Hybrid human-animals - not science fiction!

old.Tohtori

FH is my second home
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
45,210
Binky,

if i did bounce some motorists, kill some people, get primal on humanities a**, i doubt i'd be standing around apologising to officers :p

I'm not saying that it could go belly up and tits over wall if they did put someanimal thingies in my little bod, but i'd be willing to take the chance.

Ofcourse i'm planning on strapping on a parachute and running towards a tornado too. Not to get me wrong, i don't have adeathwish, i just don't mind death trying to get my purty behind :D
 

Binky the Bomb

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
1,897
No worries bud, you know me, always up for a good debate lol.

Tris-, agreed, if there going to do it, it will come to pass reguardless. Doesn't mean you have to like it (like mobile phones) :D

Roadie: We dont mercelessly hunt down species who preyed on us in the past. True we didn't go and hunt them into extinction, we waited for them to start huning us first, THEN we killed them off.

If we were the weakest species on the planet at any point we would have been wiped out there is no 2 ways about it. we were always able to compete with the other species in our enviroments. We were not the weakest, just the crapest when coming to combat. Remeber, if you can run like a bastard, your chances or survival are greatly increased. :D One of the most basic rules of survival, DONT GET EATEN! We learned to form communities to increase our chances, learn to set traps, THINK our way out of danger. That was our advantage, to learn and adapt. WHeavy rock dropped on top on poor bugger, killed him Would that work on saber tooth tiger?"

I think i could take on a rabbit. You great white hunter, you. Ever try to catch a wild rabbit without tools, fences or aid? Fighting a rabbit is difficult as they are terrific runners,and a damn site more nimble than we are.

If they are so similar to us that they develop weapons and civilisation to rival ours....then yes we would be in trouble but thats quite a huge step from the research they are doing atm. They wouldn't have to develop shit, weve already done the work for them. We have guns, tanks, bombs, building, central heating and food processing plants, all they would have to do is take it off of us.

There will be millions of people there to fight for its rights if that time comes. There was alot in that paragraph to get through, so i'll jut put that in. The concepts of "equality, freedom and rights" are nice things for the law-men and philosiphors, but realy, do you think just becasue someone says tey have to have equal rights that everyone is going to say "Cool, come meet the family neighbour." and greet them warmly. Humans are a pretty intollerant species, towards itself for petty reasons (beleifs, sex, colour, creed or lifestyle. Fuck, i'm guilty of two of those myself.) so the matter of species isn't going to go away, just because they have "rights". Lets face it, we have rasists, facists, sexists, homophobes, chavs and zelots telling us that what they think is right, and what others think is wrong, and usually back it up with violence. You realy, truly think that people like them are just going to let it pass without a fight?

When it comes down to it if it leds to a potentualy profitable treatment/drug then it will be continued if not it wont, without research of this kind we cant improve our care services (including their cost) and through this kind of research we get a better understanding of who we are and what we are made of. Then get some poor bastard from the third world to experiment on. Pay his family for his body (live or otherwise) and test drugs and medical procedures on him, why grow a new species of human just for that. Be far cheaper, and becasue it's an actual human, your going to know exactly how the new drugs and surgery will effect the human body. Seems far simpler that creating a (New) slave species.

Horrified by the suggestion? Good!

Just a though.
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,652
Teren said:
I have the answer to your question!

42

I was going to put on the end
If anyone says 42 I'll kill em, but forgot.

Talking of that what do you think of the new movie, seen the trailers, it looks a bit shite too me

Ford Prefect is a black!!!!
I mean token black guy or what

Marvin just looks silly and his voice just isn't depressed enough, special effects look great, but the original TV series was so nearer the picture I had in my head.
 

Huntingtons

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
10,770
honestly. If Chimpanzee has the equivalent mental abilities and consciousness of a four-year-old human. How the fuck can they then use them for tests, that would be molesting a child? wouldn't it?


i find it frightning - would this then end up with DNA not being valid proof to convict fellons?
 

