h2h savages

[living]

Originally posted by Novamir
like you have important fights more often than that. vendo is always up when you have to do that extra damage. what are you actually whining about? other than just disagreeing for the sake of it.

and its not like u screm "kill me" when u pop as a vendo? In organised rvr grps u might just get messed until vendo is over but in bigger fights ur chanter food

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Aussie-
does novamir knows backstyle dmg get nerfed badly in 1.62? -_-
IE Anni/Ragnarok/Phalanx osv~~

dmg doesnt get nerfed afaik, its the opportunity to do a backstyle attack that gets nerfed

 

[vintervargen]

wtf this thread still alive? just read my posts and then all will be clear ^^

 

[AbPoon]

No-one cares tho?

 

[AbPoon]

Originally posted by Novamir
like you have important fights more often than that. vendo is always up when you have to do that extra damage. what are you actually whining about? other than just disagreeing for the sake of it.

Also unlike warrior for that 20 seconds every 7 minutes you have half your normal af, no evade and no no parry (Remember its rather sweet next patch) also i cant slam my target then back style 4teh win as guess what....i dont have shield spec unlike warrior.


Dont bother arguing this point Nov because you blatently havent thought it through at all.


PS nearly forgot Warrior will have higher base dmg and wep skill then my zerker will with 2h

 

[old.Crategus]

from vnboards... lol, so true:

"I read on another thread that if the savage was in Albion and the reaver was in Midgard the savage would be "balanced" and people would be screaming for reaver nerfs. I totally agree with that guy."

;]

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by old.Crategus
from vnboards... lol, so true:

"I read on another thread that if the savage was in Albion and the reaver was in Midgard the savage would be "balanced" and people would be screaming for reaver nerfs. I totally agree with that guy."

;]

Except savages have better dps-potential, more hps, better defense, end-regen, cheap IP, cheap Purge, (cheap) Determination and also the ability to insta-interrupt on range like the reaver.


What exactly does the reaver make overpowered? Is it the lvl 50 flex style? In that case: Lots of classes have a hard-hitting backstyle, look at annihilation for instance. And that one even stuns :S

 

[AbPoon]

Doesnt matter if a class is overpowered or not, it matters how much bullshit is surrounding it.

 

[j0ker]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Except savages have better dps-potential, better defense, end-regen ......

and we have these lovely things at a cost

every time we fire a buff it takes 9% (i think) off our hitpoints

so if I fire off haste, dps buff, evade buff and a damage resist buff, I''ve lost 36% of my hitpoints and you havent even hit me yet

and if halfway thru the fight I feel the need for more end, I can sacrifice yet again more hitpoints for a 1/4 of my end bar back.

and slam gets me every time

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Except savages have better better defense

Savages have awesome defence for 30 seconds. Reavers have great defence always enabled.

RR1 Savage: (50/42/9)

Evade 4 giving 20% evade
9+11 parry giving 15% base parry

RR1 Reaver: (50/42/36/16)

Evade1 giving 5% evade
42+11 Shield giving 31.5% block (and anytime 9 sec stun)
16+11 parry giving 18.5% parry

Savage in a fight can self buff by adding 21% evade/parry/thrust/slash and 17%crush for 30 seconds only.

In doing so he loses 45% of his hitpoints before he uses dps and haste for a further 18% totalling 63% hitpoint loss before the enemy hits him.

I personally don't know any savages who use more than dps/haste/evade apart from duels. It simply costs too much.

 

[j0ker]

Originally posted by dakeyras
I personally don't know any savages who use more than dps/haste/evade apart from duels. It simply costs too much.

my buffs are a sort of last resort.

If it looks like I'm going down, I think to hell with it and fire off the buffs.

I lose hp quick enough from getting hit without throwing them away on abilities that dont seem to make much difference in fg fights.

if it was a case of fire off the buffs and I cant be stopped, I'm sure I'd use them a lot more

 

[Blazor Meneth]

Originally posted by old.Crategus
from vnboards... lol, so true:

"I read on another thread that if the savage was in Albion and the reaver was in Midgard the savage would be "balanced" and people would be screaming for reaver nerfs. I totally agree with that guy."

;]

100% correct!

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Savages have awesome defence for 30 seconds. Reavers have great defence always enabled.

RR1 Savage: (50/42/9)

Evade 4 giving 20% evade
9+11 parry giving 15% base parry

RR1 Reaver: (50/42/36/16)

Evade1 giving 5% evade
42+11 Shield giving 31.5% block (and anytime 9 sec stun)
16+11 parry giving 18.5% parry

Savage in a fight can self buff by adding 21% evade/parry/thrust/slash and 17%crush for 30 seconds only.

In doing so he loses 45% of his hitpoints before he uses dps and haste for a further 18% totalling 63% hitpoint loss before the enemy hits him.

I personally don't know any savages who use more than dps/haste/evade apart from duels. It simply costs too much.

Since you play both classes (as in your signature) you know DW cuts shield-spec in half.

Also don't forget you compare RR1, which is totally crap. And you forget the self-buffs take a unbuffed % of life which is like alot less in regular RvR fully buffed. Also in the common scenario where you try and whack a tank on it's back: A savage has advanced evade.

