How can this be balanced?

[Jaond]

At rr7 this is the spec i use atm:
50 weapon
44 leftaxe
32 stealth
30 env

A rr7 infil can spec:
50 weapon
50 dualwield
21 critical strike
32 stealth
30 env

So at same rr a infil get acces to pa and 50 in dw while im at 44la and nothing in cs, thats great

Now a liddul fotmgimp goes to emain at rr2 with this spec:
50 thrust
50 dualwield
34 stealth
35 env

So a rr2 infil get's a better spec then a rr7 sb thats really balanced dont you think? Oh but thank you mythic for my 50 extra hp /rude

Nerf 2.5spec points

 

[kirennia]

They already said they went too far with the nerf on SBs.
Pretty much everyone on these boards say it isn't balanced anymore.

Yet the same whine still keeps coming up? But LAxe was way overpowered for 12+ months, so give it time and it'll be fixed, just like we had to...

 

[bigmammas]

I have the same problem with my nightshade againts infils, one dragonfang and its "release" time.

Rather than nerfing infils they should improve the other stealth classes...

Just my 2 cents

 

[saltymcpepper]

http://vnboards.ign.com/Bedevere/b20662/61765996/?0
watch this.

i just stoped whining about infils, i know its hard, but they are going to be nerfed hard, and everyone has realised now

 

[Loxleyhood]

I thought I said there would be none of this here.

 

[Jaond]

I have the same problem with my nightshade againts infils, one dragonfang and its "release" time.

Rather than nerfing infils they should improve the other stealth classes...

Just my 2 cents

Nah nerf stealthers way to many around...

 

[Jaond]

I thought I said there would be none of this here.

Well no1 else say a shit here so...

 

[Jupitus]

Threads where people discuss the merits/disadvantages of their classes are fine provided they do that and don't just descend to 'nerf this, nerf that, buff this, buff that' rambling without reasoning/evidence to support the claims. Threads that don't have such 'valid' content will be removed.

 

[Brynn]

Obvious you didn't hold your nose and plunge into RVR discussions on BW. This is what it all is like

 

[Glottis]

Well no1 else say a shit here so...

So boring...
I say, if SB's get some loving, scouts should get perma TS for one year.
Just like those lame SB's ran around with perma sprint, unstealthed, and hitting for 400hp per swing, ganking iping tanks...
Yawn, shut up, take it in the ass, and wait your turn to be uber again.
Infs are fine, ns are fine, sb's are slightly underpowered. But you gimps whine so much, you want people to think that SB's are gimped.
You had your fun, you now have a little less fun. Big deal. Go roll a savage...
Regards, Glottis

 

[Jiggs]

no one who experienced pre-LA nerf SBs has any sympathy^^

 

[Daws]

no one who experienced pre-LA nerf SBs has any sympathy^^

Of course not Although I do think that my cleric being able to kill solo SBs is a bit silly

 

[Czaedes]

With that mentality Glottis you're pretty much saying you're not looking to get a balanced game at all. I don't want to see Infils put down to uselessness, but evening out the stealthers wouldn't hurt too much would it?

Personally I find it rather silly that a pure heavy tank often has to rely on IP to have a slight chance of taking down an assasin that doesn't even use a critical strike (ala mercifiltrator; a result from 2.5spec pts).

Infils will get hit hard though, just hope they don't overdo it too much this time :/

2.2 spec pts and DF put to second in a chain and perhaps a bit shorter duration, 6-7 secs or so. At least this would mean sacrificing something to get 50 in a line as every other assasin does.

 

[gunner440]

take this situation and rewind time back 1year

it was the rr1 sbs who doublefrosted the high rr infils :/

 

[Czaedes]

^^ Still that doesn't jusity keeping the game unbalanced... In my opinion :/

 

[Powahhh]

it was the rr1 sbs who doublefrosted the high rr infils :/

and not only infils....
ppls seem to forgot the very near past...they whine cause they are a BIT gimpo now....but they forgot that in all the way to their rr8++ for about 1 year sbs where taking into grps as tanks when no zerker was available on the mtk....
sad mids
let them root 1y into gimpness so they will feel a bit how is to get pwned from a rr2noobfortehwin1!23!45!!!67!!89!1


ps. also what you need the balance? u do not have the gutts to run solo....

 

[Czaedes]

ps. also what you need the balance? u do not have the gutts to run solo....

