Is this what society has come to?

Scouse

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The whole "cis" thing has boiled my piss for quite some time.
Really?

I've never paid it enough attention to care. How can you even get worked up about it?
 

DaGaffer

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Really?

I've never paid it enough attention to care. How can you even get worked up about it?
Who decided I needed a prefix? Did I get a say? Did the 99% of humanity who are "cis" get a say? If it was just some affectation by the trans community to create a false parity between themselves and the rest of us, I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest, but it's not, it's becoming an "official" thing with governments talking in these terms, and for what?

The problem I have with all of this is the Orwellian push to redefine language itself, and the chilling effect on debate, "trans women are women" the mantra goes, while at exactly the same time they want society to forget their prefix (when it suits them) they want the rest of society to have one. And we just sleepwalk into it because most of us just want to be nice.
 

Job

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The wife got invited to her bosses last day of term party, which turns out is basically an lbgt pissup and they invite her cos shes straight and pretty.
So no one bats an eyelid at so many senior staff in a girls school being lesbian...which is whatever.
But I picked her up and the frickin faces on them, there are two types of lesbians, men haters and men flirters.
The short haired fat ones go off in a huff and the girly ones are all over me cos Im the only man in the room.
Then a black gay guy turned up.
Seriously it was like Housewives by the sea....big fucking bling house and champagne bottles eveywhere.
 

Scouse

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Who decided I needed a prefix? Did I get a say? Did the 99% of humanity who are "cis" get a say?
Nope. Still don't seem to be able to give a shit about it.

Anyone can define me however they like - it's not going to change anything in my life.
 

Deebs

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Nope. Still don't seem to be able to give a shit about it.

Anyone can define me however they like - it's not going to change anything in my life.
Cunt sounds like a good definition. :p
 

Job

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Cis gets a lot of criticism on both sides because it the opposite of trans and many feel non trans would be more appropriate for acceptance by society on the whole.

Non norm works fine for me or non cis.

I think everyones just pissed off with activists inventing terms and then using them as derogatory in their own bubble, then trying to force it on us all.

They are such a small group that combat is not the way forward for them.
 

Raven

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The wife got invited to her bosses last day of term party, which turns out is basically an lbgt pissup and they invite her cos shes straight and pretty.
So no one bats an eyelid at so many senior staff in a girls school being lesbian...which is whatever.
But I picked her up and the frickin faces on them, there are two types of lesbians, men haters and men flirters.
The short haired fat ones go off in a huff and the girly ones are all over me cos Im the only man in the room.
Then a black gay guy turned up.
Seriously it was like Housewives by the sea....big fucking bling house and champagne bottles eveywhere.
What a funny story.
 

Job

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Sorry that I have them.
 

Wij

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@Wij
Good news.

Even when it's admitting it's wrong though the Guardian keeps using 'assigned male at birth' language though. They don't gp through male puberty because of what some midwife wrote on a form for fuck's sake.
 

Scouse

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Even when it's admitting it's wrong though the Guardian keeps using 'assigned male at birth' language though. They don't gp through male puberty because of what some midwife wrote on a form for fuck's sake.
Went through and checked that quickly- the guardian uses "trans woman and biological woman" multiple times throughout the article. The only mention of "assigned" seemed to be when they quoted from a document (and the document provided clarity on the biological nature).

Methinks your anger is making you see things differently old bean.
 

Wij

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As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”
They were happy to use the language outside of a quote before transitioning into one. It's not anger. It's just that using deliberately misleading terms is wrong.
 

Scouse

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They were happy to use the language outside of a quote before transitioning into one. It's not anger. It's just that using deliberately misleading terms is wrong.
Jeesus christ Wij. You're rabid. In that paragraph they're clearly paraphrasing from the World Rugby working group notes and then finishing off with actual quote.

For the entirity of rest of the article they use trans- and biological-.

