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Hybrid human-animals - not science fiction!

Discussion in 'The Front Room' started by Naetha, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. Naetha

    Naetha Fledgling Freddie

    I read this from the Guardian website today (a very respected British newspaper) - it truly makes the mind boggle.

    Are you a man or a mouse?
     
  2. Mojo

    Mojo Fledgling Freddie

    I work with a rl hippocrocamoose :<
     
  3. old.Tohtori

    old.Tohtori FH is my second home

    *is totally excited for an obvious reason*
     
  4. Naetha

    Naetha Fledgling Freddie

    Incidentally it reminded me of this part of Spaced...

     
  5. Outlander

    Outlander Part of the furniture

    Its all so true, for I am part horse :eek6:
    :sex:


    :p
     
  6. Ezteq

    Ezteq Queen of OT

    right as soon as i read this i felt sick "Weissman says that he would keep a tight rein on the mice, and if they showed any signs of humanness he would kill them." Ummm would this not be classified as murder?

    "Bioethicists are already clearing the moral path for human-animal chimeric experiments, arguing that once society gets past the revulsion factor, the prospect of new, partially human creatures has much to offer the human race."

    Bioethics also stands by the philosophy that imperfect humans should be wiped out, whilst a lot of people are all for the irradication of mutations that inhibit people from living a full and healthy life, lots of (if not even the majority of) disabled people do enjoy full happy lives, some poeple liken the bioethisists to nazis saying that what they stand for is a type of cleansing "the feotus may be born disfigured? abort it and it wont be able to pass on the mutation, also whilst your at it sterilise the parents"

    The idea of hybridisation on the whole is wrong, once you combine a mouses dna with human whos to say that the mouse wont then develop a level of self awareness similar to ours? essentially then the mouse becomes a person. And as for the idea of a chimpanzee/human hybrid what will that lead to? chimps are already highly intelligent, have the ability to learn quickly, form complex social groups, use tools.......can you imagine what would happen if these animals got a squirt of extra humanity, the suffering lab animals go through at this time is already unbearable for me to comprehend the "its only a rabbit" mentality was one i was never able to get to grips with, all creatures have feelings, they get scared, they feel affection and they feel an emotion which im sure is not hate but one which is very close to it (thinking of dogs and cats here in particular) now throw some humanity in to the mix and you not only have a creature who is capable of feeling scared but its going to feel so many other more complex emotions, have thoughts that would not naturally occur to it this will increase the suffering of these creatures 1000 fold.

    Eveloution happens slowly for a reason, animals need time to adjust, humans are an animal imagine what would happen if you plugged a person in to a highly complex data base infusing in to them data that they can not process, things they have not been prepared for, images they cant comprehend, what would happen? to be honest they would probably either go insane or enter a state of catatonia where the mind just shuts down to protect its self, now assuming the person entered ths experiment of their own free will knowing the risks and what would be most likely to happen to them, thats fine as it was their choice, animals have no choice and if they were modified to be more human they would infact be slaves.

    Not too long ago in the great scheme of things it was believed that those people that belonged to tribes and lived in other countries were of a very low intelligence, and that if they were taken from their homes, families etc and made to work as slaves (often transported long distances in tortourously poor conditions) beaten, abused... it didnt matter because these "people" (and the term was used loosely)didnt count, they didnt matter, they wernt proper people because they wernt civilised, they definately were to stupid to knwo what was happening to them and heres the best bit "It Was For Their Own Good"


    some of the most evil dispicable things in the history of this planet have been done by people believing they were doing it for the good of humanity, and i believe that this if it is allowed to happen is one of the worst.
     
  7. Binky the Bomb

    Binky the Bomb Fledgling Freddie

    Fucking about with DNA is a bad idea, always has been.

    But creating hybrids via genetic manipulation, big mistake, especially human DNA. And befre anyone starts with the "But it will advance..." argument, it involves the manipulation of human AND animal dna. There are reasons we shouldn't do this, one of which is that any DNA sample taken from you makes you responsible for the end result of the DNA's use. Fancy having to mark down that your related to a mouse? Or worse, your family pet? Explain your way out of that!