Just wish more Infils thought the same Pow... You're pretty much the only infil (/stealther) that runs solo these days it seems :/

/respect

 

[Glottis]

With that mentality Glottis you're pretty much saying you're not looking to get a balanced game at all. I don't want to see Infils put down to uselessness, but evening out the stealthers wouldn't hurt too much would it?

Personally I find it rather silly that a pure heavy tank often has to rely on IP to have a slight chance of taking down an assasin that doesn't even use a critical strike (ala mercifiltrator; a result from 2.5spec pts).

You mention a mercfiltrator, but the same would go for a NS or a SB.
It has more to do with the way that debuff works than critical strike.
The debuff will hit after the strike hit the opponent. So imagine an inf attacking someone with critical strike. He hits for 500hp damage, and only then does the debuff hit. The con/str debuff will lower the victim's hp with around 500hp if the victim would have been at 100% hp. Basically, using critical strike is not required as it does no real damage. The sb/ns/inf could have used a regular hit (anytime) and still done similar damage.
The follow up stun is pretty nice though.

But you guys are so quick to forget how insanely overpowered SB's were pre nerf. I would PA/CD some perma sprinting SB around dcx, get in several free whacks, and it would still be a damn close fight (I played a slash inf, fully buffed). I could PA/CD an SB and there would still be a very real chance I would lose.
So you mind if people are not too eager to give back some decent times to SB's again? My scout had to suffer for around 1 year of SH and LA hell...
I hope SB's would have to suffer likewise, but right now SB's are still not suffering like infs or scouts or any other Alb class have suffered...
SB's won't get much sympathy really. Specially not from me.
The overpowered Mid crap Albs have to put up with seems endless.
But anyway, look for ways to boost SB's directly, rather than indirectly by nerfing a specific class (in this case infs).
A well played SB can still do fine against an inf, it just takes a little more practice.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Czaedes]

I fully agree SBs were FAR over the top pre nerf. However I do think the whole assasis idea has to be redone. Personally I see an assasin as someone who strikes quickly and hard from stealth, who also relies on their critical strikes. Not some invisible light tank that can unstealth, run up to her/his target and beat the crap out of her. This is a problem with most assasins, however it is obviously infils that are most outstanding as they perform so insanely well without their critical strikes. They have superior styles compared to SBs and especially compared to Shades. They also have the ability to spec a line to 50 without sacrificing anything.

Also the fact that all 3 alb stealthers have access to a 9 sec stun "for free" (apart from scouts perhaps who give up their melee skills) is a bit more than annoying.

 

[Jaond]

I never said that sb's should get love, we are balanced or maybe alittle overpowerd compared to how a rogue should be imo, but we got our nerf and now should infils.

If you cant see how overpowerd infils are just take a look at how many plays one. Same as savage every mid play a savage.

 

[Glottis]

If you cant see how overpowerd infils are just take a look at how many plays one. Same as savage every mid play a savage.

Last time the .xml was working, and I did check, SB/inf population was the same in absolute numbers, despite the higher Alb population.
So not a very good comparison tool I would say for your point.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Daws]

With that mentality Glottis you're pretty much saying you're not looking to get a balanced game at all. I don't want to see Infils put down to uselessness, but evening out the stealthers wouldn't hurt too much would it?

Personally I find it rather silly that a pure heavy tank often has to rely on IP to have a slight chance of taking down an assasin that doesn't even use a critical strike (ala mercifiltrator; a result from 2.5spec pts).

Infils will get hit hard though, just hope they don't overdo it too much this time :/

2.2 spec pts and DF put to second in a chain and perhaps a bit shorter duration, 6-7 secs or so. At least this would mean sacrificing something to get 50 in a line as every other assasin does.

The only reasons tanks have to rely on IP is that almost all stealthers will be buffed to the teeth with red con buffs, and if the tank isn't buffed then he has no chance to be honest. There was a video of a nightshade camping atk and completely owning every soloer that walked out, reason? He had red buffs so they had no chance at all.

