Question Israel / Palestine - Is this accurate ?

[Poag]

And the british government tools around the world with their massive and well-funded army killing political targets. Even ones they helped put in power like the mujahadeen Taliban.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. If we're getting to that level of "but but but the the government says they're terrorists!!11!" in our arguments are no longer based on the evidence before our own eyes and become based on someone else's opinion...

What? no we didn't. The Americans did. We gave the Americans Blowpipe to give to various local groups, but they ended up using there own stingers instead as blowpipe was dumbfire.

And lets face it, for the years between the Soviet invasion and 9/11, noone gave two shits about Afghanistan apart from Clinton with his missile run in what...95?

 

[Scouse]

no we didn't

Really?

We've been fighting over Afghanistan, on and off, for about 150 years m8...

 

[Gwadien]

Britain, Russia and Afghanistan have always had a brilliant history.

 

[Poag]

Really?

We've been fighting over Afghanistan, on and off, for about 150 years m8...

So...exactly what i said we did. We did. Which didn't get used in the end anyway...has been confirmed....right...

Right. You totally blew my point there mate! Well done!


Oh i dont disagree that when we had India we dicked around there, cos we did. But in more recent history i don't think we've been dicking around the Khyber for a while.


Boop, LA Times circa 1987, British Blowpipes in Afgan. What i cant find atm tho is an article i read later where the Afgans stopped using blowpipe as they weren't heat seeking.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-16/news/mn-3752_1_stingers

 

[Scouse]

[quote="Poag, post: 3924217, member: 3676"Right. You totally blew my point there mate! Well done![/quote]

It simply posted the first article I found - I didn't even read it because there are so many.

But it does describe assistance to the mujahadeen - so we did. And a basic search on Britain / Afghanistan shows we've been after it since the 1800's...

 

[Poag]

[quote="Poag, post: 3924217, member: 3676"Right. You totally blew my point there mate! Well done!

It simply posted the first article I found - I didn't even read it because there are so many.

But it does describe assistance to the mujahadeen - so we did. And a basic search on Britain / Afghanistan shows we've been after it since the 1800's...[/quote]

We did yes. But we didn't get as involved as your implying, which is what i'm trying to say. We offered blowpipe, they took a few, via the Americans, complained they couldn't hit anything, shockingly the same result as our own troops (they were shit missile guidance), the Merkans gave them Stinger instead.

If you wanna get serious about it. Most of the weapons were actually supplied by Soviet sphere countries.

"Weapons supplies were made available through numerous countries; the United States purchased all of Israel's captured Soviet weapons clandestinely, and then funnelled the weapons to the Mujahideen, while Egypt upgraded their own army's weapons, and sent the older weapons to the militants, Turkey sold their World War II stockpiles to the warlords, and the British and Swiss provided Blowpipe missiles and Oerlikon anti-aircraft guns respectively, after they were found to be poor models for their own forces.[23] China provided the most relevant weapons, likely due to their own experience with guerrilla warfare, and kept meticulous record of all the shipments.[23]"

"We immediately launched a twofold process when we heard that the Soviets had entered Afghanistan. The first involved direct reactions and sanctions focused on the Soviet Union, and both the State Department and the National Security Council prepared long lists of sanctions to be adopted, of steps to be taken to increase the international costs to the Soviet Union of their actions. And the second course of action led to my going to Pakistan a month or so after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, for the purpose of coordinating with the Pakistanis a joint response, the purpose of which would be to make the Soviets bleed for as much and as long as is possible; and we engaged in that effort in a collaborative sense with the Saudis, the Egyptians, the British, the Chinese, and we started providing weapons to the Mujaheddin, from various sources again – for example, some Soviet arms from the Egyptians and the Chinese. We even got Soviet arms from the Czechoslovak communist government, since it was obviously susceptible to material incentives; and at some point we started buying arms for the Mujaheddin from the Soviet army in Afghanistan, because that army was increasingly corrupt"

I am referring only to the last 30 years. I know all well and good how "involved" we were in Afganistan during the 1800's and how much blood it cost us, i'm also aware of how we left it....