    Before we all start making jokes about this, you should think about the wider ramifications of this type of manipulation. You humanise something, and you have to give it rights. We humanised wolfs to create dogs, we had to or they would kill us first chance they got, and they have protected rights within our society. Take that a step further, and we have animals as intelligent as humans, who also will have equal rights to us. Equal employment, ethical and constitutional rights along with other social factors to consideration. We have racism within our society, which means we can't live with humans of a different skin colour, let alone species.

    Then we have the evolution factor. Humans were the weakest animals of the planet before we got smart* and started to wipe out all the other predators on the planet with a sharpened stick. The only thing that makes us better* than other animals is our capacity to think. 1 on 1 with most animals, we'd be killed in a fiar fight, no tools, no weapons. We suck as a combative species, so if we evolve other mammals even slightly, and they come to the conclusion that the world would be better off without us around, were fucked.

    Do you realy want to be shot by a fucking ginger cat with an attitude problem? Want to be ripped to shreds by a real werewolf? or have the shit kicked out of you by gangs of squirels? Seems funny until you realise that if you make them as smart as us, thats whats going to happen.

    And lastly, if we make them as evolved as us, do you REALY think there just going to let us infect them with viruses and diseases willingly?

    Just a thought.

    *= I use these terms loosely, after all "humans are stupid".
     
  8. Escape

    Escape Can't get enough of FH

    oO

    It's worrying to see these experiments happening at all. Of course it always comes down to something noble, like finding a cure for cancer - for those who can afford it and make £Billions for the researcher - all for the good of humanity!

    Disease/illness is a natural form of population control. What happens if everyone lives to 90yrs+, social structures would change entirely, with the younger population using more time to look after the older half. Which would lead to economies collapsing, food shortages and so on...
     
  9. tris-

    tris- Failed Geordie and Parmothief

    good tbh, why does everyone care so much about the animals rights? we will all die. all the animals will die. in time. maybe the animals will take over humans, good for them. i bet you wont be screaming for their protection then will you?

    why does it concern you that these things happen, when there is no choice for them BUT to happen. depends what you believe tbh. i believe everything we invent etc has to be invented and there is no chance at all that we could never of thought of it. anything we discover HAS TO BE DISCOVERD.
    read up on the I Ching, i think its called. its an ancient graph that plots human progression and everything so far has been plottable onto it. ofcourse you will now say "its bound to happen, anything is plottable onto a graph if you believe it will fit onto it"

    you rave about the rights of the animal, yet you shit your self at the prospect of the animal becoming better than us?! the only reason you dont like this is you think (at ezteq in particular) that the animal will one day cage you up and inject you with hiv and the flu.

    :) i would go on but i cant be arsed and my way of thinking is probably not shared by many here. :)
     
  10. old.Tohtori

    old.Tohtori FH is my second home

    I find any tech stuff good.

    F*ck humane ways.
    F*ck morals.
    F*ck ethics.
    Hell...f*ck "god".

    Just bring on the cat reflex-iguana regeneration-gepard speed enhancement and i'll be the first in line to get it :p

    I could explain in a long and hardy way of my opinion, but knowing the boards, i'd be countered with a "stfu you don't know anything about these things and your opinion is wrong" post so, i'll stick with...

    F*ck it...bring on the tech.

    ROAR!
    [​IMG]
     
  11. haarewin

    haarewin Fledgling Freddie

    found it funny that if the mouse displays any human type properties, the researcher promises to kill it.

    not raise it as his child in the basement of his house, feeding it a selection of cheeses that only a human pallet could enjoy.

    me too :x but she's my boss, so i shouldnt slag her off. :D
     
  12. Binky the Bomb

    Binky the Bomb Fledgling Freddie

    Tohtori, despite the tech side of it.......

    Do you realy want to be blended with various animal aspects? Do you want to have cat like reflexes and the overwhelming urge to lick your balls in public?

    The regeneration of an iguana, and the pisser of shedding your skin every year?

    And the leopard speed, year, nice, until you find out you can't use it for more that 40 seconds and collapse with fatigue.

    Nice selection. You'll be the worlds first public ball licking, skin shedding speedster who requires an oxygen tank if he's going to go out for a run. But who can reenerate limbs, dodge blows and run realy fast (if not far).

