Infil vs SB

[Teheron]

Repeatedly saying it does not make it true. Proclaiming that 'most' people think, or 'everyone knows' does not make it true.

You are entitled to believe it - but this too does not make it true.

Repeated use of simple rhetoric and linguistic tools may continue the myth and rumour - but again it does not make it true.

Im not saying that i have all the answers here.. cuz im not as one sided as you are.. as ive said before take your own advise and try and think about the possabillity that YOU might be wrong. I dont repeate whine, or trying to make everyone think im right, or trying to make ppl belive in some myth about the crappiness of sb. but apparently thats exactley what you are doing. If you were acually in any way interrested in balance between classes you would alteast listen to other ppls experience and take their arguments and their oppinions into consideration before you make a statement.

Just out of curiosity have you ever played sb? and im not talking about the odd fight where you have borrowed some sb and played for 30 mins. What do u base your oppinion on? wyrds tests? is that all? or du you have any first hand experience? or do you think that its enough to just read a test and then come here and say that all the experience from all the players in mid(that play sb) is just crap?

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Im not saying that i have all the answers here.. cuz im not as one sided as you are.. as ive said before take your own advise and try and think about the possabillity that YOU might be wrong. I dont repeate whine, or trying to make everyone think im right, or trying to make ppl belive in some myth about the crappiness of sb. but apparently thats exactley what you are doing. If you were acually in any way interrested in balance between classes you would alteast listen to other ppls experience and take their arguments and their oppinions into consideration before you make a statement.

Just out of curiosity have you ever played sb? and im not talking about the odd fight where you have borrowed some sb and played for 30 mins. What do u base your oppinion on? wyrds tests? is that all? or du you have any first hand experience? or do you think that its enough to just read a test and then come here and say that all the experience from all the players in mid(that play sb) is just crap?

As i said before - convince me. All the info and data i've seen do not substantiate what the grumblers are saying.

 

[Vodkafairy]

As i said before - convince me. All the info and data i've seen do not substantiate what the grumblers are saying.

third time i ask, gimme the info on your and let me prove you wrong

or are you affraid of the outcome? ill use wyrd's data!

 

[Teheron]

As i said before - convince me. All the info and data i've seen do not substantiate what the grumblers are saying.

noone can convince you of anything aslong as you dont listen/read/comprehend/think when you se some info. But let me ask you this: did la need to be fixed before? ofc it needed to be fixed. but in the beginning did you se any tests? any extensive logs? no. all we had was the regular nerf crys from infs/random albs/hibs but did that meen that there wasnt an inbalance issue? things doesnt just come true when wyrd does tests, there can be stuff that needs to be fixed even if noone has dont any proper testing. but as i said, u cant be convinced until you are willing to open your eyes and accept that you might be wrong 2, that you dont have all the answers...

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

noone can convince you of anything aslong as you dont listen/read/comprehend/think when you se some info. But let me ask you this: did la need to be fixed before? ofc it needed to be fixed. but in the beginning did you se any tests? any extensive logs? no. all we had was the regular nerf crys from infs/random albs/hibs but did that meen that there wasnt an inbalance issue? things doesnt just come true when wyrd does tests, there can be stuff that needs to be fixed even if noone has dont any proper testing. but as i said, u cant be convinced until you are willing to open your eyes and accept that you might be wrong 2, that you dont have all the answers...

As I said - all data points to no significant issue. You think otherwise then fine - balls in your court, get it proved.

 

[Arnor]

hmmm smilepoopy, is it that hard to give a link to the thread you just read? or to give vf the data he needs?

well, its obvious its alot harder then just ignoring the posts that actually ask something from you, or may weaken your castle of ignorance...

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

hmmm smilepoopy, is it that hard to give a link to the thread you just read? or to give vf the data he needs?

well, its obvious its alot harder then just ignoring the posts that actually ask something from you, or may weaken your castle of ignorance...

Crap - missed that.

Multiple posts on vn boards under mid rogues - look for threads started by wyrd.

My data - at work so don't have it - although why its needed I'm unsure as you can get what you need to build models of the cats char builder etc.

 

[tookha]

lol just fuck off already, you're so full of crap it ain't even funny anymore

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

lol just fuck off already, you're so full of crap it ain't even funny anymore

Thank you for your insighful contribution

 

[Teheron]

dont u find it funny that smily.. always says prove it, show tests etc but always fails to answer any questions, give info and links to info. Prolly cuz he lacks the experience and info that hes trying to convince everyone that he has..