"The Anglo-Afghan Treaty of 1919[1][2], also known as the Treaty of Rawalpindi, was an armistice made between the United Kingdom and Afghanistan during the Third Anglo-Afghan War.[3] It was signed on 8 August 1919 inRawalpindi, British India (now Pakistan). In the somewhat ambiguous document, the United Kingdom recognised Afghanistan's independence, agreed that British-India would never extend past Khyber Pass, and stopped Britishsubsidies to Afghanistan."

 

[Scouse]

Stephen Hawking hates Israel apparently.

Good on 'im.

 

[rynnor]

Stephen Hawking hates Israel apparently.

Good on 'im.

Yeah but he hates the go compare bloke - I guess in his situation you are excused becoming a little hateful...

 

[Punishment]

It's not hateful, Israel is a right up there with south africa in the 80's and history will not look on them fondly.

 

[fettoken]

Yeah and all of the sudden it is perfectly ok to be anti-semitic. It is so last month.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah and all of the sudden it is perfectly ok to be anti-semitic.

Where's the anti-semitism?

 

[megadave]

Criticising the State of Israel isn't the same as criticising Judiasm. I quite admire Judiasm (as much as i can any religion) but I hope Israel gets fucked.

 

[fettoken]

Where's the anti-semitism?

Sorry, I`ll rephrase. Against Israel as a state/country.

 

[rynnor]

Its just an academics boycott of Israel - academics are often ridiculously impractical lefties whilst simultaneously holding their hands out to big business for research funds

 

[Scouse]

Sorry, I`ll rephrase. Against Israel as a state/country.

What's wrong with being against Israel as a state/country?

 

[fettoken]

Nothing at all, that is what I am saying. Hawkins could have joined in a little earlier, perhaps around the time I created that "thread".

 

[DaGaffer]

Hawking's stance is kind of ironic given that his particle physics colleagues represent one of the few bright spots of co-operation in the middle-east

 

[Scouse]

Hawking's stance is kind of ironic given that his particle physics colleagues represent one of the few bright spots of co-operation in the middle-east

Bright spot of co-operation depends on how you see the situation. I personally think the way to fix the "israel problem" is to wipe Israel off the map as it's clearly a terrible mistake. It should be replaced with a secular-goverened single-state which encompasses the whole shebang - Israelis and Palestinians alike.


As for Hawking - he's protesting the treatment of the palestinian people. Just like we boycotted apartheid. He's making a damaging media statement by not attending a single government-led conference - and fair play to him. It doesn't mean that in the murky greys of politics his colleagues are going to pass up the chance to use a free, unused, synchrotron.



Edit: It's all moot really - Israel doesn't want peace and are still acting like cunts...

 

[Scouse]

Al Jazzle is currently sporting an interesting take on it DaGaffer...

 

[Scouse]

Gah, forgot to add this and too late to edit - Israel have passed a law making it illegal to simply call for boycotts of Israel or the illegal settlements...

According to the law, a person or an organization calling for the boycott of Israel, including the settlements, can be sued by the boycott's targets without having to prove that they sustained damage. The court will then decide how much compensation is to be paid.

Nice.

 

[Punishment]

Lol how Jewish

 

[Job]

So I see Steven Hawkings is now boycotting Israel and Ill say it again..drop a frickin nuke on the lot of them..the world would be a better place.

 

[Punishment]

Or a penny and they would tear each other to pieces over it

 

[old.Tohtori]

Welp, boycotting a country helps as much as players boycotting EA helps them make better choices

Publicity stunt more towards the truth.

 

[Job]

I do believe there's footage of Bush Junior meeting with the Muhajadeen/taliban in the whitehouse, we all thought they were cuddly..like Idi Amin.

 

[DaGaffer]

Al Jazzle is currently sporting an interesting take on it DaGaffer...

I actually don't really give a fuck about any of them tbh; it just seemed a little ironic that physicists seemed to be pretty much the only people putting aside their differences.

 

[Job]

The Jew's are being outrageous, but I think it's safe to say the Palestinians have only got themselves to blame, sending in suicide bombers does not get you on the Christmas card list.