How to kill Savage/healer group?

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grizlasthehero

Guest
I havented used ASD in 3 days maybe once or twice in zerg battles not once in 1fg fights ;)
 
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grizlasthehero

Guest
and btw 2 buffbots per maelstrom gg usualy ;) so no point killing seers we never do buffs :D
 
I

ilum

Guest
1) Win CC
2) Pick correct targets
3) Assist
4) Interrupt
5) Adapt and overcome :)
 
G

gwal

Guest
Originally posted by Lanceloc
Can someone enlighten me please?

It doesnt seem possible 1fg vs 1fg

for albs.. SOS... won fight

thats the easy way of doing it
 
G

Garnet

Guest
Originally posted by grizlasthehero
and btw 2 buffbots per maelstrom gg usualy ;) so no point killing seers we never do buffs :D

you a retard? ofc we kill seers are you can heal, duh
 
G

Groborthir

Guest
Originally posted by Shike
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etc etc etc, debuffs pwn savages badly tbh as with any tank I would guess.

Hehe, why can't the heroes I group with as my eld do like that? :)

By the way, the AoE str/con debuff owns! I managed to debuff Rokan's buffed BM from about 2091hp to 1496hp with a decent crit. :)
 
S

Shike

Guest
Originally posted by Groborthir
Hehe, why can't the heroes I group with as my eld do like that? :)

By the way, the AoE str/con debuff owns! I managed to debuff Rokan's buffed BM from about 2091hp to 1496hp with a decent crit. :)

yep it owns pretty much any tank, add disease ontop of that and the singlestrdebuff...

I debuffed my druid from 269str to 114str and thats no WA at all since I have 0 RP atm on my eldie :>

Disease, instaaoeStr/Condebuff, instastrdebuff, instadexdebuff >>>savage cant hit for crap tbh. Divide work between casters in the group>>>you have a potentially dangerous castergroup :)

Friggin hard to play I think but probably lots of fun :p
 
F

faderullan

Guest
Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Froler i use 5 styles and i was annoying you xD

/point
/point
/point

:D

I use 6 styles...
 
A

Appendix

Guest
Originally posted by faderullan
I use 6 styles...

Well savage only has access to one weapon skill line and many of the styles in H2H är reactionaries, evade and parry. That leaves savage with 2 positionals and taunt that are useful in RvR. Since savage are totally dependant on quad hitting, styling isnt that important. I often found myself doing more dmg with an unstyled quad than a styled single. The back positional is good tho with a stun effect. Apart from not having access to a lot of styles most savages fill the qb with buffs.

Btw everyone whining about 3 assisting savages probably havent been on the recieving end of 3 assisting blademasters. My savage went down in seconds despite them using thrust weapons. tw/flurry for the win...

/em goes back to leveling his new fotm piercemaster on excal
 
Z

Zarmin

Guest
LOL

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
50 shield pala guarding a cleric really does help, well any kind of support really.

Actually having 3 savages quad hitting your cleric and ignoring your block capability makes u worthless sadly :(
 
S

Scunner

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
My druid got killed by a savage/skald/savage team in the time it takes to cast 1 spreadheal on my druid (300 dex, MOTA1 while I popped MOC. Delve of spreadheal is 3.5 second, lets say I cast it in 2.5 second (I am sure its faster but who cares).

So those 3 dudes managed to chunk off 1951 hp on my druid in 2.5 seconds.

That is on a druid with highest AF available to Hibernia and highest absorb. If my druid dies in under 2.5 seconds then just about anything dies in under 5 seconds (incl. hero's who press moose). That's not fun anymore if you see that happen X times a day. It has NOTHING to do with skill/better gameplay with Mids, its just plain out of balance.

I mean, Remi, I fought you quite a few times and your MA (you?) managed to select blademaster first then hero and then bard and still you win. So you play bad and you still win.

I cannot think of a better reason why savages in particular need a nerf. Fix healers ASD, increase timer on insta-PB disease on shamans and you got some balance. Then look at RA's and get a balance in that too (Grouppurge, BAOD, SOS, BOF, PR) and RvR might actually be enjoyable to all 3 realms.

On Prydwen atm RvR is total crap. Some stubborn Hibs, some stubborn Albs and 12 FOTM Mid-groups walking around chatting in /c about their new monsterhits and reporting the location of the stubborn enemies so all 80 Mids can get some RP for the next hour.

