Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

[Scouse]

Braverman’s future as home secretary in doubt as No 10 investigates police article

Downing Street says it did not agree to content of article that accused Met police of bias over protests

www.theguardian.com

More calls to sack her, but it'll never happen. At least downing street has distanced itself (barely).

Probably get accused of antisemitic conspiracy but it's perhaps legitimate to ask if Sue-Ellen is "playing favourites" because of her husband. (And maybe Starmer, because of his wife and kids).

Not saying it's the case, but if it was a scientific endeavour they'd have to publish their conflicts of interest.

Although, frankly, I'd disqualify Starmer because he's an Arsenal fan.

 

[Embattle]

Opinion piece from end of October:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/29/opinion/israel-hamas-ceasefire.html

 

[Wij]

Paywalled

 

[Wij]

Galloway, unsurprisingly, also believes in war crimes only if committed Israel:


View: https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1722873271039709481?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Embattle]

Paywalled

Wasn't for me, oh well.

 

[Scouse]

Good on you, Ukraine. You know where your moral voice is.

In other news. 50% of all homes in Gaza have been hit. Entire areas have been flattened.

Israel has basically put a million already-oppressed people into tents.

 

[Scouse]

Israel’s war crimes in Gaza are by design, not default

For Israel, violence is not incidental, accidental or coincidental. It is part and parcel of its colonial DNA.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/shayan86/status/1722958002653634930?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

It occurs to me the problem with that is, is that post fake?

There's literally nothing you can really trust nowadays.

Just finished Player of Games (again) and he has a passage where Banks talks about the problems of trusted information in a world where anything can be faked perfectly. (And trust is really only placed in unimpeachably ethical sources - a subset of the 'minds')

 

[Wij]

It occurs to me the problem with that is, is that post fake?

There's literally nothing you can really trust nowadays.

Just finished Player of Games (again) and he has a passage where Banks talks about the problems of trusted information in a world where anything can be faked perfectly. (And trust is really only placed in unimpeachably ethical sources - a subset of the 'minds')

Well, that account on Twitter is one I trust having watched it in action. Until so someone hijacks it.

Twitter is worse than TikTok now for outright propaganda bollocks since Elon took over. Community Notes aren’t stopping Jackson Hinkle from being its most subscribed account and he is just monetising crap.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://twitter.com/shayan86/status/1722958002653634930?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

My dad showed me a video of some sort of stand in front cenotaph with some bloke shouting, asked me if I thought it was fake which I naturally did and told him to report it.

 

[Wij]

Brass neck:


View: https://twitter.com/ntarnopolsky/status/1723265450589536282?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

Netanyahu sets out uncompromising postwar vision as Israel pounds Gaza

Bombardment appears concentrated around al-Shifa hospital as PM says war is advancing ‘with full force’

www.theguardian.com

And:

Two premature babies die, 37 under threat at Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital

Neonatal intensive care unit stops working at under-siege facility with power outages and no fuel.

www.aljazeera.com

The correct legal and moral response to this by Israel is to stop shelling and sniping at the hospital and provide fuel.

But war criminals will be war criminals eh? Lets import more of their country's goods whilst singing their praises.

 

[Scouse]

Head of the WHO:


View: https://twitter.com/DrTedros/status/1723795481401217509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[Wij]

Given that the Hamas attack was years in the planning and they knew exactly what Netanyahu’s response would be, wasn’t it a but remiss of Hamas not to stockpile fuel for electricity?

(In before accusing me of blaming it all on Palestinians and excusing Israel, but it’s obvious that humanitarian crisis was considered acceptable for the cause by Hamas)

 

[Scouse]

Who gives a fuck what Hamas thinks/did @Wij? We know they're a bunch of religious fuckheads who don't give a fuck about anything.

Meanwhile, Israel has surrounded the main hospital, the patients (including babies) are dying, they're sniping at people in the hospital and when people have tried to evacuate Israel keeps shelling them.

Are we supposed to NOT hold the state of Israel to a higher standard than religious terrorists?

If this was Russia you'd be self-immolating right now. But as it's Israel... "oh, poor poor Israel, laid waste to a million homes, murdering people in hospitals now, won't people just think of the atrocities of hamas? Poor poor Israel! There's only three concerts on in Tel Aviv this weekend. The humanity..."

 

[Wij]

Who gives a fuck what Hamas thinks/did @Wij? We know they're a bunch of religious fuckheads who don't give a fuck about anything.

Meanwhile, Israel has surrounded the main hospital, the patients (including babies) are dying, they're sniping at people in the hospital and when people have tried to evacuate Israel keeps shelling them.

