How to spec a thane for fg rvr?

[Davejohnson]

eithor, just because the thane is a tank, doesnt mean he is not interrupted 90% of a fight..

ragna vs polarrift: spamming polarrift will make you go ooe after 4-5 styles, especially after a slam on the target. that means no end to do more slams on enemytanks (remember you are the bodyguarder here), and it also means you cant be sprinting when following them, which means they will reach a target before you do, which is bad. now i played duact a few times in rvr, and ragnarok did a minimum of 500-600 on any target without bof/baod except heavy tanks, and your '200 dmg less' is 33%damage in this case, which is alot.

and the weaponskill arguement seems void without real facts, what other explanation is there that our norse valk with the same style (granted a bit more qui) does less both melee- and proc-wise?

 

[Arethir]

The difference in base and proc melee damage is singnificant, and in fg RvR you will soon notice how much faster an enemy tank drops when you rakna spam instead of polar rift.

And you are still not explaining how you are getting around the enemies interupting you. MoC doesn't last forever, and if you MoC, your damage is screwed anyways, and you might aswell have the crappy nukes.

DoomHammer and the extra range seems nice, but not remotely nice enough to upweigh the loss of melee damage that actually makes a difference.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Probably will be irrelevant when fighting the professional full groups, but was surpised lastnight at the number of people who just ran away from me, allowing me to spam ragnarok without even a slam.

 

[Nuxtobatns]

U should see how many try and run away from me...and wont quit running even after they get 2-3 DHs...

 

[Poon]

I said you were better off playing a Thane about 3 years ago Duact, glad i see the advice is working out for you :E

 

[Lethul]

I said you were better off playing a Thane about 3 years ago Duact, glad i see the advice is working out for you :E

omg you back playing daoc poon?

 

[Eithor]

duact, yeah the str continue to help both melee and dd proc dmg (except the DoomHammer dd procs dmg, since it's based of pie instead of str).

Overestimate or not, I'm just trying to compare
Yeah, using rr5 or ra's abilities at the right time is hard to know... Balance when to use those, or not to use...

 

[Eithor]

Dave, about all chars/players/classes is gonna get some interruption at them in long (and often short as well) fights.

I suppose a thane would have to use same strategic as pure casters/support, when moc is down to use the nukes. Luckily the thane still got instas, DoomHammer, nice anytime dd proc style, slam, guard, BG, grapple, ST and more, to use when he's unable to nuke.
Or rather the thane could melee, or be at guard/BG duty, or interrupt, or nuke, whatever seems to be the best choice at the moment. The viability... The possible different options.

According to this guy (Brodder, check the vn boards and the thane TL boards after his posts) who worked alot with both mythic staff and different Thane TL's, it's the effective WS that is capped, not the effective str, str continue to help both dd proc dmg and melee dmg.
As said earlier, Mythics coding/thinking ain't rockhard logic (Thanes stuck on both worst WS-table and worst Con-to-HP/HP-table, base class being a viking and all).

Again, with the right stuff, it takes a long time to go out of end, even while sprinting and spamming polar, just have to think ahead a bit (MP 4.0 1-handed sword (or 5.0 2-handed) 40 value end proccing (about half end bar if i remember correct). Pots, Bounty, charges, ra's(long wind for sprinting and second wind for full end recharge).

200 dmg less is when the dd procs hits close to cap from polar (400 dmg from ragna. Ragna 150 dd value and polar 75 dd value). So could be something like this 250 melee, 50 dmg add, 400 dd proc = 700 dmg with ragna, using polar in same situation would be 200 less dmg from dd proc, thus = 500 dmg.
Although normally the dd proc of ragna hits for 300-350 (because of resists etc) and thus polar would do 50% of the dd proc dmg there (150-175).

700 dmg over 500 is quite nice, i'm not opposing that

It's the potential 150-200 extra dmg (the overall dmg and utility-interruption potential)

VS that of:


# the 1800+ range, 1.1 single nuke speed,

# 1700+ range, 1.5 ae-nuke speed

# and the alot better soso dmg compared to the yellow nukes,

# DoomHammer 400-900 dmg (works when rooted, ooe, oop, buffless, while nuked at / interrupted, when someone is whacking a melee weapon at you, while you run). Able to use each 10'th sec,

# red energy proc debuff that bring polars dd proc dmg above 50% of ragnaroks dd proc dmg, without red energy debuff.

# Did i mention farther reaching insta. The frontloading, the ability to lock down the larger part of a full grp thanks to moc and ae-nukes (yes ofc when targets is mezz immune etc).


Thats what i question
Omg, this repeating/spamming is getting sooo boring Oo.

 

[Arethir]

I suppose a thane would have to use same strategic as pure casters/support

However, being a BG'er, you can't really do that can you. And why run away from the enemy to nuke them, when you can simply hit them for 2-4 times the ammount of dmg, without any chance of getting interupted by some random enemy spell.

Really, this is what I'm trying to say. You're a BG'er, not a caster. You can not play a caster/support roll in the group if you want to effectively BG. You'd be out of range and at very bad positions way to often to be able to BG the people who need it. Maybe your spec is viable in a mid caster group or something, but certainly not in the tank/hybrid kinda groups I run in.

 

[Davejohnson]

you dont have to list the thanes abilities over and over again eithor, i know what they are...

but sure, by all means play a thane in a group the way you describe.. but you will need another thane BG'ing you ;PPpPPp

 

[Cromcruaich]

Dave, about all chars/players/classes is gonna get some interruption at them in long (and often short as well) fights.