Yes this is a whine, but it comes damn close to the truth atm on Prydwen RvR.

yeah my cleric with BOF and 1700 hits fell like a sack of **** in under 5 seconds too so i understand how u feel.
 
M

Maleg_Grumpton

Guest
Good use of defensive shield tank is probably the only chance a Hib group has of taking down a half decent Mid Melee group. Sharwyn and Zell are probably the best two I've seen at it to date (Shar blocked 44+ attacks on me in one fight vs some Albs last night, when they were hitting they were hitting for about 200 main hand 90 ish off hand I think - if you do the math thats a massive amount of HP damage avoided and tied up a couple of tanks for a good few minutes).

Albs have the dilema of end regen though, Pally end regen being the shortest range - still might be more viable to carry end pots and have Pally defensive rather than having him offensive - dunno, don't play Alb well enough to know, but I do know for Hibs a decent shield tank is pivitol at the moment.
 
P

poi

Guest
http://bajs.net/pub/vev/mael_n_valgie.avi

3 fg albs wont even help against a good mid grp.
In this movie both mine and snozski's RA was down( PR, MOC, purge )+ almost oop after fighting 16 hibs like 10 sec before, but we still won.

Lets see if things change after ASD nerf :)


enjoy..
 
P

Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by old.mattshanes
50 shield pala guarding a cleric really does help, well any kind of support really.

It helps, but only because the Mids dont pay attention.

If they would pay attention they would just let 1 savage break off assist-train, get behind the hero and wtfpwn him in 2.3 seconds.

Instead they keep bashing on his shield.
 
P

Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Shike
yep it owns pretty much any tank, add disease ontop of that and the singlestrdebuff...

I debuffed my druid from 269str to 114str and thats no WA at all since I have 0 RP atm on my eldie :>

Disease, instaaoeStr/Condebuff, instastrdebuff, instadexdebuff >>>savage cant hit for crap tbh. Divide work between casters in the group>>>you have a potentially dangerous castergroup :)

Friggin hard to play I think but probably lots of fun :p

Im making a mana-eldritch at the moment, he will have a shitload of Wild Arcana :)
 
S

Shike

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Im making a mana-eldritch at the moment, he will have a shitload of Wild Arcana :)

both me and zell have our eldies ready now for action, will be a laugh I think :)

debuffer, 2 manaelds, 1 chanter, 1s/s, 1bard, 2 droods in casterbased group will be our setup most likely as it seems, we might remove s/s for yet another manaeld too but unsure whether our damages can hold off savages enough yet so will have to try and work it out somehow :p

Dunno why people make chanters at all tbh

with my specc i have:

NS (2.3k range, GREAT for interrupting sorc, healers etc with the extreme castime)
Strong PBAoE and if voidie do his job.. ouchie
Strong DD if debuffed with an added 40% snare that can be chainapplied and actually stops tanks very well :D
Weak AoEDD with 40% snare also
Stun! (still works on healers/skalds/casters etc) and last for a pretty long time if chanter do his job when assisting with the heatdebuff
AoE-Str/Condebuff with a very good effect (insta)
Single-Strdebuff (insta)
Disease (radius 400 and interrupts and snares and strdebuffs)
Dex-Debuff (insta)
DexQui-debuff

I've probably forgotten something... oh and the funfactor of a toon that is capable of so damn much.. probably skyhigh :) add in some RAs, huzzaa :)
 
O

ovi-one

Guest
Originally posted by Shike


Dunno why people make chanters at all tbh


Pets.

Most enemy groups (of any realm, inc Hib) have at least 3, often more, spell users (casters and healers...) that need to be interupted.

Best Hibbie setup (imo) 2xChanter, 1xmana Eld, 1x Void Eld, 1 s/s Hero, 2xDruid (1xReg/Nurt, 1xReg/Nat) and 1 Bard. I believe that this has the potential to be the strongest set-up from any realm. Swapping a Chanter for another Mana Eld is very workable, but I feel the loss of the pet means the group isn't quite as good.

As the Albs and Mids tell us Chanter pets are overpowered and GP is over-powered, this set-up gives 2 of each :) as well as 2 Druid pets :)

However, as anyone playing in a caster group can tell you, this is not easy to play. It relies on RA's being up (especially MoC), and also good target selection by all classes (No point assisting when sending pets to attack).