Mojo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 27, 2004
Messages
1,940
Huntingtons said:
honestly. If Chimpanzee has the equivalent mental abilities and consciousness of a four-year-old human. How the fuck can they then use them for tests, that would be molesting a child? wouldn't it?

Well i dont think Bubbles is pressing charges TBH :eek:
 

haarewin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,756
Roadie said:
Evolution dosnt always happen slowly. Is possiable for a new species to come about within one generation. There is a species of moth that changed its wing colour from white to a dark brown during the start of the industrial revolution and back again shortly after it in the UK.

bollocks.
that particular species of moth has always had white and dark brown wings as its a recessive gene, its just that the ones with dark wings survived better at that point in time because they could blend in with the muck on the trees.
didnt you listen properly in biology?


on the topic of AI, we have no idea what could happen until it does. speculation is great, but its nothing. robots may well kill everyone, but they'd be fucked after a while. a robot has no reason to live.

the human race will eventually wipe itself out, long before the sun explodes.

then the animals will be able to evolve in peace, or whats left, which will be the insects that can survive nuclear fall out.

i agree somewhat with Ezteq, nature wants to balance itself, and people creating half-mice half-humans wont help.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
lol Dil. why is it impossible? ofc in human eyes if we cannot model it on a PC using robot arms and an hiv infected mouse we dont see it as being plausable.
just because we cant do these things with the theory of things coming from nothing, it doesnt mean its impossible.
if you can tell me why its not possible (not inluding just because we cant comprehend it, thats the only reason we say things are impossible) then i will shit in a glass and drink it.
 

Roadie

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
949
haarewin said:
bollocks.
that particular species of moth has always had white and dark brown wings as its a recessive gene, its just that the ones with dark wings survived better at that point in time because they could blend in with the muck on the trees.
didnt you listen properly in biology?

Thats exactly what evolution is, the movement to dominance of recessive/rare features (is the term phenotypes? i dont remember <blush>) for better chances of survival in its envoroment. Didnt you listen?
 

Ezteq

Queen of OT
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
13,457
blimey roadie lol never had some one pay so much attention to what i say before im flattered, i did say im a previous post that this was just my point of view and as far as i am concrened interspecies hybridisation is wrong, im sorry and i think you put foward a great arguement but to me it will always be something deeply disturbing and i dont think i could ever condone it.

""Thats exactly what evolution is, the movement to dominance of recessive/rare features (is the term phenotypes? i dont remember <blush>) for better chances of survival in its envoroment. Didnt you listen?""

i think thats part of a breeding pattern tbh like elephants, they are being born and gowing up with smaller and smaller tusks this isnt speeded up eveloution its more to do with all the males with huge tusks got killed so the only breeding males left were the ones with lil tusks that the poachers didnt want to bother with so they pass the small tusk gene along.

I have to side with binky on the fact that humans are weak its just our minds and tools that make us powerful, if you took a man (and i mean a normal one not rambo) and plonked him in the wild with no tools, clothing or food and made him fend for his self im betting he wouldnt last that long (no he isnt a wilderness expert, he does not know what berrys are poisionous and what mushrooms will kill you and what will sustain you, infact the most he know about mushrooms is some are trippy and most come fried with onions). We arnt very strong, we cant cope with extream temperatures (we get sunstroke in summer and dehydrate, in winter we get colds, flu pneumonia and hypothermia) we dont have claws or teeth to use as proper tools, we're not fast enough to catch an animal with our bare hands either, we tend to get bugs from eating uncooked meat and we are injured very easily, so although we have brilliant minds (most of us) we cant eat with our mind, cant keep ourselves warm just by thinking about it and although we'd like to think we could cope truthfully we couldnt, we could when we were cavemen but then we aquired all these excellant abilities and lost the main animal within that did let us survive in the wild.

