Guard !

[Tranquil-]

Block and guard angles are fucked up aswell as shield being possibly slightly overpowered against arrows. Shield has a natural 30% bonus versus arrows even when unspecced, and buffs/mob/shieldspec adds to that ofc. I've shot at tanks running away with their backs directly at me, I've still been blocked..

Imo a blocked arrow should be something like a blocked bolt, atleast do some damage.. I'd be satisfied even with 10% of the normal damage tbh. Perhaps large weapons and 2H'ers should work like this too..

Anyway, a heavy tank blocking like that on a target he's concentrating on is fine, the way guard is passive like that isn't.. Engage should work on guard aswell, and then normal shield effectiveness vs arrows should be lowered...

 

[Mavl]

u got your machine gun mode and you want more? ^^

Kiss meh arse!

And yes, i'm an overpowered shield abuser. :kissit:


@ the original poster:

You wanted to kill a shield tank + bb solo ?
Your class is not designed for that.


as for guard:
If you reduce it's effectivness(already halved by the dual wielder zerg) there would be no point in shield tanks but farming mobs in df.

 

[halgaard]

Originally posted by Mavl
u got your machine gun mode and you want more? ^^

Kiss meh arse!

And yes, i'm an overpowered shield abuser. :kissit:


@ the original poster:

You wanted to kill a shield tank + bb solo ?
Your class is not designed for that.


as for guard:
If you reduce it's effectivness(already halved by the dual wielder zerg) there would be no point in shield tanks but farming mobs in df.

cool.. give scout immunity to spells and we could call it ballanced.

i think that makes as much sence as the post above ....

/sarcasmn

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by halgaard
cool.. give scout immunity to spells and we could call it ballanced.

i think that makes as much sence as the post above ....

/sarcasmn

That wouldnt be balanced. That would be stupid.

I think you should learn a little lesson that certain chars have certain abilities and you must choose your targets according to these abilities or find ways to bypass them. The alternative for you is to try shoot half a hundred arrows through a buffed guard and then cry for nerfs on boards.


As for that spell immunity.... why not give casters stealth while we are at it ?


p.s. The first thing you should learn: you cant kill everything.

 

[valcyr]

Its unblanced and stupid. nuff said.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Mavl
That wouldnt be balanced. That would be stupid.

I think you should learn a little lesson that certain chars have certain abilities and you must choose your targets according to these abilities or find ways to bypass them. The alternative for you is to try shoot half a hundred arrows through a buffed guard and then cry for nerfs on boards.


As for that spell immunity.... why not give casters stealth while we are at it ?


p.s. The first thing you should learn: you cant kill everything.

The point is that someone should be killable if he/she/it is doing absolutely nothing. The requirement shouldn't be simply "you can't touch this class, even if I'm standing ontop of you doing nothing, nanana".

I know you're bitter cause you've had your theurgist pwned by snipers, but the Mythic devs aren't adjusting classes based on how much revenge they want. Which is what you wish to do.

Originally posted by Mavl
That wouldnt be balanced.

Neither is 50 arrows hitting a target without retaliation, but not doing any damage.

 

[Mavl]

That's the drawback of having a 2k range on your attack. Face it or quit.

 

[halgaard]

hehe Mavl, I find your posts hilariously funny keep em comming
oh.. and btw try making a scout/ranger/hunter someday and test this uber class out before posting anymore garbage .. no wait.. keep the garbage comming

and before you mention how much your bg scout roXOr then remember real rvr is diffrent from bg ( i have a feeling you might say something like that in your next post )

moderated

 

[-Nuked-]

a warrior!????






















....... on excalibur

 

[Mavl]

Halgaard, it's funny but I still haven't heard any counter arguments from you, only flames.
You may insult me as long as you like, it will not change anything, only make you look more childish. And if shield tank group defensive abilities will get changed, that is they will be upgraded.

P.S. And if i will make an archer i certanly wont try to kill a char that is guarded by a buffed shield tank.

 

[Belsameth]

it's all going down in flames....
as usual, sadly

tone it down a bit, Halgaard

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Mavl
@ the original poster:

You wanted to kill a shield tank + bb solo ?
Your class is not designed for that.

he wanted to kill a BB, where the tank was a few units away from the bot and after 50 arrows he didnt even hit it. Archers cant solo kill a shield tank (atleast not with their bow), I am ok with that. However not being able to hit the person a little away from him, because he gaurds that person?

Gaurd doesnt cost end like engage does, so it should be weaker. Besides it being on another person. If he would have been killed by the warrior no one would mind it. But 100%(!!!!!!!!!!) block, while the warrior is fighting a mob 500 units (guessing that) away. It is either damn unlucky or some bug, as I can not believe that this is something mythic designed.
I am sorry that you cant see that being completly invulnerable for some damage doesnt seem wrong to you. Ranged damage shouldnt be as powerful as not ranged, but you shouldnt be immune for it.