Also your (almost) capped advanced evade has no penalty versus anything. Most melee-enemies use SLASH so you got the ability to articifically boost your slash-resists but you don't use it :/

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by j0ker
my buffs are a sort of last resort.

If it looks like I'm going down, I think to hell with it and fire off the buffs.

I lose hp quick enough from getting hit without throwing them away on abilities that dont seem to make much difference in fg fights.

if it was a case of fire off the buffs and I cant be stopped, I'm sure I'd use them a lot more

If you don't use the buffs offensive instead of 'last resort' I think you're playing the wrong class :/

Why in heavens name NOT use the class-defining features the savage has to offer ??

Some people just can't stop to amaze me...

 

[knoll]

2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

I got a 2-handed hammer Savage and i hit for 300 +-50 for most of the time. sure i got a self haste buffs that drains life. friar dont loose life on their self haste buff and they dont loose life using their end regain and they got own buffs and heals as well.

and they sure hit as hard as i do.


so dear albs before u start whining your asses of for NERF look at your own realm and what great chars u got there either u cant play the game or u just plain stupid.

 

[vintervargen]

Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by knoll
I got a 2-handed hammer Savage and i hit for 300 +-50 for most of the time. sure i got a self haste buffs that drains life. friar dont loose life on their self haste buff and they dont loose life using their end regain and they got own buffs and heals as well.

and they sure hit as hard as i do.


so dear albs before u start whining your asses of for NERF look at your own realm and what great chars u got there either u cant play the game or u just plain stupid.

300 hm? try get buffs and loose the 90% qua weapon x]

 

[Pin]

Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by knoll
I got a 2-handed hammer Savage and i hit for 300 +-50 for most of the time. sure i got a self haste buffs that drains life. friar dont loose life on their self haste buff and they dont loose life using their end regain and they got own buffs and heals as well.

And when you've popped the buffs and lost all that life, you STILL have more hps than the Friar.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by knoll
I got a 2-handed hammer Savage and i hit for 300 +-50 for most of the time. sure i got a self haste buffs that drains life. friar dont loose life on their self haste buff and they dont loose life using their end regain and they got own buffs and heals as well.

and they sure hit as hard as i do.

Ehmm, you hit for 300 +/- 50 with a 2h hammer? How fast do you swing and what exactly is your spec, you use SC and a 99/100% weapon? Because it sure looks wrong. Is this buffed or unbuffed?

Don't give me that 'friars hit as hard as we do'-crap because that's simply not true :/

so dear albs before u start whining your asses of for NERF look at your own realm and what great chars u got there either u cant play the game or u just plain stupid.

The friar is a great class but I don't hit as hard as a 2h hammer user. I also got less defense, I am a hybrid, so no cheap RA's for me or things like Determination. Friars pay a price for their damage, you don't.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Re: Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by vintervargen
300 hm? try get buffs and loose the 90% qua weapon x]

Perhaps this: Savagedorf Darkest 50 2-H Savage 1L7
has something to with it. 1L7 is the level you get in Calledonia or something, it surely isn't the RR of someone spending even 1 night in Odins/Emain/HW where he is buffed and using PROPER gear.

 

[Driwen]

Re: Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by Pin
And when you've popped the buffs and lost all that life, you STILL have more hps than the Friar.

actually he doesnt i think. He has what around 1500 hp unbuffed? That means 4 buffs(haste/dps/evade/melee resist) on means 36% hp loss. That means he just lost 540 hp's and with buffs he has what 2200 hp's? So that means 1660 hps which is most likely less than your frair has buffed. But then again the savage does have that life till after the buff and has way better defense now.

Btw i most likely have made errors in assuming buffed/unbuffed hp, but it certainly has to be around that somewhere.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Since you play both classes (as in your signature) you know DW cuts shield-spec in half.

Also don't forget you compare RR1, which is totally crap. And you forget the self-buffs take a unbuffed % of life which is like alot less in regular RvR fully buffed. Also in the common scenario where you try and whack a tank on it's back: A savage has advanced evade.

Also your (almost) capped advanced evade has no penalty versus anything. Most melee-enemies use SLASH so you got the ability to articifically boost your slash-resists but you don't use it :/

Yep, Savagery sure looks good on the catacombs char builder...but the reality is a bit different.

Sure, when I first took the savage out to rvr I popped buffs left, right and centre. /qbar2 and run the fingers across the keys and lots of buff icons

Then, I asked other savages why I was dying alot and why healers were screaming at me...and I got better.

I have dps/haste/evade on all fighting bars and use every fight. I have no other self-buffs on my /assist bar, slash resist on my MA bar and thrust resist on my solo bar. But, after learning from other savages and researching the class I try not to use more than 3 buffs. My job is not to tank face to face but to take out casters/support. Dueling is a different matter.

The only time I will pop dps/evade/haste/parry/thrust is when i am running solo to join a group and get a deathwish assassin on me That then costs me at least FA2 after fight.

