News Greece - Time to cut them off?

[Wij]

They can't pay in the long term. It's over. If they could just give up the bullshit it would be in everyone's best interest to write off the majority of the debt and let them go. They can go back to the drachma at a vastly reduced value and get on with being a country again. It's pointless debt fetishism.

I'm all for the principle of no-one bucks their debts but when they were recklessly encouraged into it by a system that favours their creditors to a stupid degree then it's not befitting of the IMF to continue.

If, as a potential creditor to poor people, I sold them massive amounts of debt they have no hope of repaying the FCA would put me out of business as an irresponsible lender. Why doesn't lending to states get regulated like lending to individuals does? :/

 

[DaGaffer]

They can't pay in the long term. It's over. If they could just give up the bullshit it would be in everyone's best interest to write off the majority of the debt and let them go. They can go back to the drachma at a vastly reduced value and get on with being a country again. It's pointless debt fetishism.

I'm all for the principle of no-one bucks their debts but when they were recklessly encouraged into it by a system that favours their creditors to a stupid degree then it's not befitting of the IMF to continue.

If, as a potential creditor to poor people, I sold them massive amounts of debt they have no hope of repaying the FCA would put me out of business as an irresponsible lender. Why doesn't lending to states get regulated like lending to individuals does? :/

This. Problem kicked up the road. Again.

 

[Job]

Ireland, Spain and co must feel like right mugs for going along with the eu demands instead of being arsey cunts to get free shit.

Exactly and that's the elephant in the room that everyone know's is there while they play monopoly, they can't ditch Greece and they can't make it pay...all they have is turning the screw, undermining it's elected government to make the electorate lose faith, and that's the nasty underside to the whole EU farce, if they do that, they will be rightly accused of overthrowing and with the Germans in charge, that will send a devastating message to the rest...if they can't handle a basket.case lime Greece they are fucked, they have actually openly said that they don't have time to worry about a Brexit, because of the Greek problem.

 

[Raven]

I think with the far right anti-EU lot gaining traction in France, they care a little bit more about a French or British exit than Greece.

While Greece leaving will hurt the EU idea, France and Britain leaving would all but finish it.

 

[Embattle]

Tough one today, hard to day if the German's really are going to take a stand or not.

 

[Shagrat]

I really don't think they know themselves tbh.

 

[Zarjazz]

I think most of the markets and finance people have realised Greek leaving the Euro isn't actually that much of a bad thing in the end so that's why they can play hard-boil in the negotiations.

 

[Job]

It would be much more a of a political disaster for the eu, money is irrelevant, they will just have to go into more pseudo debt, probably lend it to themselves.

 

[Embattle]

It was a delayed political disaster letting them join, them leaving is just the delayed result.

 

[Embattle]

Seems a bailout extension has been refused, although as per normal the timescale requested seems different depending on the side you talk to.

 

[Zarjazz]

Payment missed, I guess it's time to send the bailiffs in then. So much for giving the Elgin Marbles back now.

 

[Scouse]

Payment missed, I guess it's time to send the bailiffs in then. So much for giving the Elgin Marbles back now.

To be fair - the IMF's own analysis of the bailout terms they've been offered shows that even if they implemented them in full they'd still be fucked in 2030 and unable to service their debts.

If the "offer" they've been made is no offer at all then why should they take it?

 

[Zarjazz]

If the "offer" they've been made is no offer at all then why should they take it?

I'm just not well enough informed of either sides offers/counter-offers to judge. From a distances it just seems a complete cluster fuck. Who is the bigger idiot, the person knowingly spending above their means and getting further and further into debt or the lender who keeps giving them money even though they know they can't afford to borrow. Frankly they both deserve to get screwed.

I'm more curious about how the creditors can go about getting their money now, it's not like they can invade the country and remove the assets

 

[Moriath]

To be fair - the IMF's own analysis of the bailout terms they've been offered shows that even if they implemented them in full they'd still be fucked in 2030 and unable to service their debts.

If the "offer" they've been made is no offer at all then why should they take it?