If a warrior would be immune for your theurgist nukes+pets, would that sound fair to you? The drawbacks of having 2000 range for your pets?

 

[Mavl]

It's not invulnerability, he was unlucky. Chance for guard to work equals your chance to block. I repeat, he was using a no to-hit bonus attack on a target guarded by a fully buffed shield tank, nothing unusual that he failed.

If you want to hit through guard you need to ask mythic to give you to-hit bonus, and not to nerf someone's defining group ability.

The only way for him to act was to shoot at the warrior from rear arc when he pulls and then kill the bb. When you shoot 10 arrows at bb and see that they are being guarded you naturally try a diffirent tactic, if you keep on shooting till your face becomes red then something is wrong with you.

There are things that guard is good against(archers), and there are things that guard is bad against(all dual wielders). Now you tell me which one of those is more common in rvr.

Originally posted by Driwen
If a warrior would be immune for your theurgist nukes+pets, would that sound fair to you? The drawbacks of having 2000 range for your pets?

A warrior is very hard to bring down with pets if he faces them(blue with no to-hit bonus, yes, thats why i dont send pets at shield tanks until my face becomes red) and theurg cant nuke when casting pets. The drawback of having 2k range for pets is 1)no to-hit bonus 2)short pet lifetime. 3)inability to control them 4)requirement of LoS(other pet casters dont have that).

 

[Tranquil-]

Neither the archer or the theurgist would be able to kill a warrior head on, the differance is that the theurgist atleast would have the chance to scratch the target with SOME damage.

That's the problem with buffed guard. Passive blocking from all angles. The tank should atleast have to face the direction of the attacker.

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
Neither the archer or the theurgist would be able to kill a warrior head on, the differance is that the theurgist atleast would have the chance to scratch the target with SOME damage.

That's the problem with buffed guard. Passive blocking from all angles. The tank should atleast have to face the direction of the attacker.

Both theurg and a scout can kill a warr, it just requires brains, and the magic tictacs ofc.

Thats the thing about heavy tanks m8... they kill people "head on".
And words "head on" are not applicable to scouts at all.


Why should a shield tank have to face the assist train that already has his guard chance halved ?


I have a feeling you are the kind of ppl that would only be satisfied when they could just pop out of stealth right before someone's nose and pwn them in a couple of seconds from any distance. I'm afraid that will not happen anytime soon.

 

[kirennia]

One question, if you send 53 pets at a target, and I mean ANY human controlled target, would you expect them to come out with 100% health?

 

[halgaard]

Originally posted by Mavl
Why should a shield tank have to face the assist train that already has his guard chance halved ?

I am still not talking about facing the warrior but the SHAMAN he was guarding.
The fact that it was a warrior and not a Thane, hero, champion, blademaster, mercenary, armsman, paladin, scout whatever doesnt matter. each and ANY of these classes can spec 50 shield and EVERYONE with shield SPEC gets guard. if/when they guard the classes without shield spec, and making them invulnerable to every hunter/ranger/scout's primary attack (arrows), how will these 3 classes be able to damage "any" classes ingame? use tactics?
guard is 360 degrees so no matter which tactic used, you would NEVER be able to hit neither the shieldtank OR the person he was guarding, unless of course the scout use his lasergun and mezz the warrior while he shots the person he was guarding

In this issue with me standing above the umbra hulks i had no chance of getting behind the warrior since he had his back against the wall every pull, so cut the crap about "use tactics"

if/when a future fix (call it what you want) gets imprentet(sp?) it will effects scouts aswell, since Scouts have the oppotunity of getting the best guard ingame (highest dex aka shield spec class) so i really cant understand how you can defend this issue o_0

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by halgaard
I am still not talking about facing the warrior but the SHAMAN he was guarding.
The fact that it was a warrior and not a Thane, hero, champion, blademaster, mercenary, armsman, paladin, scout whatever doesnt matter. each and ANY of these classes can spec 50 shield and EVERYONE with shield SPEC gets guard. if/when they guard the classes without shield spec, and making them invulnerable to every hunter/ranger/scout's primary attack (arrows), how will these 3 classes be able to damage "any" classes ingame? use tactics?
guard is 360 degrees so no matter which tactic used, you would NEVER be able to hit neither the shieldtank OR the person he was guarding, unless of course the scout use his lasergun and mezz the warrior while he shots the person he was guarding

Do you even read what i write?
Yes, they can spec shield. Yes, it is a part of the game. It has its bonuses as it has its penalties. The fact that you want to to make it easier for you doesnt mean that it must get easier. I, for instance suffer from penalties on all my classes. These are high resists, determination, see hidden, buffbots, low dmg, high miss rate due to low ws, high resist rate, low blocrate against sertain classes, lack of worthy ranged damage, bladeturn etc etc etc, maybe i should create a separate whine thread about each of these things?