The bit about getting rid of genetic mutations that cause illness and disability would be great but we need mutations. If creatures didnt have mutations they dont survive, im not 100% convinced it would be so easy to differenciate between good mutations and bad ones. This does not mean that im saying dont try and make people better, im just saying be careful about it.

And finally, Im afraid i will never be able to appreciate the use of animals in labs/testing on animals it wasnt so long ago people didnt bat an eyelid at the thought of animals being tested for cosmetics ( and sorry but you cant tell me those animals were treated well. they were tortured all so some ladies can have pretty make up) which still happens, i appreciate the difference between cosmetic testing and medical research but (please dont flame me for this) i detest the practice i know there is research going on that is vital and helps a lot of people but there is also stuff going on that is not vital and could be done some other way, people would be disgusted if these tests were done on other people (im thinking of the military tests carried out in the 50's at portman down (sp?) so what makes it right to do it to animals? it is just my opionion but i think we shouldnt subject creatures to anything we're not prepaired to do to ourselves and crys of "But thats barbaric!!" really dont work for me a life is a life no matter how many legs its got.

btw great thread and excellant discussion
:clap:
 

Ezteq

Queen of OT
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
13,457
ack damn me lol what i meant but was too slow to edit it was

""i think thats part of a breeding pattern tbh like elephants, they are being born and gowing up with smaller and smaller tusks is this speeded up eveloution or more to do with all the males with huge tusks got killed so the only breeding males left were the ones with lil tusks that the poachers didnt want to bother with so they pass the small tusk gene along, which is just a kind of selective breeding?""
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
tbh though, the reason we cant kill a leapord with our little toe is because we dont need to. so i dont think you can compare us to animals like that :) animals cant make super computers, because they dont need to.
animals need to kill to survive, we dont thats why we are poo at it.
taking what you said i can spin it round the other way. animals are weak but its their killer instinct that keeps them alive. just like you say we are weak but its our excellent brain power that keeps us alive.
we are animals in the end. just we build houses out of bricks and mortar while animals use twigs.

its all about resources man!
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
but they have killer instinct! if they didnt have huge claws they would still kill us some other way.

killer instinct sounds better tbh so ner ner :p
 

Naetha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,564
Look at all the havoc I create when I read the Guardian :(

Lots of interesting debate going on btw - nice to have my faith in geeks and nerds restored :)
 

Dillinja

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,056
Humans have just as much killer instinct as animals, we just suppress it. Or call it sport, or call it war, or whatever. And we use weapons instead of our own strength because we are physically weak compared to other predatory animals.
 

haarewin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,756
Roadie said:
Thats exactly what evolution is, the movement to dominance of recessive/rare features (is the term phenotypes? i dont remember <blush>) for better chances of survival in its envoroment. Didnt you listen?

genotype says what it will be like, phenotype is the physical expression of that genotype. for example hair color, or in the case of these moths, wing color.
but they didnt EVOLVE to get dark wings then back to light wings over 1 generation, like you said.
there were always ones with dark and light wings. the light ones still exist. so do the dark ones. so yes, i did listen. you just worded yourself badly i think. :p

and again, i agree with Ezteq somewhat. the 'modern man' wouldn't survive in the wilderness unless he had a book telling him what he had to do, and a house with central heating.

Ezteq said:
""i think thats part of a breeding pattern tbh like elephants, they are being born and gowing up with smaller and smaller tusks is this speeded up eveloution or more to do with all the males with huge tusks got killed so the only breeding males left were the ones with lil tusks that the poachers didnt want to bother with so they pass the small tusk gene along, which is just a kind of selective breeding?""

yeah its selective breeding almost.
the small tusk gene is being passed along because the large one cant be, cuz they all get shot before they can spread their seed.
i think its natures way of being cruel to the evil poaching bastards, which is just.. just great :D


im kinda confused on your stance on animal testing. you seem to be implying that if we can test drugs or treatments on animals, its ethically sound to do the same to humans.

in my opinion, its ethically sound to lobotomise & treat lab rats if it helps us cure cancer/hiv/whatever.