I for one don't think that Hib is underpowered, BUT our best groups take more skill to play reasonably well which means our low RR casual players find it harder to RvR.
 
A

Alyssania

Guest
Well my pally was once guarding our cleric and she has 42 shield+ MoB3. Worked well until the mids realised I was blocking too much then they changed target to me other ran through me and before the backstun weared off from me I was dead. :)

So it only helps for sometime and it usually also leaves group without end since the range is short and these days most people wont let 2 pallys in the groups. ;)
 
S

Shike

Guest
Originally posted by ovi-one
Pets.

Most enemy groups (of any realm, inc Hib) have at least 3, often more, spell users (casters and healers...) that need to be interupted.

Best Hibbie setup (imo) 2xChanter, 1xmana Eld, 1x Void Eld, 1 s/s Hero, 2xDruid (1xReg/Nurt, 1xReg/Nat) and 1 Bard. I believe that this has the potential to be the strongest set-up from any realm. Swapping a Chanter for another Mana Eld is very workable, but I feel the loss of the pet means the group isn't quite as good.

As the Albs and Mids tell us Chanter pets are overpowered and GP is over-powered, this set-up gives 2 of each :) as well as 2 Druid pets :)

However, as anyone playing in a caster group can tell you, this is not easy to play. It relies on RA's being up (especially MoC), and also good target selection by all classes (No point assisting when sending pets to attack).

I for one don't think that Hib is underpowered, BUT our best groups take more skill to play reasonably well which means our low RR casual players find it harder to RvR.

yes pets are nifty, tho chanter suffer a massive penalty for pure nuking since they tend to be manaspecced. Elds can still nuke with the speccDD and voidie can also debuff for it which in the end will result in more dps overall over time. Dont forget chanters heatdebuff will be nerfed very soon and thus the only thing they can contribute with of real value with is BAoD (which also get nerfed) and PBAoE. With 2 druids and 1 chanter you'll have 3 pets anyhow already so I think 1 chanter is more than enough. Firepower and stamina (manawise) is more important I feel. Still, ofc 2 chanter works out aswell probably.

Pro with 2 elds are also: one designated diseaser and aoeDDspammer to slow tanktrains down until they reach the pbae, one debuffer of str/con, NS CC and healertypes etc. I think 1 manaeld have problems to do all tasks needed when RVR is so fastpaced as it is today :)

and yes, skill-lvl has to be very very high for it to work out well, the guarder has to be very very fast with his work aswell. Dozy tank means mages are dead in a few seconds most likely.
 
S

Scunner

Guest
Originally posted by grizlasthehero
I havented used ASD in 3 days maybe once or twice in zerg battles not once in 1fg fights ;)

thats BS u have done it every fight today.

roll on 1.63, ur perfectly allowed to use it jsut dont post that u dont when u do :D
 
A

Arnor

Guest
Originally posted by Aule Valar
savage/healer grps wouldn't be too bad
now healer/shammy/warrior/skald/savage, thats tricky ^^

:ROFLMAO:
 
H

Heffer

Guest
Originally posted by Lanceloc
A mega high defensive shield paladin, fully buffed guarding a cleric might help yeah Froler :)
Will have to try that out.

when i cba to be Xeanors bitch it works great on sorcs with engage on!
 
O

old.mattshanes

Guest
Originally posted by faderullan
I use 6 styles...

Slash merc- amethyst slash/diamond slash/backslash/flank/shadow's rain/ dual shadows

Thrust merc- sting/pierce/dual shadows/flank/shadow's rain

H2H savage- wild call/clan's call/kelgor's fist/kelgor's wrath

Can put dragonfang on merc qb if they have high dodger or evade often, savage qb needs shouts on it so can only have not so many styles but those 4 are best in rvr and slash merc has 6 due to the anytime style chain.

Guarding arms/pala does very good things for a group, but yes savages can get behind and stun then kill them but i have had palas tanking 3 at a time for 1min+ in my group, i seen heroes do the same too when trying to attack a druid.