Guard is 360 to make it usable in chaotic and laggy rvr encounters. It was designed to let shield tanks protect their groupmates from enemy attackers(that includes archers) You DO(read 10 times) have a chance to hit/shoot through guard, everyone has, the problem is that you do not have a to-hit bonus on your attacks. That is the design of your class, you can create another thread about it if you want. Saying that someone is immune to dmg is stupid in the first place.

In this issue with me standing above the umbra hulks i had no chance of getting behind the warrior since he had his back against the wall every pull, so cut the crap about "use tactics"

Grats, the warrior outsmarted you. Now you can do what everyone else has to do a lot, choose a new, accessible target(or did you think you were designed to kill everything?). Alternatively you can run in and slam him with your shield and dmg him together with all the hulks ^^ (you know... if you start to fight him and take a few steps back, either them or you will be against his back and when he dies you can safely kill his bb.... )

if/when a future fix (call it what you want) gets imprentet(sp?) it will effects scouts aswell, since Scouts have the oppotunity of getting the best guard ingame (highest dex aka shield spec class) so i really cant understand how you can defend this issue o_0

lol
I'm afraid that will not happen anytime soon, let me tell you why:

1)That will nerf one of the main speclines or all the sneaky evil overpowered chars you liested earlier. And mythic already stated that they will look for upgrades to some of these classes to spice them up.
2)You already got your firing upgrades
3)You already got your bodyguard immunity
4)Devs already stated that they are very careful not to return archers to their previous state of extreme overpoweredness

Ofc you are free to dream about it


As for the scout guard. How often did you get the chance to guard multiple people in a balanced fg vs fg fight?

 

[old.Thanatlos]

deja vu anyone?

remember the same argument with PBT and see what happened there

So i guess archers will just keep whining and will get a penetrate guard ability soon enough which isn't a reduction in effectiveness of the guarder but a total immunity of its effects (on other people BUT the shield tank) for the archer... sigh

 

[Mavl]

Shield tanks need a Penetrate Whine ability asap imo ...

 

[Urme the Legend]

Nerf Warriors?

 

[Melachi-]

While i admit shields are too powerfull against bow's...
They are still really screwed over by Dual Wielders.

Before they fix the bow thing, fix the dual wield thing imo

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Mavl the problem is that you do not have a to-hit bonus on your attacks. That is the design of your class

And it's not the first time classdesign has been flawed is it...?

And it's not the lack of to-hit bonus that screws archery vs shields. It's the bonus shield has vs archery. Longbow weaponskill vs Shield weaponskill.

Q: Do To-Hit modifiers on styles have any effect on whether your opponent successfully Evades, Blocks, or Parries?

A: Nope.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/779.shtml

Saying that someone is immune to dmg is stupid in the first place.

A buffed warrior and the guarded class is close to immune vs a buffed archers arrows yes. Even the block angles are bugged.

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
And it's not the first time classdesign has been flawed is it...?

And it's not the lack of to-hit bonus that screws archery vs shields. It's the bonus shield has vs archery. Longbow weaponskill vs Shield weaponskill.

Q: Do To-Hit modifiers on styles have any effect on whether your opponent successfully Evades, Blocks, or Parries?

A: Nope.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/779.shtml

Yeah, got that confused with the hit/miss thing, my bad. Read the above poster btw, pretty much sums it up.
Anyway that still has to do with arrow mechanic, not block mechanic.

A buffed warrior and the guarded class is close to immune vs a buffed archers arrows yes. Even the block angles are bugged.

You do understand thats 2 chars augmenting the 3rd which you are trying to shoot at in the guard case?
It shouldnt be an easy kill at all, and before you say it, no, the char is not immune. Immunity is a binary effect, like death.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Melachi-
While i admit shields are too powerfull against bow's...
They are still really screwed over by Dual Wielders.

Before they fix the bow thing, fix the dual wield thing imo

Parry.

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by belth
Parry.

what "parry" ?

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Mavl
It shouldnt be an easy kill at all, and before you say it, no, the char is not immune. Immunity is a binary effect, like death.

not getting hit for over 54 arrows seems pretty immune to me .

 

[Mavl]

Originally posted by Driwen
not getting hit for over 54 arrows seems pretty immune to me .

You could very well hit with 55th ^^

 

[Aloca]

If you realy wanted to hit someone you should have tryed the warrior with shield.

You have even higher chanse to block for someone else than block attacks on you....

If someone have like 50% chanse to block attack on him he have 75% chanse to block for a friend....

(not exact but you get the picture)

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Mavl
what "parry" ?

Melachi whinging about dualwielding and shields.