[warning controversial opinion]
but nature will just keep 'creating' diseases in an attempt to balance itself.
everyone thats ever done GCSE biology should know that populations do not increase forever, something else big is gonna come round and kill a shitload of people once there is a cure for cancer and hiv. its an inevitability.
 

Roadie

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
949
haarewin said:
genotype says what it will be like, phenotype is the physical expression of that genotype. for example hair color, or in the case of these moths, wing color.
but they didnt EVOLVE to get dark wings then back to light wings over 1 generation, like you said.
there were always ones with dark and light wings. the light ones still exist. so do the dark ones. so yes, i did listen. you just worded yourself badly i think. :p

yeah i did....i ment its possiable for a a new species to occour in one generation, i cant remember what this is called. Where two cells have a problem in divison and get an extra chromasome but instead of reproducing with their own species they reproduce with another and the offspring is able to reproduce (i think there is another step as well it was a few years ago that i covered it).

and a entirely different example of something evolving is the moth thing.

I worded alot of that badly since i posted it pretty late :)
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
10,459
tris- said:
i find it pant wetting fucking hillarious that you pretend to care for the animal welfare but all you actually care about is the human race being over taken by human-made mutants.

i mean LOL.

job: you may think we dont need these developments, so why do you care if they actually happen? do you really think that if the guy wasnt doing this then he would be thinking up theories of the universe, curing cancer etc? ;)


i couldent care less if they DID make animal-human mutants, i will probably be dead and have rotted away LONG before that will ever happend. but thats not really the issue here. the issue is that theese so called scientists are trying to play god. if there will EVER be this kind of mutation, NATURE will fix that herself. the only reason i can think of for doing it ourself is that the ppl that ARE doing it were theese sadistic little retarded 15 year olds that used to boil living puppies "for scientifical reasons" and then go wank thinking about it.... and as u said in a previous post. the ANIMALS cant say NO they just have to accept it. does that make them have no rights? they were born as a mouse/cat/what fucking ever. WE have no right go acually change that.

so theres also not so much their rights as the rights we DO NOT have.


/edit: thinking about bad experiments here, anyone remember how the killer bee in USA came to life? it was some asshat scientist that made them and a really really stupid "save the wildlife" type dude that released them (and got killed by the bees when he cracked the cage open) those bees were also concidered "100% secured"
 

Ezteq

Queen of OT
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
13,457
Ctuchik said:
/edit: thinking about bad experiments here, anyone remember how the killer bee in USA came to life? it was some asshat scientist that made them and a really really stupid "save the wildlife" type dude that released them (and got killed by the bees when he cracked the cage open) those bees were also concidered "100% secured"

lol yeah i believe they crossbread the european honey bee with an african bee and taadaa killer bee (not the smite cleric i hasten to add) the bees are now spreading across america at a phenominal rate and quite a number of folks have been killed by them (this is just from memory but im sure if you google it youll find lots of info) so yep this is a first rate example of what happens when you mess with things you shouldnt....


Additional, Tris i burst out laughing when i read your killer instinct thingy at to of page i just had an image of a really irate snail yelling at a cabbage "Mon Then mofo i got killer instinct! the eye of the tiger!!" <small slimey eye on stalk slowly pokes out> just wanted to share that little mental picture with everyone.
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
10,459
Ezteq said:
Additional, Tris i burst out laughing when i read your killer instinct thingy at to of page i just had an image of a really irate snail yelling at a cabbage "Mon Then mofo i got killer instinct! the eye of the tiger!!" <small slimey eye on stalk slowly pokes out> just wanted to share that little mental picture with everyone.


well that made my day :) thanks :fluffle:
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
if a snail had the speed of a leapord then who says it wouldnt kill you?!
 