Things will change a bit and i will probably have to use Kelgors Boon line more after 1.62 but if you think every savage pops all buffs every fight..or can indeed afford too then go and play the class to see the limitations.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Yep, Savagery sure looks good on the catacombs char builder...but the reality is a bit different.

Sure, when I first took the savage out to rvr I popped buffs left, right and centre. /qbar2 and run the fingers across the keys and lots of buff icons

Then, I asked other savages why I was dying alot and why healers were screaming at me...and I got better.

I have dps/haste/evade on all fighting bars and use every fight. I have no other self-buffs on my /assist bar, slash resist on my MA bar and thrust resist on my solo bar. But, after learning from other savages and researching the class I try not to use more than 3 buffs. My job is not to tank face to face but to take out casters/support. Dueling is a different matter.

The only time I will pop dps/evade/haste/parry/thrust is when i am running solo to join a group and get a deathwish assassin on me That then costs me at least FA2 after fight.

Things will change a bit and i will probably have to use Kelgors Boon line more after 1.62 but if you think every savage pops all buffs every fight..or can indeed afford too then go and play the class to see the limitations.

Well it's all about finding a good balance and ofcourse you don't pop every buff you have each fight

But you say you pop dps/haste/evade every fight. So you run around with 25 dps buff, very fast swing speed and skyhigh advanced evade.

Now look at savages: They level both DEX and QUI (primary and secondary stat) so with buffs both your DEX and QUI are very high (My Briton friar has 232 qui and 282 dex and he don't level DEX and QUI) so you might hit these numbers too if you use a buffbot. Then you got probably capped Evade if you take Dodger 2 and use the Evade buff. But that's capped Advanced Evade and thus better then a friar already.

Add a 25 dps buff and a haste (same as friar) and you probably got around the same swingspeed (without celerity) but you got a 25 dps damage-add. So there's your better offensive (+ better weaponskill ofcourse)

Now add Celerity, cheap RA's and you see in terms of offensive and defense AND RA's your better off..

What you lack: Baseline-buffs. But: You got like Albs 2 classes who can do baseline (shaman and healer) so you get them anyhow. Heals: Same, shaman and healer vs. cleric and friar. Don't forget it's easier for a shaman to heal then a friar because of the nature of both classes: Shaman is a caster class so fights in range and has CC to make interrupting him harder. Friar doesn't have that and has to wait for a few seconds to heal when he comes out of combat (melee).

The 2 classes cannot (and should not) be compared the way alot of people do. but if you check them in terms of offense and defense the savage wins. The friar wins in terms of versatility, but pays the price for that being a hybride.

 

[parzi]

when you compare 2 classes why do you put in celerity (healer), buffbot (shaman) etc ?
oh and no hth savage i know has the last versions of the buffs, cause savages also only got 1,5 specpts.

but some viable points

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by parzi
when you compare 2 classes why do you put in celerity (healer), buffbot (shaman) etc ?

Uhmm, because you should add those things in a daily RvR group. Duels say nothing for real RvR performance.

I mean, does a savage not benefit from a shaman (in the group even) or when the healer pops Celerity ? No, he does benefit and yes those things happen in RvR.

Perhaps a savage would be 'balanced' unbuffed solo in a duel.. But the problem comes when you put them in a buffed RvR group envirionment.

 

[stunned]

Casting celerity isnt always a good thing for fast hitting classes.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by stunned
Casting celerity isnt always a good thing for fast hitting classes.

Sigh, either you didn't get my point or are looking for straws to grasp onto to deny the fact I am right about the savage.

Anyhow, it's not relevant for the discussion and my points still stand and remain valid.

 

[stunned]

Nope just saying celerity isnt always a good thing

 

[dakeyras]

Friar and savage are totally different animals. One is melee support and the other pure melee.

Another factor many forget is the ways to counter a savage. Slam/annihilation alone are uber and almost nullify the buffs you have just popped.

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that most battles don't last 30 seconds so savages don't often have to rebuff during a fight. It happens, but not often. After 30 secs you are either on your way or back at bindstone.

Prolong RvR battles. Give Clerics some form of self-defence CC (not the crap they have now) and sort interrupts.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Another factor many forget is the ways to counter a savage. Slam/annihilation alone are uber and almost nullify the buffs you have just popped.

Slam (from behind) -> evade
Slam (from behind) -> evade
Slam (from behind) -> hit! Shame he already killed the guy you were protecting

 

[ulke]

Re: Re: 2-Handed Savage Friar any 1 ?

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Ehmm, you hit for 300 +/- 50 with a 2h hammer? How fast do you swing and what exactly is your spec, you use SC and a 99/100% weapon? Because it sure looks wrong. Is this buffed or unbuffed?

Don't give me that 'friars hit as hard as we do'-crap because that's simply not true :/




The friar is a great class but I don't hit as hard as a 2h hammer user. I also got less defense, I am a hybrid, so no cheap RA's for me or things like Determination. Friars pay a price for their damage, you don't.

Hmm, you are comparing a class that can give buffs, resists, rezz, and heal with a pure meleeclass...hmm..
You pay a price for that, savages dont pay that, becouse we dont get anything else than doing dmg

The dmg a 2h-savage does is on average higher than 300, I can admit that