    Wanna rethink the list bud :D
     
  13. Job

    Job Resident Fuckwit FH Subscriber

    The human race doesn't need super powers or more efficient washing machines or 300 million pixel cameras.
    What we need is the answer to a few simple questions.

    WHY ARE WE HERE? WHY IS THE UNIVERSE HERE?
    WHAT ARE WE DOING?

    Everything we are and everything we do will keep heading us back to these questions.
     
  14. old.Tohtori

    old.Tohtori FH is my second home

    Well, it all depends how much of an animal you take. With advanced tech, certain traits of an animal could be transferred(or just use nanos to mimic it) into a human without the downsides.

    I wouldn't mind shedding my skin every year, would be rather nifty actually to get rid of all the flaws(scars etc) that come.

    Licking my own balls? Damn...you make it sound like it's BAD thing :p

    And the running out of breath, well, i don't think the gepard runs so long that it just keels over and huffs out. Would run as fast as long as you can.

    My list is complete. With white fluffy seel fur ofcourse.

    EDIT: Oh and...about the oxy tank. I would OFCOURSE want an exo suit so i can have cool laser sights, infra red vision scanners and plasma cannons just to add some flavor to my superself :D
     
  15. tris-

    tris- Failed Geordie and Parmothief

    i find it pant wetting fucking hillarious that you pretend to care for the animal welfare but all you actually care about is the human race being over taken by human-made mutants.

    i mean LOL.

    job: you may think we dont need these developments, so why do you care if they actually happen? do you really think that if the guy wasnt doing this then he would be thinking up theories of the universe, curing cancer etc? ;)
     
  16. Ezteq

    Ezteq Queen of OT


    hehehehe sorry but your wrong about this (typing as unflamingly as possible here as just a correction as you dont know me so it might seem that way)

    The reason i am so mortified by this is i actually care deeply about animals, they are one of my main interests in life and im about as scared of an animal caging me up and infecting me with some lethal diesese as i am of my own toenail clippings, what scares the ever living shit out of me is people.

    I want the human race to suceed dont get me wrong its in my own best interest tbh but when they go about doing stuff like this i cant help thinking maybe it would be best if we became extict. Scientists have this thing, kind of a god complex i suspect when i read things like this, dont they see that some things dont cross breed for a reason? if it would benifit the species to cross breed then we'd have developed the ability to do it already, but we havent, and i cant help thinking that when science fucks up the scientists never get the blame they worm out of it by saying they did it in the best intsrests of man.... as i mentioned before there have been a hell of a lot of things people did with the best of intentions that have back fired and fucked the situation up royally, i mean im positive that Hitler had the best intentions, infact some one who was not 100% positive he was doing the absoloute right thing would not have got as far as he did, face it he damn near won and he wouldnt have got half as close if he didnt have faith in what he was doing so just because some one believes whole heartedly that what theyre doing is right and would make the world a better place.... well it doesnt make it right does it?

    everything i have written is my opionion and i am 100% sure that dna hybridisation is wrong, immoral and will only ever have a bad outcome i believe this whole heartedly, however it doesnt mean im right does it?

    As i said before there is nothing that scares me more than people.

    <and btw i already believe that animals are better than people>
     
  17. Binky the Bomb

    Binky the Bomb Fledgling Freddie

    Tris-, your point is valid is some ways, but is naive in others.

    Do you realy think that the next evolution of the human genome (manufactured or natural) is going to just let us sell it into slavery? Do you think that humanised animals are just going to disreguard several million years of abuse by humans? And do you actuallt beleive that there just going to roll over and let us and let them experiment on them without a fight?

    Self preservation should be above all other considerations. Otherwise, tris-, your on the menu.

    Tohtori, the problem with genetics is that you can never be fully sure that the abilities and aspects you want will take hold in a body not designed for them. Only example I can give is chopping up several vehicles to make 1 brand new 'super machine' without fully understanding about stress levels and whatnot. Whats to say that the new abilities don't come with several thousand years of instincts written into the DNA? (Remember, we still know shit about how insticts are passed on). Imagine using your new "super speed" and end up chasing and killing people, or worse, motorists (well, for you if you fuck up the pounce). You think that "Sorry officer, I don't know what came over me!" is going to explain it all? As for using nanotechnology to create these effects, thats fine, plausable, but just as problematic. How do you know they wont burn your body out within weeks if you use the abilities often enough? Or rip itself to peices keeping pace?

