Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

[Raven]

Just been watching the news and the images of starving children in Gaza, kind of reminds me of Nazis persecuting the Jews but now the Jews are the Nazis.

To be fair, there are plenty of Jewish folk against the genocide. The state of Israel is a terrorist state, and its leadership should suffer the same fate as the Nazis, fair trial, and punishment if found guilty.

 

[Scouse]

To be fair, there are plenty of Jewish folk against the genocide. The state of Israel is a terrorist state, and its leadership should suffer the same fate as the Nazis, fair trial, and punishment if found guilty.

This is 100% true - however there are vastly more for it. Which is why Israel as a state that can be so blatant.

 

[Gwadien]

I remember when Russia started moving Ukrainian kids into Russia and the world was like omg genocide and I was surprised to learn that it actually is.

Literally starving to death people getting shot at whilst collecting food and water? Nah.

I'm sure Israel will drop a couple of bombs in another middle Eastern country in the coming days...

 

[Raven]

UN condemns targeted Israeli attack that killed five Al Jazeera journalists

Israel says it targeted correspondent Anas al-Sharif, accusing him of leading a Hamas cell, which Al Jazeera denies.

www.bbc.co.uk

Openly targeting journalists now...

Just checking, is it still antisemitic to take issue with this?

 

[Scouse]

Openly targeting journalists now...

Been doing it for ages.

Just checking, is it still antisemitic to take issue with this?

Any questioning Israel makes you as bad as Jimmy Savile.

 

[Deebs]

Been doing it for ages.


Any questioning Israel makes you as bad as Jimmy Savile.

The way I see it is that Israel has done a full circle, they were the persecuted during WWII now they are taking the role of the Nazis.

 

[Scouse]

Bang goes any possible remaining hope of the lie that was the "two state solution":

Israeli settlement plans will 'bury' idea of Palestinian state, minister says

Far-right Israeli minister Bezalel Smotrich announced approval for 3,401 new homes in the controversial E1 area project in the occupied West Bank.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is Zionism at its best – building, settling and strengthening our sovereignty in the Land of Israel.

Or: "This is apartheid at it's most aggressive, killing non-jews, building on the land we've stolen from them, cutting them off from a shared holy site, destroying their dreams of a return to dignity and self-rule"

And our taxes fund this, whilst our confessed-Zionist Prime Minister Kier Starmer puts hundreds of mostly elderly British people, from all walks of life, including doctors, barristers, magistrates, in prison for peacefully objecting.

 

[Gwadien]

Bang goes any possible remaining hope of the lie that was the "two state solution":

Israeli settlement plans will 'bury' idea of Palestinian state, minister says

Far-right Israeli minister Bezalel Smotrich announced approval for 3,401 new homes in the controversial E1 area project in the occupied West Bank.

www.bbc.co.uk

Or: "This is apartheid at it's most aggressive, killing non-jews, building on the land we've stolen from them, cutting them off from a shared holy site, destroying their dreams of a return to dignity and self-rule"

And our taxes fund this, whilst our confessed-Zionist Prime Minister Kier Starmer puts hundreds of mostly elderly British people, from all walks of life, including doctors, barristers, magistrates, in prison for peacefully objecting.

Smotrich wants to far right nutter things?

Big shock.

 

[Scouse]

Smotrich wants to far right nutter things?

That's a load of crap. This is the Israeli government plan. They're doing it. Far right has nothing to do with it.

And it, of course, is being done with massively popular support - not just of the people in Israel, but of zionists the world over.

 

[Raven]

It was always the masterplan.

 

[Scouse]

It was always the masterplan.

Has been officially since we signed the Balfour declaration in 1912.

 

[DaGaffer]

Has been officially since we signed the Balfour declaration in 1912.

1917.

And the depressing thing is Balfour only did it as yet another carrot to dangle to the Americans to get them into WW1, and he didn't need to do it, and given Britain didn't even govern Palestine in 1917 (it was still part of the Ottoman Empire), it was just hot air, as was Sykes-Piquot, just a bit of fantasy politics.

 

[Scouse]

just a bit of fantasy politics.

Statement of intent. When it could happen, we helped it happen. And we're still defending it even now (which we always would with a fully-signed-up Zionist as PM).


Edit: Oh, and pedant.

(I mean, I checked, and I still wrote 1912)

 

[DaGaffer]

Statement of intent. When it could happen, we helped it happen. And we're still defending it even now (which we always would with a fully-signed-up Zionist as PM).