You're verging on Job levels of bonkers obsession over this m8. What with trying to find fault sentence-by-sentence then going "aha!" when there's nothing really there :(
 

Wij

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Jeesus christ Wij. You're rabid. In that paragraph they're clearly paraphrasing from the World Rugby working group notes and then finishing off with actual quote.

For the entirity of rest of the article they use trans- and biological-.

You're verging on Job levels of bonkers obsession over this m8. What with trying to find fault sentence-by-sentence then going "aha!" when there's nothing really there :(
You don't find 'assigned male at birth' ridiculous?
 

Scouse

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You don't find 'assigned male at birth' ridiculous?
I'm specifically talking about your accusation against the guardian for their use of language in the article - which is false.

I'm happy to talk to you about this wij but only if you respond to the points I make, rather than simply pushing down other avenues.

Clearly the guardian's use of language in this article was absolutely fine. So why not just say that?
 

Scouse

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You don't find 'assigned male at birth' ridiculous?
Separately from the above:

1) For sex, yes.
2) For gender, no.

When you separate that out, is it that hard?

I mean, that's first-page-of-the-thread stuff.
 

DaGaffer

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Separately from the above:

1) For sex, yes.
2) For gender, no.

When you separate that out, is it that hard?

I mean, that's first-page-of-the-thread stuff.
Don't confuse the two then; reserve the words "male" and "female" for biological purposes and none of this would be happening, but Trans-activists don't want that, they don't want that at all; they want biology to not only be irrelevant, but to be considered actively trans-phobic to even bring it up. And before you go "meh", this is a. not the view of a few extremists, its being pursued as the only narrative, and b. most of the general public are deliberately not being told this explicitly.
 

Wij

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I'm specifically talking about your accusation against the guardian for their use of language in the article - which is false.

I'm happy to talk to you about this wij but only if you respond to the points I make, rather than simply pushing down other avenues.

Clearly the guardian's use of language in this article was absolutely fine. So why not just say that?
Maybe I'm holding them to a higher standard but it was used outside of a direct quote and not challenged. Maybe an explainer for the readers about what 'assigned male at birth' actually means would be good journalistic practice.
 

Wij

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Separately from the above:

1) For sex, yes.
2) For gender, no.

When you separate that out, is it that hard?

I mean, that's first-page-of-the-thread stuff.
It's obvious that when they sex a child at birth they are talking about sex. No one is even attempting to guess what their gender-thetan is and only trans activists pretend that they are.
 

Scouse

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And before you go "meh", this is a. not the view of a few extremists, its being pursued as the only narrative
I don't see that tbh. I see it absolutely as a fringe ask.
 

Wij

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I don't see that tbh. I see it absolutely as a fringe ask.
JK Rowling is being hung out to dry by this 'fringe' including the 3 people whose careers she created.
 

DaGaffer

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I don't see that tbh. I see it absolutely as a fringe ask.
And you're absolutely wrong. Sorry, just go and read the proposed Scottish government Self-ID plan. Biology isn't considered at all. In fact the only way self-ID can work is if biology is completely discounted.
 

Scouse

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And you're absolutely wrong. Sorry, just go and read the proposed Scottish government Self-ID plan. Biology isn't considered at all. In fact the only way self-ID can work is if biology is completely discounted
Their statement on their legal reform (which lags ROI, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, who've not fallen apart at the seams as far as I can tell) seems perfectly reasonable and proportionate:
 

Wij

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Their statement on their legal reform (which lags ROI, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, who've not fallen apart at the seams as far as I can tell) seems perfectly reasonable and proportionate:
The legal context of the other laws around sex-based rights in those countries is different so a direct comparison can be made. What rights a recognition certificate actually affords is a function of other legislation.
 

Scouse

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Considering dogs will fuck your leg, your chair, girl dogs will hump other dogs/cats/goats faces like they're boy dogs, and they'll all happily hump the ground, I think dogs are a poor choice of metaphor for the whole sex/gender/preferences/identification debate ;)
 

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