News Italian Cruise ship capsized

[Scouse]

Nah - he hit a rock further out and then guided the boat to shore to enable easy rescue...

 

[old.Tohtori]

A real man would've driven the ship ON shore

 

[Ceixah]

speed 2-esque,

Must admit I have been kind of following this story a bit, seems a little bit ridiculous all the claims that the ship was 3 miles off course, and it's obviously become a rather large blame game - lets just hope everybody is accounted for - last I saw 15 still missing

 

[Embattle]

Nah - he hit a rock further out and then guided the boat to shore to enable easy rescue...

Yeah I've seen that although he was still far too close to the shore, the problem would appear that by then suddenly coming in to the shore the ship was always going to roll and thus rendering the lifeboats useless at a certain angle/time.

 

[Scouse]

Just saw a report on t3h beeb. People returning to the UK. One reporter said to a mum "you must be very proud of your daughter".


Yeah, I'm proud of everyone who was unintentionally caught up in an accident.

 

[soze]

The news i saw said the ship was on the same course it sailed every week? Has that changed recently?

Edit:
"This route was put in correctly," he said. "The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a manoeuvre by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorised and unknown to Costa.''

Looks like the captain fucked up I still find it hard to believe the ship had no alarms that it was going to make contact though?

 

[caLLous]

Cruise ship captain steered 'off course'

 

[Scouse]

From that article:

[The captain] also denied claims by prosecutors that he left the Costa Concordia before evacuation was complete. "We were the last to leave the ship," Capt Schettino said

Sounds like a standard shoot-the-messenger type operation to me.

 

[Ceixah]

They do seem rather adamant to pin the blame on the captain!

 

[Embattle]

They do seem rather adamant to pin the blame on the captain!

In reality human error is the most common.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

That can only be said by someone that never used Windows ME.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I got the feeling of "blame the cap" from that article too, could be he is guilty as said, but wouldn't the alarm sound on off-course? Even if some nutty get in and changes the course manually?

Is the whole ship under marshall law by one man? I highly doubt it.

 

[caLLous]

I would think that the captain is ultimately responsible for the safety of the ship and the people on it so the buck has to stop with him. Part of the job and all that.

Edit;

All persons on board, including officers and crew, other shipboard staff members, passengers, guests and pilots, are under the captain's authority and are his ultimate responsibility.

...

The captain is ultimately responsible, under the law, for aspects of operation such as the safe navigation of the ship, its cleanliness and seaworthiness, safe handling of all cargo, management of all personnel, inventory of ship's cash and stores, and maintaining the ship's certificates and documentation.

And, as quite a few different sources have said the ship was way off course, unless something extraordinary happened (which you think he might have mentioned by now), it's on him.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's very human to pin blame on something small, instead of larger entities, or several people, but if the crew failed to react, or if the corporation had anything to do with it, then no, buck doesn't stop at the captain.

 

[caLLous]

It really does because he's the captain. That's kinda what "ultimate responsibility" is.

 

[Gumbo]

I got the feeling of "blame the cap" from that article too, could be he is guilty as said, but wouldn't the alarm sound on off-course? Even if some nutty get in and changes the course manually?

Is the whole ship under marshall law by one man? I highly doubt it.

It's Martial, as in military and armed, and no it's not.

On board a ship the captain is more like God.

And yes, it's his responsibility. It always is when a ship goes down, as callous says, the buck stops with him.

A very good friend of mine, growing up, had a Dad who was always first officer in the merchant Navy. He started out of Glasgow when he was 16, and reached First Officer before he was 25. He then retired as a First Officer when he was 65, so 40 years at that rank. I asked him why he never wanted to be a Skipper and he said it's just for the glory boys, who like the hat. The responsibility is not worth it, besides for 30 years of his 40 at that rank he was earning more than the young gun Skippers above him due to time served at sea.

When you're captain and lose a ship like that, in these circumstances, you won't work at sea again, and it looks like he's going to face some hefty jail time for Manslaughter. I just hope they can sort out the manifest fuck ups and don't find many more dead.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's Martial,

Ooh ladidaa

On the rest, it's stupid then. Everyone else can pretty much lollygag around and the cap takes the blame.

It's outdated.

 

[soze]

Ooh ladidaa

On the rest, it's stupid then. Everyone else can pretty much lollygag around and the cap takes the blame.

It's outdated.

Not quite the Captain and the rest of the command structure should find and fire anyone who would fuck about. Also the black box will show who had command of the Bridge when the course correction was made, if its the Captain it is his responsibility to check the Navigators course and make sure its suitable. If it was not the captain then I assume he has a responsibility to check the course and heading periodically anyway.

 

[Scouse]

And yes, it's his responsibility. It always is when a ship goes down, as callous says, the buck stops with him.

So, you don't think that the corporation that runs this cruise bears any responsibility for making someone captain who joined the company in 2002 as an official in charge of security?

He quickly became second in command and then captain in 2006. That's a hell of a career enhancement path

 

[old.Tohtori]

I would think that the reponsibility of the course etc should be divided among more people then one, maybe the structure needs changing then and the responsibility as well.

You know, two people to accept changes or some such. Seems ridicilous that a suicidal capitan could kill a lot of people on a whim.

 

[Gumbo]

No, anyone Lollygagging around would/should be dealt with by the Captain.

This is the thing with the passenger manifest. He shouldn't have put to see without knowing exactly who was on board his ship. Now they have no idea how many they are looking for, and potentially risking the lives of divers looking for people who might be sat at home drinking tea. It's the Captains responsibility to know who is on his ship, no one elses. He can assign staff to arrange it, but it should be his signature on the manifest.

He's a fuckup.

 

[Gumbo]

The thing is, ships have always, and always will operate like this. You can't run a ship by committee or consensus.

 

[old.Tohtori]

"Always has, Always will" is the saying of those who can't adapt to change and don't try to better themselves.

I'm not talking about letting people suffer while they discuss things in a committee, i'm talking about not leaving the choices on one human.

 

[soze]

Loads of things come down to one Human. Presidents, Prime Ministers ect it all has to fall on one person at the end of the day or nothing would get done.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Presidents and prime ministers don't call shots alone, think you mean dictators.

 

[Scouse]

Bad examples there soze.

 

[caLLous]

Oh come on Toht, behave yourself. The Prime Minister, for example, takes responsibility for everything that happens beneath them in the party, it's not about calling shots.

And yes it wasn't a great example but there are many others at every level of business and where leadership is involved.

 

[Gumbo]

Not really bad examples, it's a similar sort of thing. I'm not saying that the Captain is at the gangplank writing peoples names down, any more than he was stood at the wheel when the ship hit the rock. It's merely that it lies at his head. If there is monumental governmental fuck ups it's the head which goes whether they did the fuck up or not. Football managers would be another example. They get sacked all the time when they don't even ever kick a ball.

You either understand this in regards to the sea or you don't I guess. There's no point in trying to change your views.

 

[soze]

The reason I used the President is because the American President has the final say on what could be the biggest yes or no question ever answered. His advisor can say yes or no all they like but the final call to deploy Americas Nukes lies in the hands of one man. That's a bit more power than captain of a boat.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually they don't. They apologise for some f*ckups(not really taking the punishment for it), but most are patsied away, or just brushed under the rug.

You either understand this in regards to the sea or you don't I guess. There's no point in trying to change your views.

I understand it and i know how it IS, i didnt' argue it AT ALL, doesn't remove the fact it's outdated and stupid.

As is one man holding the nukebutton, the worst possible scenario for why it's wrong.