 

[tookha]

Thank you for your insighful contribution

np, i try - i really do

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

dont u find it funny that smily.. always says prove it, show tests etc but always fails to answer any questions, give info and links to info. Prolly cuz he lacks the experience and info that hes trying to convince everyone that he has..

Take it or leave its up to you. Makes no difference to me /shrug

 

[Flimgoblin]

Style damage not being affected by LA penalty:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/79857114/?42

Modified spec over 51 has no benefit unless it's a 2h line or you use styles:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/78799461/?467

As much as this argument is going around and around in circles... I'd like to see something a bit better than just "omg infs pwn they hit my SB for 300".

Get an inf and a sb, go somewhere and beat on the same target. Keep as many of the variables the same as possible on both inf and sb.

Now ideally you'd want a pendragon account for that because they have test mobs you can beat on. I'd offer to help but all I have at 50 on pendragon is a heretic

 

[Framfall]

Style damage not being affected by LA penalty:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/79857114/?42

Modified spec over 51 has no benefit unless it's a 2h line or you use styles:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/78799461/?467

As much as this argument is going around and around in circles... I'd like to see something a bit better than just "omg infs pwn they hit my SB for 300".

Get an inf and a sb, go somewhere and beat on the same target. Keep as many of the variables the same as possible on both inf and sb.

Now ideally you'd want a pendragon account for that because they have test mobs you can beat on. I'd offer to help but all I have at 50 on pendragon is a heretic

As much as this argument is going around and around in circles... I'd like to see some better moderating from you.

 

[rvn]

thing is, wyrds test are based on that both the sb and the infil havnt been hit by str/con debuff etc

sb's gain 0 from speccing 100% str weapons, where as infil can specc slash to gain bonus on midd studded/leather (pretty stupid to specc slash as infil imo tho), and due to WS being main factor when doing both pure damage, and not getting evaded/parried/blocked, this has a huge impact.
the specc points give more use than the hp's aswell.
specc af, wich ofcoures can be gotten by sb's too if they use charges.

 

[Jaapi]

So convince me.

Shadowblades, nightshades and (for the love of God) even some infils think so. You think someone would say his own class is overpowered if it wasn't an issue?
Naturally most won't, just like you, because they enjoy it too much, makes you feel superior to "outskill" others in your fairyland.
You think someone would say his own class is overpowered if it wasn't an issue?
You know how things work in life, that just wouldn't happen if there wasn't some truth behind it. So if that doesn't convince you, what would?

 

[Flimgoblin]

As much as this argument is going around and around in circles... I'd like to see some better moderating from you.

if you see a post you think needs to be locked/deleted/whatever - report it - it'll get moderated if it should be.

Mod baiting however will get you banned.

 

[Flimgoblin]

thing is, wyrds test are based on that both the sb and the infil havnt been hit by str/con debuff etc

sb's gain 0 from speccing 100% str weapons, where as infil can specc slash to gain bonus on midd studded/leather (pretty stupid to specc slash as infil imo tho), and due to WS being main factor when doing both pure damage, and not getting evaded/parried/blocked, this has a huge impact.
the specc points give more use than the hp's aswell.
specc af, wich ofcoures can be gotten by sb's too if they use charges.

testing with both classes debuffed would be a good thing to do as well then...

as for armour types you could run a test but if you have the damages on a neutral opponent you can work that out easily enough.

Weaponskill for spec>51 is also false, there's no apparent effect on evade rates (see the second link above)

do the spec points really give that much benefit? considering the spec>51 thing it's not nearly as much as previously thought. Some proper dps testing would show that.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Shadowblades, nightshades and (for the love of God) even some infils think so. You think someone would say his own class is overpowered if it wasn't an issue?
Naturally most won't, just like you, because they enjoy it too much, makes you feel superior to "outskill" others in your fairyland.
You think someone would say his own class is overpowered if it wasn't an issue?
You know how things work in life, that just wouldn't happen if there wasn't some truth behind it. So if that doesn't convince you, what would?

just because 200 people think the world is flat doesn't mean it is...

get some proper controlled testing done - that's convincing though that actually takes some time and effort mind you....

Or you can keep going by hearsay and the odd "omg" screenshot and noone will ever know the actual facts.

 

[Framfall]

if you see a post you think needs to be locked/deleted/whatever - report it - it'll get moderated if it should be.

Mod baiting however will get you banned.

You got me banned like 6 times and still, here I am, I am not baiting you one bit...stop posting in a biased way then and do your work as a moderator ...ok?