    Sorry bud, it sounds good, but realistically it's a bad idea.

    Ranting and ranting and ranting..... man i'm such a kill-joy today. Sorry.
     
  18. tris-

    tris- Failed Geordie and Parmothief

    this is what im trying to get at. you make out like you care for the animal but then you say you only care about humans surviving. you can only care for one or the other in this case :). does it really matter if human/animal combos wipe us all out? as far as your concernd, when you die then its the end of the universe as you currently know it.
    obviously you will disagree, because like i said not many people share the same way of thinking as me.
    now have a beer, shut and up and get killed by the man with the puma head :cheers:

    Ezteq: lol i know you wouldnt of been flaming. but just one thing i have to comment on - "if it would benifit the species to cross breed then we'd have developed the ability to do it already". is that not what the article is about? the ability to do is being developed... just because we are not doing it naturally, through mother nature of what ever you believe in, doesnt mean we are not developing it in someway.
    look at this way, if you will, we evolved, we created science, we stopped evolving, science is now the new way to evolve, science was created because we evolved by natures will. thefore science was created by nature.

    i know i put that in a simple way, but im no expert in putting things into their correct terminology.
     
  19. Binky the Bomb

    Binky the Bomb Fledgling Freddie

    No, i'm pretty sure i've made it clear that if we do make these hybrids, it won't matter what I want, it's what THEY will want. Personally, I couldn't give a shit, just illustrating the point. As for how I die, i'd realy not like to get killed by a half human/ half chimpunk combo, would you? I'd die of embarrisment :D
    Just saying, long term for humanity in general, bad idea. And as for the "now have a beer, shut and up and get killed by the man with the puma head ." NEVER, I shall not be silent (unless I get banned), and as for the guy with the puma head, it'll probobly be Tohtori :D
     
  20. tris-

    tris- Failed Geordie and Parmothief

    i was just being light hearted dude, you can shout and rave as much as your mouse brain would like :)

    in the end, it doesnt matter. some of you will think it does, but there you go. if its happening its because it was intended to. imhoffstbfh
     
  21. Teren

    Teren Loyal Freddie

    I have the answer to your question!

    42
     
  22. Outlander

    Outlander Part of the furniture

    such an unoriginal answer :rolleyes:
     
  23. Morchaoron

    Morchaoron Fledgling Freddie

    i wouldnt mind having a dogs endurance, a cats speed and a eagles eyesight...

    hmmm they could give me a humans intelligence too then while they are at it...
     
  24. Job

    Job Resident Fuckwit FH Subscriber

    On a slightly similair vein.

    Have you seen that drugs are banned in sport, but not surgical enhancements.

    Their is no ruling as yet against basketball players having their legs stretched or marksmen having eye surgery to improve their aim, allready loads have it done.
    Not just to correct bad sight but to make the eye more suitable for looking through sights.

    They reckon soon they can move your tendons around to make you faster or stronger, just as if yu were born with the natural ability.

    Makes a bit of a joke of the whole thing really...so you're a fast runner, I'll just get my legs upgraded and beat you.

    Competing against each other with physical prowess will soon become pointless.

    AND ACTUALLY ALWAYS WAS.
     
  25. Escape

    Escape Can't get enough of FH

    sounds like using buffbots :p
     
  26. harebear

    harebear Fledgling Freddie

    Technology and scientific advancements are cool. The end. =D
     
  27. Garnet

    Garnet Fledgling Freddie

    Our next evolution will be robots. We create AI and they kill us all eventually!

    .... Ive seen too much Terminator ;)
     
  28. Dillinja

    Dillinja Can't get enough of FH

    Even if we did find those answers, I doubt that our brains would be efficient enough to comprehend them. Personally, I don't think there is or ever will be an answer to those questions. The universe itself is the stupidest thing in the universe because it shouldn't even exist. Nothing can create itself out of nothing, NOTHING I TELL YOU!! I don't care what any scientist says, it's just impossible.

