Fact It doesn't pay to help America...

[rynnor]

I don't know. What I do know is that humans do...

No - you merely think you do - you could be a butterfly dreaming or part of a large simulation.

 

[Scouse]

No - you merely think you do - you could be a butterfly dreaming or part of a large simulation.

I amend my previous assertion. I'm 99.99% certain that humans do.

 

[Wij]

Who knows - do plants? do bacteria?

No. There's no possible mechanism for them to experience with. There isn't anything that you could form a hypothesis using. Also there's no evidence to suggest they do therefore any reasonable person can conclude they do not. Its less likely than the existence of Wotan.

 

[Wij]

Based on what? That much depends on its makeup. Radiogenic heat would power convection currents under the ice sheet as liquid warmed at the base rises and is cooled and sinks back again.

Based on scientists and what appears on the Internet duh

 

[rynnor]

Based on scientists and what appears on the Internet duh

Hah - I have studied planetary science and basically every time a new probe goes near a planet we chuck out half of what we knew and pile on some new things in the knowledge that we will be doing the same thing when the next probe goes by. I believe there is a future probe heading out to Europa way - we might know more then but our current knowledge is sketchy.

Hell theres a lot we dont know about our moon come to that - or even our own planet

 

[Wij]

Hah - I have studied planetary science and basically every time a new probe goes near a planet we chuck out half of what we knew and pile on some new things in the knowledge that we will be doing the same thing when the next probe goes by. I believe there is a future probe heading out to Europa way - we might know more then but our current knowledge is sketchy.

Hell theres a lot we dont know about our moon come to that - or even our own planet

Nevertheless, you would still need energy for life, not just heat. Energy from sunlight won't get far below the surface and will be a long way off the warmer zones whether it's from tidal or radiogenic heat. That's why you need thermal vents.

 

[Scouse]

Where did you study planetary science ryn?

And why do you not give a monkeys about our own planet's life if you love the possible other stuff?

 

[rynnor]

Where did you study planetary science ryn?

And why do you not give a monkeys about our own planet's life if you love the possible other stuff?

OU as part of my Earth Science degree - tbh it was not my favourite course because it was clearly in flux and at a pretty primitive stage compared to many other fields of science. Some people might like that but it irks me to be taught things that are quickly out of date.

Tbh my interests are more in life forms that went extinct millions of years ago - I guess familiarity with extinctions has lead to my relaxed attitude to our own

 

[rynnor]

Nevertheless, you would still need energy for life, not just heat. Energy from sunlight won't get far below the surface and will be a long way off the warmer zones whether it's from tidal or radiogenic heat. That's why you need thermal vents.

You can get energy from the convection currents - tbh you'd have to be pretty narrow minded to think that only the ways of life we have so far discovered on this planet are valid in exobiology - we only found out about life at the black smokers in my lifetime - there can be so much more to learn.

 

[Wij]

Energy from convection currents? We're talking about basic replicators here not water mills

 

[Scouse]

OU as part of my Earth Science degree

Cool.

We're still the universe experiencing itself tho

 

[Punishment]

Personally i find it amazing that we have taken a step backwards from space travel by the yanks cutting NASA funding as we are light years ahead technilogically from 1969 and what are we spending effort on, fucking iphones and ipads

We deserve it if a meteor comes from nowhere and we all get owned with our useless gadgets

 

[Scouse]

Despite him having the charisma of Paul Daniels I give him a lot of slack because he built a particle accelerator in his garage when he was 12 years old

 

[rynnor]

Personally i find it amazing that we have taken a step backwards from space travel by the yanks cutting NASA funding as we are light years ahead technilogically from 1969 and what are we spending effort on, fucking iphones and ipads

There are literally hundreds of satellites in orbit above us and their capabilities have increased massively - have you forgotten Hubble or Kepler that is now finding hundreds of planets in other solar systems?

We have sent out tons of probes and even rendevous'ed with an asteroid tumbling through space - for some reason people fail to see how amazing this is?