Edit: Oh, and pedant.

(I mean, I checked, and I still wrote 1912)

Yeah but the weird thing is the British Foreign Office has always been more Arabist/Islamist than Zionist. Always. The Balfour Declaration went against the run of British attitudes going all the way back to the East India Company when Muslims were routinely favoured over Hindus. And the minute Britain had the TransJordan Mandate they were worried about Jewish settlement to the point they'd outright banned any more Jewish immigration in 1939!

If Britain was like the US, I'd at least understand it, but the British establishment is completely schizophrenic about Israel and always has been.

 

[Raven]

Itamar Ben Gvir taunts prominent Palestinian prisoner Marwan Barghouti

Video shows Itamar Ben Gvir telling the most prominent Palestinian prisoner Marwan Barghouti "you will not win".

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel doesn't want peace. Peace would not suit their agenda.

 

[Scouse]

Itamar Ben Gvir taunts prominent Palestinian prisoner Marwan Barghouti

Video shows Itamar Ben Gvir telling the most prominent Palestinian prisoner Marwan Barghouti "you will not win".

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel doesn't want peace. Peace would not suit their agenda.

And they don't release videos like that by accident.

Terrorists being terrorists.

 

[Scouse]

Direct action effective?

Israeli arms manufacturer closes UK facility targeted by Palestine Action

Exclusive: Elbit Systems UK Bristol site was subject of protest days before direct action group was proscribed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Embattle]

I'm no fan of Qatar but it seems Israel can't help itself:

Israel launches airstrikes against top Hamas members in Qatar for Gaza ceasefire talks

Israeli officials say US notified before attack, which Doha calls cowardly and a flagrant violation of international law

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deebs]

I'm no fan of Qatar but it seems Israel can't help itself:

Israel launches airstrikes against top Hamas members in Qatar for Gaza ceasefire talks

Israeli officials say US notified before attack, which Doha calls cowardly and a flagrant violation of international law

www.theguardian.com

Israel just reminds me of cunts who think they are above the law.

 

[Gwadien]

Dunno about you guys, but I fully support the right of Qatar to defend itself.

 

[Scouse]

Israeli army chief fesses up to palestinian casualty count of more than 200,000 and "not once" did law stop them doing what they wanted.

‘We took the gloves off’: ex-IDF chief confirms Gaza casualties over 200,000

Retired general Herzi Halevi says ‘not once’ had legal advice constrained Israel’s military decisions in the strip

www.theguardian.com

Protected by our taxes. Protected by our PM. Protected by Labour - who are putting peaceful UK citizens in jail for this.

 

[Gwadien]

Israeli army chief fesses up to palestinian casualty count of more than 200,000 and "not once" did law stop them doing what they wanted.

‘We took the gloves off’: ex-IDF chief confirms Gaza casualties over 200,000

Retired general Herzi Halevi says ‘not once’ had legal advice constrained Israel’s military decisions in the strip

www.theguardian.com

Protected by our taxes. Protected by our PM. Protected by Labour - who are putting peaceful UK citizens in jail for this.

I still don't get your obsession with Starmer and Labour over this (I do actually, you're just obsessed with going after them.)

It's almost like you're suggesting if they defied the status quo then it'd be a game changer, it's not.

Look at all the other European leaders that are very much anti-Israel over this, yet their actions are token gestures rather than meaningful impact.

Why don't we got after the bloke that could actually have a significant impact, Trump?

Just to make it absolutely clear, I agree, it's fucked that Starmer and Labour do have those views, but I 1, expect every UKGov to have the attitude towards Israel, and 2, they don't have the clout to have any meaningful change.

 

[DaGaffer]

I still don't get your obsession with Starmer and Labour over this (I do actually, you're just obsessed with going after them.)

It's almost like you're suggesting if they defied the status quo then it'd be a game changer, it's not.

Look at all the other European leaders that are very much anti-Israel over this, yet their actions are token gestures rather than meaningful impact.

Why don't we got after the bloke that could actually have a significant impact, Trump?

Just to make it absolutely clear, I agree, it's fucked that Starmer and Labour do have those views, but I 1, expect every UKGov to have the attitude towards Israel, and 2, they don't have the clout to have any meaningful change.

It's hardly surprising is it? The Labour Party was burned to the ground over anti-Semitism only five years ago. They're not going to leave that line of attack open again. I bet most Labour MPs are seething about it, but that's Britain's shitty political landscape for you.