    I shouldn't be here. None of you should be here. The Earth shouldn't be here! *head explodes*
     
  29. Morchaoron

    Morchaoron Fledgling Freddie

    what was that theory about that our universe is a projection?

    compare it with a computer program, what if we could give a characther inside a game like HL2 sentience, that he would be able to think like us, he would only be able to see his own world, he will think too about wtf he is doing there and wtf his life is about, for him the borders are his own world, he has no idea WHY his world is build with the things that we call polygons (and our world atoms (or something smaller)), but its there. He could figure out how his universe works but not why and cant even start thinking about whats beyond because he lacks even the slightest piece of knowledge about it
    And what about infinity? what if our characther goes beyond the level, outside the walls and towards the infinity, we could have programmed it so that the characther can go on infinitly outside his level, in that game it would be practically infinite, but in our world it is not, it doesnt even physically exist in our world, its just the machine generating the world as that characther perceives it, generating what he perceives as infinity!!!!

    and maybe, just maybe, our universe is something like that aswell!
     
  30. Roadie

    Roadie Fledgling Freddie

    That artical is very reactionary and pretty one sided rly.

    ok fair enough but you are talking to researchers who are paid specificaly to investigte chimeric research, they rnt very well gona go off on one about other methods unless they are specificaly asked about them :p

    Only very very radical bioethicists hold those kind of opinions. Most can see the difference between bioethics and euthinasia. Also its exactly this kind of genitic research that is ther to try and eliminate forms of deformity, disfigurement and disease. that would otherwise only leave the genepool via drastic methods that might infringe the human rights of those with the disorder.

    Yes the animals dont have a choise but they are treated extreamly well (much better than in most farms etc) and arnt allowed to "suffer". The "its only a rabbit" mentality also is next to never the mentality of the people looking after the animals who genraly get quite attached to the animals and have some respect for them. Compared to farm animals who also dont have a choise for example (who are killed to produce a foodstuff which isnt exactly vital) they genraly lead much more comfortable lives. What makes you think after the new chimp realises exactly whats happened it wouldnt feel enlightened and thankfull? who knows wht it would feel? assuming it would feel depressed and resentfull is a bit of a jump. Animals are alot more savage to each other than we are to them in our lab's.

    Evolution dosnt always happen slowly. Is possiable for a new species to come about within one generation. There is a species of moth that changed its wing colour from white to a dark brown during the start of the industrial revolution and back again shortly after it in the UK. Camparing the way a human brain would deal with being exposed to an overflow of infomation has nothing to do with animals being able to think like humans either most animals followed the same kind of evolutionary pathways as humans and have similar sences so would be exposed to similar kind of infomation as we are. Also all animals which our society uses for whatever reason can already be considered slaves.

    Fair enough but animals already have rights when it comes down to it this ends up as a "why shouldnt animals have the same rights as humans" debate since where do you draw the line with progressivly more human animals?

    Thats total bollocks sorry. If we were the weakest species on the planet at any point we would have been wiped out there is no 2 ways about it. we were always able to compete with the other species in our enviroments. I think i could take on a rabbit. If they are so similar to us that they develop weapons and civilisation to rival ours....then yes we would be in trouble but thats quite a huge step from the research they are doing atm.

    A reason like : they have a different number of chromasomes so they produce infirtile offspring due to the limitations of mitosis (or maeosis i cant remember which). A limitation based on the way we reproduce.

    Why would we have developed the ability to do it already? it would benifit our species to move 4xfaster have pinpoint eyesight and hearing and be able to fly but we cant.

    We dont mercelessly hunt down species who preyed on us in the past. Anything geniticaly manipulated in this way would be a new species and might have some issues with being forced to be used for human gain but the only way it would have an inkling of whats going on is if it was educated by humans. And through its education we would have a hold on it and it might not nesseseraly hate us because its not free to run the woods or whatever. With no means of comunication, no interaction with its own species and no education by its peers it would be like a child in the same position....it might eb able to gradualy work things out but its hardly going to grasp the comcepts which we hold dear in our societys. There will be millions of people there to fight for its rights if that time comes.

    When it comes down to it if it leds to a potentualy profitable treatment/drug then it will be continued if not it wont, without research of this kind we cant improve our care services (including their cost) and through this kind of research we get a better understanding of who we are and what we are made of.
     

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