And don't hide behind the " I am a mod, don't bait me".

What more proof do you need apart from all the screenies? i bet you read the 1 and the 22th side of this thread and then jumped in as batman? right?

 

[Arnor]

Crap - missed that.

Multiple posts on vn boards under mid rogues - look for threads started by wyrd.

My data - at work so don't have it - although why its needed I'm unsure as you can get what you need to build models of the cats char builder etc.

if you read vf's post, you would see how that would help.

it boils down to: when you get home from work, log on your inf, go find some grey mobs, record your stats and caps etc etc

 

[Flimgoblin]

You got me banned like 6 times and still, here I am, I am not baiting you one bit...stop posting in a biased way then and do your work as a moderator ...ok?

And don't hide behind the " I am a mod, don't bait me".

What more proof do you need apart from all the screenies? i bet you read the 1 and the 22th side of this thread and then jumped in as batman? right?

Right, so posting links to verified testing is bias?

I'm not hiding I'm just stating a fact that if you repeatedly post "OMG FLIMGOBLIN IS A COXXOR MOD AND HE SUCKS!" you'll get banned for being an arse. If you have a problem with my moderation feel free to pm me or even post what your problem is rather than "OMG sux!".

Screenshots are bullshit, I wish I'd screenshotted my 300 mace hit on NF beta - could post that and scream that we need to nerf cleric melee.

Wmv posted a screenshot of an infiltrator dragonfanging for 140 damage - surely that's conclusive proof we need to boost their damage!

Screenshots are not proof of anything. If infils are doing far more damage than sbs or if sbs are doing shite damage then get some logs of it and some decent evidence. That might just make someone listen and adjust things.

 

[Framfall]

Right, so posting links to verified testing is bias?

I'm not hiding I'm just stating a fact that if you repeatedly post "OMG FLIMGOBLIN IS A COXXOR MOD AND HE SUCKS!" you'll get banned for being an arse. If you have a problem with my moderation feel free to pm me or even post what your problem is rather than "OMG sux!".

Screenshots are bullshit, I wish I'd screenshotted my 300 mace hit on NF beta - could post that and scream that we need to nerf cleric melee.

Wmv posted a screenshot of an infiltrator dragonfanging for 140 damage - surely that's conclusive proof we need to boost their damage!

Screenshots are not proof of anything. If infils are doing far more damage than sbs or if sbs are doing shite damage then get some logs of it and some decent evidence. That might just make someone listen and adjust things.

Are you an INF?

You want proof yea...but how about the proof the SB's posted in SCREENSHOTS, no you don't validate them as proof ..but rather as BULLSHIT as they PROVE nothing. what else do you expect on here?

So yes you are extremely BIASED, stay out of the thread and moderate bad language or personal attacks, ok?

 

[Teheron]

Wmv posted a screenshot of an infiltrator dragonfanging for 140 damage - surely that's conclusive proof we need to boost their damage!

hehe doing 140 dmg as a lowest would be "evidence" that u need to be nerfed imo

 

[Arnor]

I'm not hiding I'm just stating a fact that if you repeatedly post "OMG FLIMGOBLIN IS A COXXOR MOD AND HE SUCKS!" you'll get banned for being an arse.

just wondering, but how many times exactly?

 

[Flimgoblin]

hehe doing 140 dmg as a lowest would be "evidence" that u need to be nerfed imo

it was a joke

 

[Flimgoblin]

just wondering, but how many times exactly?

That's for me to know.

 

[Vodkafairy]

posting data will work because you wont believe me when i say infil dps > sb/ns dps. a while ago i did some calculations for my own NS, proving that high cd using taunt style is the same overall dmg output as high cs

style dmg vs offhand hits

but infils have an 'anytime' high dmg style in dw, hence making infil dps superiour to ns/sb's. since you wont believe me when i type it like this, i can show you the calculations using wyrds data, maybe you can accept it then

 

[Flimgoblin]

Are you an INF?

You want proof yea...but how about the proof the SB's posted in SCREENSHOTS, no you don't validate them as proof ..but rather as BULLSHIT as they PROVE nothing. what else do you expect on here?

So yes you are extremely BIASED, stay out of the thread and moderate bad language or personal attacks, ok?

erm where on this thread did it say "only SBs and Infs are allowed to post"? not that I'd pay any attention to it anyway, since this is a public forum. I think you have a very strange idea of what a FH moderator is.

and screenshots prove nothing well they prove little and are as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to balancing.

 

[Arnor]

That's for me to know.

and me to find out? xD