 

[Gwadien]

It's hardly surprising is it? The Labour Party was burned to the ground over anti-Semitism only five years ago. They're not going to leave that line of attack open again. I bet most Labour MPs are seething about it, but that's Britain's shitty political landscape for you.

Agree, but Scouse seems to think it's because Starmer's wife is a Jew.

Which I think has very very little to do with it.

 

[Scouse]

Agree, but Scouse seems to think it's because Starmer's wife is a Jew.

Which I think has very very little to do with it.

Starmer is an avowed Zionist. He's an ex human rights lawyer who said collective punishment of Gazans was fair game. He needs calling out on that abhorrent shit.

Do you think under another PM's watch the Home Secretary would have criminalised thousands of grannies, retired doctors and priests if Starmer wasn't at the helm?

You'd have hoped another PM would be mildly more ethical. The leader of an organisation sets the tone. In a very real, very crucial way. It's not just a title he has.

Labour under Starmer are genocide apologists.

Edit: No. Not apologists. Active supporters.

 

[Scouse]

I still don't get your obsession with Starmer and Labour over this

Look at it this way:

1) You remember that I hated the Tories?
2) You remember I was largely a supporter of Labour under Corbyn?
3) You're aware I hate Labour right now.

So why the support of Labour under Corbyn - who I will accept had some batshit crazy ideas, and detesting of Starmer's Labour?

Corbyn nailed his colours to the mast. He had principles he didn't want to break and his policies were in line with those principles. I may have disagreed with much of it but I could see he was essentially a 'good man' trying his best.

Corbyn's principles allowed for nuance, that left him politically exposed. The antisemitism row that burned him from all sides was simply because he wanted to adopt anti-racist policies but keep criticism of Israel legitimate. The fact he said antisemitism was overblown in Labour was true - we are all totally aware that if people hint at criticising Israel they get hounded by a very powerful, very well funded, very well organised machine.

That's primarily what did for him IMO.

But if Corbyn was in charge now, Britain would not be still supplying Israel with weapons. British councils would be legally allowed to stop buying Israeli produce in support of the BDS movemrnt. Britain's voice at the UN would have been staunchly critical of clear and obvious Israeli Genocide. At the same time, Corbyn would be decrying all forms of racism and publically stating his support for all forms of hate - warning especially against antisemitism at this time.

Under Starmer and his Labour jackboots we're still supplying weapons that are being used in an ongoing Genocide. We're spending millions in taxpayers money locking up peaceful protestors from all over the UK for sitting down holding up anti-genocidal signs. We're rolling back at a more rapid rate than I've ever seen our rights and freedoms.

Starmer's Zionism is absolutely tied up in this. It's an inherently racist, jewish supremacist ideology. And if we drew the venn diagram not all jews would be racist supremacist cunts, but all zionists would be.

Zionism is a very widely spread, widely supported ideology that has amazing helicopter cover because of Hitler's final solution. But make no mistake - it's as viciously a genocidal ideology as any other. Whilst we decrie neo nazis and rightly abhor them, zionism isn't considered with the same kind of opprobium.

The only reason Israel didn't simply wade through gaza with fire and bulldozers is that, despite banning western journalists, we can still see enough of what they're doing. That we've all had the horrors of the holocaust drummed into us and the phrase "never again" is a handbrake on Israel because doing what they'd wish (systematically wiping Gaza "clean") would undermine the very real privileges and protections that they live under because of that.

Starmer and his Labour party are part of the machine that is protecting Israel and enabling and actively supporting this genocide - using the money I give them by working and living in this country.

I'm an unwilling supporter of Genocide. And if you have a job and live in the UK, because of our government's policies, so are you.

 

[Deebs]

Have to say that my view of Israel (The new SS) being cunts is shared by those around me.

 

[Scouse]

I don't really like Owen Jones but there's an eye popping story here about Angela Rayner that's worth the read:

If Labour admitted there is a genocide in Gaza, it would have to admit its own hand in it | Owen Jones

From publicly shunning British Palestinians, to supplying parts for fighter jets, Labour looks increasingly out of step with international opinion, says Guardian columnist Owen Jones

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bodhi]

The good thing about being a Zionist is you don't have to read either The Guardian or Owen Jones' drivel, as you know it's basically going to be Hamas propaganda.

 

[Scouse]

I'd have thought the best thing about being a Zionist @Bodhi is that it's currently the only politically correct form of outright racism that's not only allowed, but encouraged and financially supported in the UK.