 

[behatch]

and not only infils....
ppls seem to forgot the very near past...they whine cause they are a BIT gimpo now....but they forgot that in all the way to their rr8++ for about 1 year sbs where taking into grps as tanks when no zerker was available on the mtk....
sad mids
let them root 1y into gimpness so they will feel a bit how is to get pwned from a rr2noobfortehwin1!23!45!!!67!!89!1


ps. also what you need the balance? u do not have the gutts to run solo....

i seem to remeber you zerging me at mmg gate when i was solo,do yourself a favour and stop saying you solo

 

[stubbyrulz]

glottis u play sbfoff u that little iconni slash infil aint u :> i beat u with my thane when u were buffed and i was unbuffed(cept self buffs) btw they should probly tone df down atm cos thats whats giving infils the edge imo

:edit: o yeh he was also solo which quite good for an infil :>

 

[Vodkafairy]

df aint the problem now the mercfils have been invented, even with purge, ap and an af charge up i still lose against most rr5+ infils unless im really lucky

 

[stubbyrulz]

wasent one of the reasons that sb's where nerfed because they were completly ignoring the cs line and just starting combat with an anytime that + the insane dmg

 

[Jaond]

glottis u play sbfoff u that little iconni slash infil aint u :> i beat u with my thane when u were buffed and i was unbuffed(cept self buffs) btw they should probly tone df down atm cos thats whats giving infils the edge imo

:edit: o yeh he was also solo which quite good for an infil :>

Sbfoff is saracen and never solo

 

[Glottis]

glottis u play sbfoff u that little iconni slash infil aint u :> i beat u with my thane when u were buffed and i was unbuffed(cept self buffs) btw they should probly tone df down atm cos thats whats giving infils the edge imo

:edit: o yeh he was also solo which quite good for an infil :>

Sbfoff is saracen and never solo

Before you start talking nonsense
My slash inf is of Briton descent.
I hardly ever play it. I got it to rr5 pre LA nerf, and will most likely leave it at rr5, maybe play it till rr6. I prefer to play my scout or minstrel to be honest.
And I'm pretty sure I died to loads of people. I die non stop because I try to play in Emain which is very hard as a solo/duo character. Allmost every fight is interrupted by a fg enemies.
The alternative is to be slaughtered by the NS/ranger zerg in Odin's, but it is becoming more tempting
Regards, Glottis

 

[Tay]

At rr7 this is the spec i use atm:
50 weapon
44 leftaxe
32 stealth
30 env

A rr7 infil can spec:
50 weapon
50 dualwield
21 critical strike
32 stealth
30 env

So at same rr a infil get acces to pa and 50 in dw while im at 44la and nothing in cs, thats great

Now a liddul fotmgimp goes to emain at rr2 with this spec:
50 thrust
50 dualwield
34 stealth
35 env

So a rr2 infil get's a better spec then a rr7 sb thats really balanced dont you think? Oh but thank you mythic for my 50 extra hp /rude

Nerf 2.5spec points

Whats your ws and hp?

 

[Czaedes]

Last time the .xml was working, and I did check, SB/inf population was the same in absolute numbers, despite the higher Alb population.
So not a very good comparison tool I would say for your point.
Regards, Glottis

Of course the SB population is insanely high, however that's a result from their powers pre-LA nerf. If the .xmls only showed peeps logged in the past week I would think the numbers would be a bit different.

What I think many SBs/Shades are annoyed with is the fact that an Infil has more or less everything except the best RAs.
They have the option to spec both thrust and slash. Shades can, however the silly low str of an elf/luri and with nothing really special about the line makes it not worth going for. The bladeshades also suffer terribly from str/con debuffs.
The Shadowblades don't even have thrust weapons to choose with, leaving their only dmg modifier as str. The lack of dex debuffs hurts the SB quite a lot due to this. The SBs RAs (like most Mid RAs) are purely ridiculous.
So now to the infils... They have both high str and high dex races available to them (unlike Shades). They also have the option to choose dex or str based weapons (unlike SBs). They also get the best styles by far of all assasins. To top this off, they get 2.5 spec pts, making them able to put a line all the way to 50 without sacrificing anything at all compared to the other assasins. Their RAs aren't as good as Shades undeniably, but they are of more use than the SBs.

Everything is put to the Infils favor. Mid and Hib also suffer from the fact that we don't have a Mincer equallent with stealth, speed, mez, ablative chants, dd shouts, wep skills etc which makes them terribly deadly in stealther duos and makes it more or less impossible for any of Mid/Hibs stealther duos to stand a chance against a Mincer + Infil/Scout. And as I noted above, all alb stealthers have access to a 9 sec stun each, guarenteeing you will be stunned if you come across one. Adds to the annoyance a bit to be honest...