On sending humans the only thing in our capabilities would be going back to the moon but we have been there a lot and the only thing left to do would be to establish a base but it would cost about as much as the US defecit. It would also be extremely dangerous for those involved - there have been enough issues ensuring a safety line for the ISS without having to have a fleet of backup craft capable of landing on the moon and returning regularly.

 

[Scouse]

I do think the probes we've got tooling around our solar system are amazing and are doing great science. However, I still think sending humans (on planetary missions) is better than sending probes. Just a lot more expensive.

A human can do a bazillion tasks whereas a probe does only the task asked of it. Flexibility is what you get with humans and that's not to be underestimated. Add to that humans are inspirational and have a knock-on effect down here.

 

[Wij]

Twaddle Scouse. They should send pandas and geese. It would just be cooler.

 

[DaGaffer]

I do think the probes we've got tooling around our solar system are amazing and are doing great science. However, I still think sending humans (on planetary missions) is better than sending probes. Just a lot more expensive.

A human can do a bazillion tasks whereas a probe does only the task asked of it. Flexibility is what you get with humans and that's not to be underestimated. Add to that humans are inspirational and have a knock-on effect down here.

Moving meat sacks over inter-planetary distances is orders of magnitude harder than specialist probes though. Not least on the meat sacks themselves. This is why you need the moon base first, and people also need to understand that for a certain proportion of the people going up there, its a one-way trip. A two-three year mission to Mars would probably kill any crew that tried to come back to Earth. A two-three year mission to Mars crewed by people who were permanent Moon residents and never expected to return to Earth, would be a different matter.

 

[Scouse]

Yep. I know that. Lets do it.

 

[Wij]

Yep. I know that. Lets do it.

Ok - I'll get the geese you get the pandas.

 

[Scouse]

I don't think sending pregnant geese into space is going to be that useful, scientifically.

May have some use in the bestial porn industry tho?

 

[Wij]

Geese can be pregnant now?

 

[Scouse]

Anything with you near it is probably "pregnant". Or at least carrying something

 

[Wij]

Trouser-snot is a good feather-conditioner.

 

[Raven]

Little point sending humans to an environment we hardly understand. Probes first, then humans. The problems are food, water and air, plus ofc the effect of lack of gravity on the human body, something they are studying on the space station.

They are already exploring a manned Mars mission, there was that experiment in Russia where they were shut off for a year or something.

It takes a lot of planning and any disaster resulting in crew death would end any hopes of doing it again for decades. The only time it will happen is when it is financially viable, safe and has a point. Semi permanent settlement basically.

 

[Scouse]

... any disaster resulting in crew death would end any hopes of doing it again for decades. The only time it will happen is when it is ... safe ....

Bollocks to that. I can't remember the quote but one of the chaps who went to the moon argued for dangerous space exploration. People are going to die doing it but that should be no excuse to stop people trying.

 

[DaGaffer]

It takes a lot of planning and any disaster resulting in crew death would end any hopes of doing it again for decades. The only time it will happen is when it is financially viable, safe and has a point. Semi permanent settlement basically.

This is what's so frustrating; I guarantee that if everyone died on the first mission to Mars, you'd still have enough qualified personnel volunteering to complete another 50 missions the very next day. Our attitude to risk is all wrong. If we genuinely think we can explore the Solar System without sacrifice we're massively delusional as a species.

 

[Raven]

I'm not agreeing with it but that's the way it is. The Chinese might have a pop at it soon and they aren't overly bothered about sacrifices but who knows what they will get up to if they can pull it off. I can't see America doing it though, the public won't go for it in the current financial climate.

Local space exploration, such as earth orbit and the moon will most probably be funded by tourism, such as Virgin Galactic. Which is only a good thing for space exploration as a whole.

 

[Wij]

I'm not agreeing with it but that's the way it is. The Chinese might have a pop at it soon and they aren't overly bothered about sacrifices but who knows what they will get up to if they can pull it off. I can't see America doing it though, the public won't go for it in the current financial climate.

Local space exploration, such as earth orbit and the moon will most probably be funded by tourism, such as Virgin Galactic. Which is only a good thing for space exploration as a whole.

The Chinese would probably get killed by a Europan sludge-tree.