haarewin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,756
tris- said:
if a snail had the speed of a leapord then who says it wouldnt kill you?!

the only concievable way anyone could recieve 'death by snail' is choking on it :p
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
yep, so the snail killed you, with its ultra quick speeds and it is resistent to the stomach acid. so then it is able to chew out your stomach. may happen 1 day tbh.
 

haarewin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
2,756
tris- said:
yep, so the snail killed you, with its ultra quick speeds and it is resistent to the stomach acid. so then it is able to chew out your stomach. may happen 1 day tbh.

lmao
 

Ctuchik

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
10,459
tris- said:
animals need to kill to survive, we dont thats why we are poo at it.
taking what you said i can spin it round the other way.


we kill millions of mostly everything eatable every day to survive. cows, pigs, chickens,fish etc etc etc etc just to provide us with meat.. sure we COULD live without it probably. but just eating vegetables is most lilkly not enough to live very long. (good thing perhaps?)
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
by kill i mean not drug the cow with heroin, snare it, drill through its brain then fill its lungs with asbestos to make sure its dead.

by kill i mean go out in the wild and kill an animal with your bare hands, like animals.
 

Binky the Bomb

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
1,897
Going to give you a bit from "Hamlet", a rather odd little bit commonly refered to as the "Paragon of animals"

What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel! In apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me: no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.

Very poetic and yet very a very odd (and accurate) description of humans.
We think were better, just because we've got thumbs, tool weilders and creators of great things. Yet all links back to dust and ash in the final act of existence, creation and destruction in an ever ending cycle. We assume were so much above animals becasue we can understand all these concepts, and yet it is these concepts that lead us to dispare and anguish. (This is 3 days of sobrietry for you. Please bear with me.)

I think what i'm trying to say is, were cursed because we think we can unlock the universe and all it's secrets, creation eternal, life absolute, or (For a slightly different reasoning) to "Piss in gods eye, and take his throne for our own." And trust me, it IS a curse. To try and fail, succed and finad another challenge, to create only to see it destroyed, to feel the highest of highs, and the lowest pits of dispare.

Ever see an animal get depressed? I have, once or twice from our family dog, when everyone else is in a bad mood. Why she feels our gloom is beyond me, but she does all the same, you can see it in her eye's. And yet is everyone is happy, so is she. Why? Because she's been humanised in a small way. Almost all pets do, and it's quite disturbing, "why is she stressed?". I feel quilty when that does happen, as an animal as simple and as loyal as a dog shouldn't share in your woe's, but help bring joy into you life.

And to the point i'm trying to make. Make any animal human in any real sence of the word is like robbing there inocense. Was reading a robotics synopsis today, and something stuck with me. Why, in almost every story, does a robot act, look or mimic humans? Whats the point of the human shape in a machine, it's impractical for most dangerous jobs and not very suitable for hostile enviroments (Why is why scientists want to build them in the first place). So why the human shape? If you want to explore another planet (mars being the typical example) then a 8 foot tall "quadruped" with 1 foot thick armour plating, reinforced structure and every conceivable sensor and scientific measurement device you could muster, along with a powerful communication array, and an interplanetary vehicle to bring it back with. Seems far more sensible than a bloody humaniod shape that needs a lab, repair facility, delicate instruments and a brain 3000 times more powerful than a humans.

Now to our Manimals (For want of a better word), what is the point of humanising them? So they can tell us there depressed, lonely, scared, confused or angry? FFS, your pets do that already, it's not that greater stretch of the imagination. If you humanise animals, they become 'people' same as a robot with a personality (Andriods). They go from "it's" to "they" and thats the distiction between a toaster and an android, and an animal and manimal.

Giving concious thought to an animal is probobly the most sadistic thing we could do to another species. Isn't there enough 'people' around to be shitty to, without creating "species hate"?

- Sorry if this is all disjointed and unstructured, long day and little sleep.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom