h2h savages

[parzi]

celerity is castable with 1000 range, no you dont have it everytime in rvr, cause healers also have to heal and stuff, and tanks are more often out of 1000 range then not.

dont forget the fact that friars add to a group (basebuffs resist buffs, cure disease, and maybe some gimp heals) , while savages take away extra healing power even if they are not hit.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Re: Re: Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by ulke
Hmm, you are comparing a class that can give buffs, resists, rezz, and heal with a pure meleeclass...hmm..
You pay a price for that, savages dont pay that, becouse we dont get anything else than doing dmg

The dmg a 2h-savage does is on average higher than 300, I can admit that

Friar'r role in a fg is mainly do damage n resists buffs every 10min.
Think i saw a friar healing a cleric once........

 

[dakeyras]

You also have to factor in the ability of a group to absorb damage.

Last night I was hitting an RR7 Inconnu sorc whilst fully buffed for 30 damage. That was with 100%qual TG weapons. If you fight Albs on pryd you are always facing BoF+Ablative chant. Even when the Alb groups win, if they have blown both BoF's they will run back to pk for a 30min afk.

Short while later was hitting a RR10L10 druid for 309 with the same slashers. Hib scale wearers take alot of damage from H2H savs. But even using TG thrusters against Alb chain the damage is ridiculously low. The fact that Alb/Excal has alot of random pickup groups cannot be used to balance world-wide classes. When I am grouped with clerics like Nyn and Sey, and they pop BoF, it is only really pre-1.62 zerkers that pose a threat while it is active.

Any damage assessment has to look at the bigger picture and take into account ALL tools available in a fight.

 

[stunned]

I wonder why we face so little BoF on excalibur. Seriously not meant as a flame.

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by Arnor
dmg doesnt get nerfed afaik, its the opportunity to do a backstyle attack that gets nerfed

could have been random #3943 untrue whine thread too

 

[j0ker]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
If you don't use the buffs offensive instead of 'last resort' I think you're playing the wrong class :/

Why in heavens name NOT use the class-defining features the savage has to offer ??

Some people just can't stop to amaze me...

basically it's a right pain in the ass to switch qbars in the middle of getting whacked, fire off 4 or five buffs, switch back and start whacking again. plus I keep forgetting (have same trouble with my hunter, keep forgetting I respecced to IP until after I'm dead)

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by j0ker
basically it's a right pain in the ass to switch qbars in the middle of getting whacked, fire off 4 or five buffs, switch back and start whacking again. plus I keep forgetting (have same trouble with my hunter, keep forgetting I respecced to IP until after I'm dead)

As said above, you don't fire 4 or 5. You fire 3 and rarely touch others. You put those in 3 slots on your main QB.

You then learn the /qbar macro.

 

[old.Lethul]

Originally posted by j0ker
my buffs are a sort of last resort.

If it looks like I'm going down, I think to hell with it and fire off the buffs.

I lose hp quick enough from getting hit without throwing them away on abilities that dont seem to make much difference in fg fights.

if it was a case of fire off the buffs and I cant be stopped, I'm sure I'd use them a lot more

then thats why you are only rr2 mate.. hp doenst drop until buffs drop.. and my end buff does about 90% off the bar, what your savagery spec at anyway? =)

 

[bishibosh]

Originally posted by old.Crategus
from vnboards... lol, so true:

"I read on another thread that if the savage was in Albion and the reaver was in Midgard the savage would be "balanced" and people would be screaming for reaver nerfs. I totally agree with that guy."

;]

ok lets do basics, raw dmg, theyre a fighter after all
reavers front dmg - 100-200
savages front dmg - 400-1400 and 2X faster.

dont need any logs or anything its blatent fact
/bow

 

[Qte Eth]

yeah albs are good at stating "facts"

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by old.Lythande
/yawn this is like watching VNboard re-runs. My advice, PLAY one yourself and see what it's like.

Yeah, this is just another "whine about a Mid class that gets to beat us sometimes" thread. None of the people whining and whining in here about Savages in here have ever played one; they have no idea how inconsistently Savs hit, they bitch and moan about Savagery while conveniently forgetting that every self-buff you use takes away your HPs all too soon and that with only 1.5 skill points per lvl it's hard to get high weapon skill and Savagery happening anyway, and that they have no decent "anytime" style...to listen to the Rank 10 whining in here you'd think that every time a Savage walks onto the battlefield, it goes "RRAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!" and one-shots everything in its path before proceeding to sit down and pick its nose or something (actually a very bad plan with those things still attached to its hands...).

Look people, every class has its strengths and its weaknesses. You play a class in a game that revolves around team-play...instead of whining and whining and WHINING about every other realm's class that has the temerity to actually drop you sometimes, just shut the fuck up with the whining, grow the fuck up, realise that as a unit you will always be stronger than any one realm's class and learn to fight that way. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of each class you face and learn to take them down with SKILL, not get the class ruined by throwing your toys out of the pram until it gets nerfed to death.

Your caster got munched by a savage? Boo hoo. Shouldn't have gone 1 on 1 with a Melee class, then. Where were your tanks?
If my Warrior goes 1 on 1 with a caster I crush it...but hey, I have 1,800 HPs unbuffed and a big fucking axe, go figure...if I go 1 on 1 with a tank I stand a 50/50 chance of winning or (gasp! shock!) losing. If I lose to a Paladin I don't go "WAAAAAA! NERF CHANTS THEY MAKE PALADINS OVERPOWERED!" I realise that they're an awesome defensive tank, that's the cool thing about Pallies, and their chants are THEIR defining class characteristic. Realising and accepting that it's OK for other realms' classes to have strengths is a good thing; it makes you realise that YOUR classes have defining characteristics (hell, my main is a Warrior, we don't even really have that but I love 'em anyway) and strengths too. Scary concept, huh?

Hey, maybe that Savage is worried as hell about your caster's mezzes and ranged attacks...maybe that Bonedancer is paranoid that your Merc has figured out the way to drop BDs...in just the same way that your caster is worried about the Savage's supposed ultramegauberdmg, and the Merc is worried about trying to drop all those little skellies at once...try looking at it that way instead of worrying so much that one of some other realm's classes might do something better than one of yours, and you'll enjoy this game a lot more.

 

[Novamir]

i have played a level 50 savage, and they are indeed stupidly overpowered.. quad hits must be at 25-30% now (and none of the good positionals are hard to pull off)

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by svartmetall
Yeah, this is just another "whine about a Mid class that gets to beat us sometimes" thread. None of the people whining and whining in here about Savages in here have ever played one; they have no idea how inconsistently Savs hit, they bitch and moan about Savagery while conveniently forgetting that every self-buff you use takes away your HPs all too soon and that with only 1.5 skill points per lvl it's hard to get high weapon skill and Savagery happening anyway, and that they have no decent "anytime" style...to listen to the Rank 10 whining in here you'd think that every time a Savage walks onto the battlefield, it goes "RRAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!" and one-shots everything in its path before proceeding to sit down and pick its nose or something (actually a very bad plan with those things still attached to its hands...).

OK, now make it a 2h savage. Suddenly the hits are very consistent. Considering savages only have to spec 3 lines it sounds sensible to give 1.5x. Friars have to spec 4 lines and also get 1.5x.

Your caster got munched by a savage? Boo hoo. Shouldn't have gone 1 on 1 with a Melee class, then. Where were your tanks?
If my Warrior goes 1 on 1 with a caster I crush it...but hey, I have 1,800 HPs unbuffed and a big fucking axe, go figure...

Yes, tanks have a very good chance to PROTECT a caster against another tank nowadays.. They can slam and that's about it.. Purge changed that.. And slamming a savage is like... ok good luck, here go try 1-2-3-4 wow slammed, ooh damn, caster 1 and 2 are dead.

if I go 1 on 1 with a tank I stand a 50/50 chance of winning or (gasp! shock!) losing. If I lose to a Paladin I don't go "WAAAAAA! NERF CHANTS THEY MAKE PALADINS OVERPOWERED!" I realise that they're an awesome defensive tank, that's the cool thing about Pallies, and their chants are THEIR defining class characteristic.

Yes, and their chants make them a hybrid. They're comparable to the savage things, but they don't are hybrids ~rollseyes~

Realising and accepting that it's OK for other realms' classes to have strengths is a good thing; it makes you realise that YOUR classes have defining characteristics (hell, my main is a Warrior, we don't even really have that but I love 'em anyway) and strengths too. Scary concept, huh?
Hey, maybe that Savage is worried as hell about your caster's mezzes and ranged attacks...maybe that Bonedancer is paranoid that your Merc has figured out the way to drop BDs...in just the same way that your caster is worried about the Savage's supposed ultramegauberdmg, and the Merc is worried about trying to drop all those little skellies at once...try looking at it that way instead of worrying so much that one of some other realm's classes might do something better than one of yours, and you'll enjoy this game a lot more.

Savages got tremendous offense and defense AND benefit from cheap tank RA's.

And swinging a 2hand weapon at cap speed makes no sense either to be honest :/

 

[old.Lethul]

ps. 2h savages dont cap puppet, they swing at about 2.0ish seconds.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Yes, and their chants make them a hybrid. They're comparable to the savage things, but they don't are hybrids ~rollseyes~

this is something you can discuss back and forth, savagery line are abilities(they appear in the place for abilities in game) and atm mythic doesnt sees that a melee'er with abilities is a hybrid, but its still a tank (off course excluding stealthers from this). Paladin has chants which are seen as spells, so they are hybrids.

and novamir sorry to say but quad hits ARE around 10%, it has been tested by many savages and they always turn out 10% and that was also before people were crying nerf savages, but savages were considering wether to go 2h or H2H. Quad hits appear to be to high but single hits appear also to be to high and triple to low. In the end h2h savages as they are now are are doing on average the amount of swing per round they are supposed to be doing.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by old.Lethul
ps. 2h savages dont cap puppet, they swing at about 2.0ish seconds.

Ach ok, dealing out 5XX damage every 2.00 seconds is fine :S

You do know that's like a pole-arm his damage but at 2x3x it's speed, right? And better defense too.

OMG what was Mythic thinking.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by driwen
this is something you can discuss back and forth, savagery line are abilities(they appear in the place for abilities in game) and atm mythic doesnt sees that a melee'er with abilities is a hybrid, but its still a tank (off course excluding stealthers from this). Paladin has chants which are seen as spells, so they are hybrids.

It's not WHERE those 'things' pop up in the game, in your spell-list or in your 'ability-list'. They are catagorized in the same catagory by anything using some rational thoughts. For all I care they put em in the style-list, but it are things that make a class a HYBRID. Hybrid = doing two things. Fight and something else. Or cast spells and something else..

Well, they fight and do something else which makes them to me (and everyone using some common sense) a hybrid. But Mythic thinks they're not because they're incompetent. They've prooven that countless times and they do it again :/

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
It's not WHERE those 'things' pop up in the game, in your spell-list or in your 'ability-list'. They are catagorized in the same catagory by anything using some rational thoughts. For all I care they put em in the style-list, but it are things that make a class a HYBRID. Hybrid = doing two things. Fight and something else. Or cast spells and something else..

Well, they fight and do something else which makes them to me (and everyone using some common sense) a hybrid. But Mythic thinks they're not because they're incompetent. They've prooven that countless times and they do it again :/

having an ability doesnt make you a hybrid look at all light tanks and even engage is an ability. Mythic classes it as an ability, which can been seen by where they pop up. So it IS important where they pop up as you can see what mythic meant them to be. Besides as i said it can be discussed back and forth as savages are simply unique, their buffs arent like anyone elses lasting for just 30 secs and costing hp (which tbh should go from the total hp so from the buffed hp). You can claim they are hybrids, which they are to you and it is also possible to claim that it is an ability and just having alot of abilities doesnt mean you arent a tank. In the end it still remains mythic call and at the moment they say its a tank, so just deal with that and move on.

Wether or not mythic is incompetent doesnt really matter, but if it bothers you that much then go play an other game not made by mythic. As if they are so incompetent someone must have made a better game than they have?

ow and savages do only 1 thing they fight, they dont do range damage, they dont give strenghten their group with some kind of chant or spell. That they can improve their defense/offense doesnt mean that they suddenly can do 2 things as how does improving your own strength or offense suddenly mean you are doing a 2nd thing. I mean heros can boost their defense, but they still do 1 thing and zerkers can boost their offense, but STILL do only 1 thing thats damage. Which is why zerkers and hero's are tanks.

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by driwen
this is something you can discuss back and forth, savagery line are abilities(they appear in the place for abilities in game) and atm mythic doesnt sees that a melee'er with abilities is a hybrid, but its still a tank (off course excluding stealthers from this). Paladin has chants which are seen as spells, so they are hybrids.

and novamir sorry to say but quad hits ARE around 10%, it has been tested by many savages and they always turn out 10% and that was also before people were crying nerf savages, but savages were considering wether to go 2h or H2H. Quad hits appear to be to high but single hits appear also to be to high and triple to low. In the end h2h savages as they are now are are doing on average the amount of swing per round they are supposed to be doing.

check the savage TL report, you're wrong.

as for what does a savage offer.. an unhittable in melee, uber dmg tank.. what else do u fkin need from a melee

 

[old.LandShark]

HtH savages:

Acceptably balanced damage (although brings up the "why the fuck would I roll a BM/zerker/merc issue) and far too much defence, especially against other melee. Making the evade frontal-arc-only or removing/toning down the evade buff would go a long way, as would giving them expensive det/purge/ip.

End of st0ry tbh

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by driwen
having an ability doesnt make you a hybrid look at all light tanks and even engage is an ability. Mythic classes it as an ability, which can been seen by where they pop up. So it IS important where they pop up as you can see what mythic meant them to be. Besides as i said it can be discussed back and forth as savages are simply unique, their buffs arent like anyone elses lasting for just 30 secs and costing hp (which tbh should go from the total hp so from the buffed hp). You can claim they are hybrids, which they are to you and it is also possible to claim that it is an ability and just having alot of abilities doesnt mean you arent a tank. In the end it still remains mythic call and at the moment they say its a tank, so just deal with that and move on.

Once again you missed the point (or don't want to see it).. I know it are 'abilities' but that's irrelevant. The fact if you put the selfbuffs under spells or abilities is irrelevant for the fact if it's a hybrid or not.

Wether or not mythic is incompetent doesnt really matter, but if it bothers you that much then go play an other game not made by mythic. As if they are so incompetent someone must have made a better game than they have?

Useless comment just something you say because you feel the need to say SOMETHING.

ow and savages do only 1 thing they fight, they dont do range damage, they dont give strenghten their group with some kind of chant or spell. That they can improve their defense/offense doesnt mean that they suddenly can do 2 things as how does improving your own strength or offense suddenly mean you are doing a 2nd thing. I mean heros can boost their defense, but they still do 1 thing and zerkers can boost their offense, but STILL do only 1 thing thats damage. Which is why zerkers and hero's are tanks.

They do 2 things: Boost their defense and offensive (by dps/haste) and fight.. One can say the same about champs, hell even thanes. Champs boost their offense by a str/con buff and boost their offense with offensive spells like nukes and debuffs (= also increase their defense).. Surely they are full tanks too then? Oh wait no, they're not :/ And savages even got a taunt shout (which interrupts but that's beside the point even) which NO pure tank has, but is an ability that was unique to hybrids.

Face it: They are hybrids if you put them next to the existing classes, but because they're 'unique' they are granted being a full tank.

It is a mistake and I can only HOPE Mythic will fix it, but that would admitting a huge mistake from their side so it will be highly unlikely they do that anytime soon (how long did it take Mythic to admit they made a mistake when calculating LA-damage?)

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Novamir
check the savage TL report, you're wrong.

as for what does a savage offer.. an unhittable in melee, uber dmg tank.. what else do u fkin need from a melee

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=53885356&replies=87 <-- trev(he is now ex tl though) most recent thread about quad hitting

"in single vs single combat, the rate is more like 60/25/5/10. In group combat, the rate of doubles and quads goes up much higher, though I have not gotten to document this"

he doesnt know how much it goes up and it most likely wont go up all the way what you said it is. He also mentions the 10% which I said. Also:

"The rate Savages are supposed to see for S/D/T/Q is approximately 50/30/15/5."

now the rate of swings currently (in 1vs1) vs the rate of swings how it is supposed to work, is on average actually better in how it is supposed to work.
Thing is that you are might remember the quad hits more than the other hits, which means that you remembering 25% might still mean it is actually still 10% or a little bit higher(2or3 %).

http://pub79.ezboard.com/flighttanksofdaocfrm7.showMessage?topicID=27.topic
http://pub79.ezboard.com/flighttanksofdaocfrm7.showMessage?topicID=25.topic

^^ the savage tl report from 1.62 and 1.61 none of them speaking about quad hitting though. So you just read the thread i pointed at and thought it was a report, while it was just a post by a savage player allthough a respectable one and it isnt bullshit. It is however not properly logged and tested.

ow and about damage and defense I never uttered a word, all I am saying is that savages are tanks to mythic and that you can argue it both ways and that their quad hits arent that common as you claim them to be. I wont discuss the damage nor the defense as tbh I havent got a good enough clue about wether or not they overpowered, besides mythic will do what it want in the end anyway.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Once again you missed the point (or don't want to see it).. I know it are 'abilities' but that's irrelevant. The fact if you put the selfbuffs under spells or abilities is irrelevant for the fact if it's a hybrid or not.

but having an ability doesnt make you a hybrid as you are only doing one thing. As you are not a caster (like self buffing of champion/etc is), so that means you are still a fighter. However mythic might have been wrong in putting it there, but they put it there and thats why they atm see it as a tank. Savage is a tank atm. You think it should be a hybrid.

Useless comment just something you say because you feel the need to say SOMETHING.

Actually because im pissed off at people calling goa or mythic idiots and morrons or incompetent and than still keep on playing this game. So this was directed to you and everyone else saying that.

They do 2 things: Boost their defense and offensive (by dps/haste) and fight.. One can say the same about champs, hell even thanes. Champs boost their offense by a str/con buff and boost their offense with offensive spells like nukes and debuffs (= also increase their defense).. Surely they are full tanks too then? Oh wait no, they're not :/ And savages even got a taunt shout (which interrupts but that's beside the point even) which NO pure tank has, but is an ability that was unique to hybrids.

champs and thanes have RANGE damage and are casting it, which certainly adds them as a mix between casters and fighters, so that means hybrid. Paladins (only hybrid without an damage range spell) has group abilites, which makes him a hybrid.
Boosting your ability to do melee damage = tank and boosting your damage by spells = hybrid. Savages boost their ability to do melee damage (which zerkers also do) and can also boost their defense (which hero's can also do). So if boosting your melee damage/defense means you are a hybrid, zerkers and hero's are surely hybrids too?

Ow and the interupting shout is getting fixed or the shout might even be removed. It was added to give the savages a way to pull from range in pve and the problems it gives in RvR will be adressed(see feedback on .62 tl report about it).

 

[Novamir]

driwen, you know as well as i that in fg vs. fg fights, savages quad hit a lot more than 10%

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Novamir
driwen, you know as well as i that in fg vs. fg fights, savages quad hit a lot more than 10%

Yes, in fg vs fg special cheat code installed by mythic is applied to savage quad chance.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Novamir
driwen, you know as well as i that in fg vs. fg fights, savages quad hit a lot more than 10%

how the hell am i supposed to know that(as i dont fight savages as mid nor play one in rvr)? I can only go by numbers people post(that are proven not wild rumours) and on logic that it is really really weird that quad hit go sky high suddenly when it suddenly fg vs fg. I mean the only bug happening which was caused with fg is the block/parry bug, which had its reason. However I dont see why quad hits would suddenly increase though.
To be honest till you actually prove that it isnt around 10% i will believe it is. However I also believe that the numbers should be what trev said and so if it isnt that it should be fixed.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by driwen
but having an ability doesnt make you a hybrid as you are only doing one thing. As you are not a caster (like self buffing of champion/etc is), so that means you are still a fighter. However mythic might have been wrong in putting it there, but they put it there and thats why they atm see it as a tank. Savage is a tank atm. You think it should be a hybrid.

You're not selfbuffing as savage?

Taken from the Camelot Herald:

Buff (Combat Speed)
Increases the target's combat speed, which will cause it to be considerably more effective in melee combat.
3 Passion of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 16% haste 5% base hp
11 Drive of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 20% haste 6% base hp
25 Mania of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 27% haste 7% base hp
35 Fervor of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 32% haste 8% base hp
48 Zeal of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 39% haste 9% base hp

Buff (Parry)
Target's ability to parry melee attacks increases.
1 Nails of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 5% parry 5% base hp
9 Hooks of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 9% parry 5% base hp
18 Barbs of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 13% parry 6% base hp
27 Claws of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 17% parry 7% base hp
36 Talons of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 21% parry 8% base hp
46 Fangs of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 25% parry 9% base hp

Buff (Evasion)
Target's ability to evade melee attacks increases.
2 Swiftness of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 5% evade 5% base hp
10 Alacrity of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 9% evade 6% base hp
19 Speed of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 13% evade 6% base hp
28 Fleetness of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 17% evade 7% base hp
37 Quickness of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 21% evade 8% base hp
45 Evasion of Kelgor Self 0s/30s/5s 25% evade 9% base hp

Buff (Crush Resistance)
Target's resistance to Crush damage is increased.
5 Deflect Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +5% crush 5% base hp
13 Bear Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +9% crush 6% base hp
22 Withstand Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +13% crush 7% base hp
31 Endure Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +17% crush 8% base hp
38 Weather Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +21% crush 8% base hp
44 Ignore Blows Self 0s/30s/5s +25% crush 9% base hp

Buff (Slash Resistance)
Target's resistance to Slash damage is increased.
6 Deflect Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +5% slash 5% base hp
14 Bear Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +9% slash 6% base hp
23 Withstand Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +13% slash 7% base hp
32 Endure Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +17% slash 8% base hp
40 Weather Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +21% slash 9% base hp
48 Ignore Lacerations Self 0s/30s/5s +25% slash 9% base hp

Buff (Thrust Resistance)
Target's resistance to Thrust damage is increased.
7 Deflect Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +5% thrust 5% base hp
15 Bear Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +9% thrust 6% base hp
24 Withstand Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +13% thrust 7% base hp
33 Endure Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +17% thrust 8% base hp
42 Weather Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +21% thrust 9% base hp
47 Ignore Punctures Self 0s/30s/5s +25% thrust 9% base hp

Buff (Combat Damage)
Target's melee damage per second (DPS) is increased.
4 Brutal Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 5% dps 5% base hp
12 Fierce Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 9% dps 6% base hp
21 Relentless Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 13% dps 7% base hp
30 Feral Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 17% dps 8% base hp
39 Bestial Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 21% dps 8% base hp
49 Savage Blows Self 0s/30s/5s 25% dps 9% base hp

Health to Fatigue
Converts health to endurance.
20 Kelgor's Gift Self 0s/0s/5s 20% end 5% base hp
29 Kelgor's Boon Self 0s/0s/5s 40% end 10% base hp
41 Kelgor's Reward Self 0s/0s/5s 60% end 15% base hp


I only see BUFFs, except for the end-regen thing. Those only apply to the savage himselves and are thus SELF-BUFFS. But you still see the savage as only fighting and not self-buffing ?!

Actually because im pissed off at people calling goa or mythic idiots and morrons or incompetent and than still keep on playing this game. So this was directed to you and everyone else saying that.

Personal issues shouldn't blur you view objective on a class imo.

champs and thanes have RANGE damage and are casting it, which certainly adds them as a mix between casters and fighters, so that means hybrid. Paladins (only hybrid without an damage range spell) has group abilites, which makes him a hybrid.

So you need group-abilities or ranged damage to be a hybrid now. Your definition is changing. First it was spells, then it became buffs and now it's ranged damage and group abilities. You just change your definition every time someone points out that savages have something which falls under the catagory hybrid so they don't fall under it anymore.. Makes a discussion impossible if you don't stick to 1 opinion and cont. to change it :/

BTW, I am looking on my friar (hybrid) to see his damage range spell :/ But he has group-abilities, so he is a hybrid. I think tanks have protect, intercept and/or guard.. Group abilities !

Too bad, I think I've proven more then enough savages are not pure fighters but they use 'abilities' to enhance their damage. Same way as a champ does.

 

[Driwen]

fine you believe that savages are a hybrid, but mythic believes its a tank and in the end their opinion count and not yours (thankfully)...

 

[Trinilim]

I agree with puppetmistress, any class that can cast any type of spell, whether it be buff, insta, offensive, whatever, is a hybrid.

Why is it a hybrid?

Because it's not a full on tank, it has special spell abilities to help it out.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Trinilim
I agree with puppetmistress, any class that can cast any type of spell, whether it be buff, insta, offensive, whatever, is a hybrid.

Why is it a hybrid?

Because it's not a full on tank, it has special spell abilities to help it out.

again so are hero's allthough they have it once every 30 minutes they do have moose ability to help them out...

and it isnt cast (dont see mana being drained or arms waving) so it isnt a spell..