News Italian Cruise ship capsized

[caLLous]

Is the whole ship under marshall law by one man? I highly doubt it.

...if the crew failed to react, or if the corporation had anything to do with it, then no, buck doesn't stop at the captain.

They are not sentences of comprehension.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The f*ck you mean by that?

If you mean that those can't be misunderstood, then no, they can't, but if you learn to read and keep following the discussion, i said "it's stupid then", meaning that i acknowledge how it is, but don't accept how it is.

 

[caLLous]

I understand it and i know how it IS, i didnt' argue it AT ALL

You say you understand the arrangement, but a few posts earlier you clearly didn't because you were doubting it and saying "the buck DOES not stop at the captain". "DOES not", not "SHOULD not".

Edit, ok, strike that then. I didn't realise you were able to change your mind. We should celebrate this moment.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As said; read the discussion, don't cherrypick quotes from before facts are shown.

As in;

Your quotes - before i was told otherwise.
After which, i said fine, then it's just outdated and stupid.

I didn't argue the facts presented.

 

[Mabs]

A man phones the Airfix shop and asks "Do you have a model of an Italian cruise liner"?​

The shop owner replies "Yes we have just one left"​

The man says "Can you put it to one side for me?"​

 

[dysfunction]

Satellite Picture

 

[caLLous]

 

[DaGaffer]

After which, i said fine, then it's just outdated and stupid.

No its not. Its not like the crew have no responsibility, obviously the captain can't be on watch 24/7 so the officer of the watch is responsible for the ship when the Captain is off duty, but just like in any organisation, the Captain is the ultimate authority, and yes, the buck stops with him, just like in any organisation. If the first officer had crashed the ship, he'd be facing charges, but it sounds like the captain was on duty (so he crashed the ship) and then abandoned the passengers (a criminal offence, and not just for the captain, the senior officers can be culpable as well - it depends on their actions).

The captain isn't just the last off the ship because its a long tradition; its because ultimately someone has to be the last off and who else would it logically be? The reason he gets paid the big bucks and wears the fancy hat is precisely because on board a vessel, when shit starts to go wrong, there isn't time to sit down and have a discussion about it; a singular voice that everyone on board defers to is essential. (BTW there have been attempts to run ships differently; the Soviets tried it with a troika of captain, engineer and political officer; it never worked).

The org chart for the running of a vessel has been developed over literally thousands of years, its not outdated, its refined.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's different, that's not "ultimately always the buck stops at captain", that's "if the captain f*cks up the buck stops there", which is to be expected.

And in this case the captain f*cked up.

 

[Chilly]

The org chart for the running of a vessel has been developed over literally thousands of years, its not outdated, its refined.

Ships are bigger than ever and at some point will become too big for one man to run properly.

 

[DaGaffer]

That's different, that's not "ultimately always the buck stops at captain", that's "if the captain f*cks up the buck stops there", which is to be expected.

And in this case the captain f*cked up.

No its both. Individual crew members are all subject to Health and Safety laws, just like in any workplace, but the Captain does take responsibility for the ultimate fate of the ship, its passengers and its crew.

 

[DaGaffer]

Ships are bigger than ever and at some point will become too big for one man to run properly.

One man doesn't "run" a ship now. He just takes responsibility for it. The size of the ship has very little bearing on the number of people required to run it (supertankers have small crews), the complexity of the role the ship carries out defines the levels of management it needs.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No its both. Individual crew members are all subject to Health and Safety laws, just like in any workplace, but the Captain does take responsibility for the ultimate fate of the ship, its passengers and its crew.

And you're saying that if there'a a maniac officer who drives the ship to shore, it's the captains fault and the captain should pay for it?

 

[soze]

Look at the captain of the HMS Astute he got the Sub taken off him because it ran aground. I doubt he was steering the ship when it beached. He might of disciplined the Navigation Officer ect but still cost him his Job.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm just going to nutshell it;

If someone gets punished for other peoples mistakes that they had no hand in, it's outdated and stupid. My opinion, no amtter how it is, end of by me. Rabble on.

On the below; Punished with no liability, yeah, that's reasonable.

 

[DaGaffer]

And you're saying that if there'a a maniac officer who drives the ship to shore, it's the captains fault and the captain should pay for it?

A board of enquiry would probably find the captain innocent under such circumstances, but until the board of enquiry, yes, the captain is responsible. In practice, most boards would still censure the captain for not spotting the nutcase on his bridge, even if they didn't find him liable for the accident itself.

 

[Wij]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...d-pinched-arses-on-sinking-ship-201201194790/

 

[Chilly]

One man doesn't "run" a ship now. He just takes responsibility for it. The size of the ship has very little bearing on the number of people required to run it (supertankers have small crews), the complexity of the role the ship carries out defines the levels of management it needs.

Yep fair enough. My point was that when a ship is so huge that one man cant run it on his own effectively, then how can it be sane/fair/legal to hold him responsible for every problem?

 

[Job]

Love the mashup, Job likes this
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-incredible-sunken-ships?image=18