You just got to make sure they do not get behind that shield o_O
 
H

Heffer

Guest
Originally posted by old.mattshanes
i have had palas tanking 3 at a time for 1min+ in my group

heh i also tanked 5hib tanks 2mids for 3mins+ dunno how but ardrias wasnt best pleased that day at hw hmg o_O
 
I

ilum

Guest
How to beat a 3 healer 1 shaman 1 skald 3savage/2savage+1 warrior group?

1. Optimize your set-up too. i.e. 2 clerics 1 paladin 1 sorcerer 1 minstrel, 3 spots for tanks or 2tanks + theurgist. Or something.

2. Get the AE mezz off.

3. Pick the right targets. (Pac healer first normally). Rekill when they ress.

4. Use BOF/SOS Wisely.

5. Protect the support with CC / guard.

6. Clerics try to hide for spreadheals.

If the Mid plays well so must you to beat them. There is a skill aspect in the game. I do believe that Midgard has it slightly easier at the moment, but I think the ASD nerf coming very soon as well as the Savage balance changes are gonna do the needed tweaking.

Paladin guard is nice, but the end chant only has 1000 range. So if tanks have to run off to kill people and you are back with the Savages blocking and intercepting eventually they go OOE. Afaik the response to the Pally TL said the endchant would be given equal range of Shaman / Bard so we have something to look forward to there as well.
 
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old.willowywicca

Guest
best way is probably to /assist on the MA savage (having 1 person to PF the others in the assist train may be helpful too..)

savages die faster than healers, tho this is dependant on something (lul,pet,general ae's) interupting the healers/shaman

also as stated before, when you kill a healer you achieve nothing ( PR -> they're healer is back to full power, you've done a favour :p ) when you kill a savage or other tank off they've had a serious drop in offensive power because savage unbuffed is pretty crap :)
 
M

Maleg_Grumpton

Guest
Originally posted by ilum
Afaik the response to the Pally TL said the endchant would be given equal range of Shaman / Bard so we have something to look forward to there as well.
Group End Regen range is different for the 3 classes, AFAIK it's as follows:

Pally: Insta chant, drains power, range 1000
Shaman: Castable buff*, range 1000 on cast but 1500 for End regen (not confirmed)
Bard: Song (3 sec cast time), Range 2000

*(not sure if it takes conc, but seems to subtract from the amount of buffs you can cast)

I think Mythic logic (if it exists) is Albion gets it's End regen on a Tank class with insta chant thus is penalised by having the shortest range and power drain. Mids is conc. based and thus switched on before battle but on a semi-squishy class (if you can catch the kitting feckers) thus gets a slightly better range. Hibs is the only End regen type that can be prevented from being started (3 sec interuptable song to get it up - pardon the pun) on the squishest class (for end regen) with "gank me quick" instruments - thus has the best range with the only penalty being you have to wield an instrument.

One could argue this is negated by Hibs running with two bards, and yes it does work but a Hib group has to sacrifise something for that bonus - Albs could probably do the same by running with two Pallys again they'd be sacrifising.

All I can say is if they give Pallys 2000 range on end regen I hope they make Bard End song an insta chant.
 
I

ilum

Guest
Originally posted by Maleg_Grumpton
Group End Regen range is different for the 3 classes, AFAIK it's as follows:

Pally: Insta chant, drains power, range 1000
Shaman: Castable buff*, range 1000 on cast but 1500 for End regen (not confirmed)
Bard: Song (3 sec cast time), Range 2000

*(not sure if it takes conc, but seems to subtract from the amount of buffs you can cast)

I think Mythic logic (if it exists) is Albion gets it's End regen on a Tank class with insta chant thus is penalised by having the shortest range and power drain. Mids is conc. based and thus switched on before battle but on a semi-squishy class (if you can catch the kitting feckers) thus gets a slightly better range. Hibs is the only End regen type that can be prevented from being started (3 sec interuptable song to get it up - pardon the pun) on the squishest class (for end regen) with "gank me quick" instruments - thus has the best range with the only penalty being you have to wield an instrument.

One could argue this is negated by Hibs running with two bards, and yes it does work but a Hib group has to sacrifise something for that bonus - Albs could probably do the same by running with two Pallys again they'd be sacrifising.

All I can say is if they give Pallys 2000 range on end regen I hope they make Bard End song an insta chant.

Maybe that was the initial thought, but Mythic wanna increase end range now atleast :)
 

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