Are we supposed to NOT hold the state of Israel to a higher standard than religious terrorists?

If this was Russia you'd be self-immolating right now. But as it's Israel you are clearly just dandy.

I specifically did not say it was just dandy. It was just an observation that Hamas clearly wanted civilian casualties to be maximised. Are you saying that isn't true?

 

[Scouse]

Amended whilst you were typing.

Obviously true, of course. Because Hamas (a terrorist organisation) knew the State of Israel would choose to show the world it's true face.

That's the face of a war-criminal, genocidal, racist baby-murdering state that refuses to abide by any long-established rules of law (or morality).

Israel is not only happy to slaughter palestinian civilians - it takes a delight in doing so.

 

[Ormorof]

I mean this is what the nutters in Israels government wanted, its what Hamas wanted

As in most wars its the people who just want to get on with their lives most affected

 

[Scouse]

Since I'm answering your questions @Wij - if you'd be so kind:

Are we supposed to NOT hold the state of Israel to a higher standard than religious terrorists?

 

[Wij]

Since I'm answering your questions @Wij - if you'd be so kind:

Obviously, but that doesn't change the point that Hamas was counting on a brutal response and made no preparations to negate it, such as stockpiling fuel and water, because it values its citizens no more than Israel does.

 

[Scouse]

As in most wars its the people who just want to get on with their lives most affected

I wouldn't class this as a war. It's a police action really.

Wars happen between two states. This is the raising of a concentration camp. Some countries have refused Israel's self-defence justification on that and related legal bases.

There's also these sort of analyses that apologists will dismiss out of hand as outageous...

 

[Scouse]

Obviously, but that doesn't change the point that Hamas was counting on a brutal response and made no preparations to negate it, such as stockpiling fuel and water, because it values its citizens no more than Israel does.

And again, it's not a relevant or useful point to anything other than apologists who want to distract from much greater Israeli atrocity going on right now...

 

[Wij]

Spacex Lord Farquaad GIF – Spacex Lord farquaad Sacrifice – discover and share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[Wij]

And again, it's not a relevant or useful point to anything other than apologists who want to distract from much greater Israeli atrocity going on right now...

How can it not be relevant?

 

[Scouse]

How can it not be relevant?

Obviously, because once it has been acknowledged and accepted (it has - completely, 100% - we all know this and have known it ever since hamas put the destruction of Israel in it's founding statements) then constantly harping on about it / creating false equivalences between hamas and Israel etc. just serves as a nice whataboutery tool for apologists. Nothing else.

It's also an irrelevance as hamas has never had any prospect or ability to achieve their aim. They're a fucking pea-shooter against a tank.

A tank that knows it's not shooting at hamas - and is having a fucking great time murdering babies / destroying hospitals / celebrating the destruction of a million homes / the mass-starvation of a subset of it's own civilians whilst presenting itself as a poor helpless victim.

 

[Scouse]

Obviously

Oh. BTW - if we should "obviously" be holding Israel to a higher standard than Hamas (and I agree, we should) then why not a single post attempting to do just that?

 

[Wij]

Obviously, because once it has been acknowledged and accepted (it has - completely, 100% - we all know this and have known it ever since hamas put the destruction of Israel in it's founding statements) then constantly harping on about it / creating false equivalences between hamas and Israel etc. just serves as a nice whataboutery tool for apologists. Nothing else.

It's also an irrelevance as hamas has never had any prospect or ability to achieve their aim. They're a fucking pea-shooter against a tank.

A tank that knows it's not shooting at hamas - and is having a fucking great time murdering babies / destroying hospitals / celebrating the destruction of a million homes / the mass-starvation of a subset of it's own civilians whilst presenting itself as a poor helpless victim.

So, it's relevant but shouldn't be mentioned, because you don't want it to be.

 

[Scouse]

Spacex Lord Farquaad GIF – Spacex Lord farquaad Sacrifice – discover and share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

Is that Netenyahu? He's king of Israel, right, and OK to kill his own civilians when they get uppity?

So, it's relevant but shouldn't be mentioned, because you don't want it to be.

Relevant only to apologists.

Hamas <> justification.

 

[Wij]

Is that Netenyahu? He's king of Israel, right, and OK to kill his own civilians when they get uppity?


Relevant only to apologists.

Hamas <> justification.

No, it's relevant. Full stop. As far as I'm aware this is the Israel/Palestine thread, not the "Things Israel is doing wrong or has done wrong in the past" thread.

You mentioned the hospitals which are fucked and part of that reason is lack of electricity and part of the reason for that is that Hamas was more than willing for the hospitals to run out of electricity.