I suppose a thane would have to use same strategic as pure casters/support, when moc is down to use the nukes. Luckily the thane still got instas, DoomHammer, nice anytime dd proc style, slam, guard, BG, grapple, ST and more, to use when he's unable to nuke.
Or rather the thane could melee, or be at guard/BG duty, or interrupt, or nuke, whatever seems to be the best choice at the moment. The viability... The possible different options.

According to this guy (Brodder, check the vn boards and the thane TL boards after his posts) who worked alot with both mythic staff and different Thane TL's, it's the effective WS that is capped, not the effective str, str continue to help both dd proc dmg and melee dmg.
As said earlier, Mythics coding/thinking ain't rockhard logic (Thanes stuck on both worst WS-table and worst Con-to-HP/HP-table, base class being a viking and all).

Again, with the right stuff, it takes a long time to go out of end, even while sprinting and spamming polar, just have to think ahead a bit (MP 4.0 1-handed sword (or 5.0 2-handed) 40 value end proccing (about half end bar if i remember correct). Pots, Bounty, charges, ra's(long wind for sprinting and second wind for full end recharge).

200 dmg less is when the dd procs hits close to cap from polar (400 dmg from ragna. Ragna 150 dd value and polar 75 dd value). So could be something like this 250 melee, 50 dmg add, 400 dd proc = 700 dmg with ragna, using polar in same situation would be 200 less dmg from dd proc, thus = 500 dmg.
Although normally the dd proc of ragna hits for 300-350 (because of resists etc) and thus polar would do 50% of the dd proc dmg there (150-175).

700 dmg over 500 is quite nice, i'm not opposing that

It's the potential 150-200 extra dmg (the overall dmg and utility-interruption potential)

VS that of:


# the 1800+ range, 1.1 single nuke speed,

# 1700+ range, 1.5 ae-nuke speed

# and the alot better soso dmg compared to the yellow nukes,

# DoomHammer 400-900 dmg (works when rooted, ooe, oop, buffless, while nuked at / interrupted, when someone is whacking a melee weapon at you, while you run). Able to use each 10'th sec,

# red energy proc debuff that bring polars dd proc dmg above 50% of ragnaroks dd proc dmg, without red energy debuff.

# Did i mention farther reaching insta. The frontloading, the ability to lock down the larger part of a full grp thanks to moc and ae-nukes (yes ofc when targets is mezz immune etc).


Thats what i question
Omg, this repeating/spamming is getting sooo boring Oo.

my head hurts!

 

[Punj]

omg you back playing daoc poon?

aye he's back playing a thane on avalon and being just as annoying as ever

 

[Bonehead]

Again, with the right stuff, it takes a long time to go out of end, even while sprinting and spamming polar, just have to think ahead a bit (MP 4.0 1-handed sword (or 5.0 2-handed) 40 value end proccing (about half end bar if i remember correct). Pots, Bounty, charges, ra's(long wind for sprinting and second wind for full end recharge).

40 value means you'll get 40 end. And since you're end bard have 100 end points from scratch (not including +fatigue items) you'll get 40% end.

So you're probebly right when saying "about half end bar".

 

[atos]

Ah, I seem to have missed most of the flames. People seem to have fuckloads of different opinions.

And here is mine.

The thread starter asked for a good grp spec. My advice to you would be to try a melee spec since that would be the easiest one to play. When you get to rr5-6 you can, (if you want) try out a caster spec. Clearly a caster spec involves 50SC and melee spec 50 or 44 or 39wep spec. If you are going for a caster spec for ranged damage or just interupts I would still suggest you go 50SC.

With the boost to thanes you have three things you want but only two of them are avalible to you. Slam, Ragnarrok and Doom Hammer + red spells/buffs.

Play the class the way to want to. Choose the spec which lies closest to your playstyle and grp setup.

This is what I think with my 290days /played and 4½years of trolling forums and playing the thane class.



btw.. people who are on about grp rvr with thanes can just go back to kindergarden. Thanes were basicly nonexistant in setgrps a few patches ago.

 

[Cromcruaich]

After starting to get some good sessions in rvr on avalon, i couldnt imagine not having ragnarok.

Its not just the difference in damage, it's the spike damage - 2 hitting casters with it at times - change that to something that doesnt do so much spike damage and you are giving more time for healers to respond.

It's safe to say i'll be sticking with the 50Sw 42Sh for the foreseeable future.

 

[liloe]

btw.. people who are on about grp rvr with thanes can just go back to kindergarden. Thanes were basicly nonexistant in setgrps a few patches ago.

..and valewalkers and mentas and friars and necros and valkyries and champions....

So why not now? Lots of classes got fixed, so why not let them shine in grp RvR? The "omg you're suddenly rolling fotm while I played this crap for years" jealousy?

 

[Amiga]

So what spec to use then? ;p

 

[Davejohnson]

30 30 30 30 30

 

[Lethul]

So what spec to use then? ;p

50 sword 42 shield rest SC?

 

[Arethir]

I'm 50 sword, 43 shield, 38 SC and some parry. Though you can easy go 39 SC or more parry instead of the extra +1 shield, but I'm a fan of slam

 

[liloe]

Slam from behind, eh? :wub:

 

[Septina]

Slam from behind, eh? :wub:

perv.

 

[liloe]

perv.

Arethir made the perv smiley first :/

 

[Arethir]

Slam from behind, eh? :wub:

It doesn't really matter where you slam from. The thing you should worry about is the rape you'll get from behind of the big one spamming raknarok on your ass