

[leggy]

Im officially bored of, well, this FUCKING THREAD TO BE HONEST!!

Fat people are funny , get over it

I bet your one of those people who put on a telly programme and complain about it instead of turning it off. Then you write to some broadcasting watchdog to complain about it offending your principles.

 

[throdgrain]

Anne Robinson gives me the horn.

 

[Tom]

I know a few people that hate that bitch.

 

[leggy]

I meant 'you're'

Before the Zieg Heil Grammar Squad arrive at the scene.

 

[OblongChicken]

Now homos. No one's mentioned homos. They suck.

 

[Sprock]

I love fat people, yeah I do.

See, they are part of a secret government plan, part of a secret energy store. When peak oil hits, fat people will be herded up and melted down and converted to petrol so the rest of us can continue to drive our big SUV's in the manner we are accustomed too - neat eh?

So.....I recommend that everyone buy a fat person a triple cheesburger today (they are always hungry right) and keep this great countries energy reserves topped up.

btw, if my theory isn't correct, why is it then that it's ilegal to sell a drunk a drink but not ilegal to sell a fat person a McDonalds eh eh?

 

[old.user4556]

Non-camp gay men are very nice people; i have a gay friend and you have no idea he's gay at all - top bloke.

Overly camp, bitchy men (elton john / graham norton / those camp gay interior designers) - annoying, much in the same way that theatrical bitchy women are annoying - not really anything to do with them being gay, although the gayness makes them theatrical and camp.

 

[OblongChicken]

I wonder if this will provoke a furor too, but...

I can't stand camp people. They're so fucking annoying. True.

 

[old.user4556]

don't see anything wrong with not liking camp people - you get camp straight men too.

If you say you don't like gays, that's a bit non-pc. You're entitled to your opinion though .

 

[Munkey]

My friends camp, he's not gay but he's camp. Still a great guy nonetheless

 

[OblongChicken]

No no no Munkey. Camp people are Bad People.

 

[Gray]

I know a few people that hate that bitch.

Well... they ARE Welsh...