They dont have to. But surely that means they have to exit the euro if theres no other option on the table.

 

[Scouse]

I'm just not well enough informed of either sides offers/counter-offers to judge. From a distances it just seems a complete cluster fuck. Who is the bigger idiot, the person knowingly spending above their means and getting further and further into debt or the lender who keeps giving them money even though they know they can't afford to borrow. Frankly they both deserve to get screwed.

But the general population don't - they probably understand it less than we did. It was a corrupt rich class that did this to the greek people tbh - both from within greece and it's corrupt government and the corrupt institutions that lent it the made up cash in the first place. It's not like home finances where you overspend or not, as much as the media portray it that way, it's not remotely similar.

They dont have to. But surely that means they have to exit the euro if theres no other option on the table.

Some return on investment is better than no return on investment - as long as creditors value a return on investment more than the potential for Spain to kick off and demand the same sort of deal that the Greeks would have to get to make them able to keep afloat...

What they're currently being offered however, is a kicking that can never end.

 

[Zarjazz]

But the general population don't - they probably understand it less than we did. It was a corrupt rich class that did this to the greek people tbh - both from within greece and it's corrupt government and the corrupt institutions that lent it the made up cash in the first place. It's not like home finances where you overspend or not, as much as the media portray it that way, it's not remotely similar.

It's a lot more grey than that. You can't generalise and say the Greek public hold no blame. It's a democracy, they voted for those governments that were financially irresponsible. They also voted for the current government with the intent that they didn't want to pay back the debt. It's also not like they were completely innocent in the culture of tax avoidance, unsustainable large state pensions, etc. However I do agree a lot of innocent people are going to suffer because of this, in fact they already are.

 

[Scouse]

It's a democracy,

I'd argue not a real one. In fact, theirs was even worse than ours.

Aside from democracy only being able to work with a highly educated and truthfully well-informed population - at the end of the day, and from our own experience, if all possible sides have the same policies...

 

[BloodOmen]

Well, safe to say they're a bit buggered now. They're now in arrears and the IMF has said until said arrears are righted they won't be receiving any more financial support. At this point i'd be very surprised if they found someone to lend them money, they'd have to be monumentally stupid to lend them money after they've basically just refused to repay loans (albeit it on their terms)

 

[Moriath]

Well, safe to say they're a bit buggered now. They're now in arrears and the IMF has said until said arrears are righted they won't be receiving any more financial support. At this point i'd be very surprised if they found someone to lend them money, they'd have to be monumentally stupid to lend them money after they've basically just refused to repay loans (albeit it on their terms)

Loans between countries are so silly. Its all funny money at that level anyway.

 

[Job]

So of the 250 billion lent to them 240 billion went to paying off debts, the farce just continues , countries are bailing out iresponsible lending by the markets and now everyone is gathered around a dead horse asking it to just jump one more fence.
Greece will NEVER leave the euro..it's off the table, they don't even have the authority to do it..no one has, it will play out in the courts while the Greek cancer eats away at this folly, they.cannot let Greece go bust, who owes the money anyway?
The Greek people, the government?
If Greece is let go they are basically cutting the blood to a leg and the mass migration of people will begin, Greece will empty in 30 years and fill with migrants who will be like what debt?
Ultimately who can be held responsible for debt, this is a far more intrinsic problem for world economics

 

[Moriath]

So of the 250 billion lent to them 240 billion went to paying off debts, the farce just continues , countries are bailing out iresponsible lending by the markets and now everyone is gathered around a dead horse asking it to just jump one more fence.
Greece will NEVER leave the euro..it's off the table, they don't even have the authority to do it..no one has, it will play out in the courts while the Greek cancer eats away at this folly, they.cannot let Greece go bust, who owes the money anyway?
The Greek people, the government?
If Greece is let go they are basically cutting the blood to a leg and the mass migration of people will begin, Greece will empty in 30 years and fill with migrants who will be like what debt?
Ultimately who can be held responsible for debt, this is a far more intrinsic problem for world economics

Kick greece put and you are stopping one of the african migration routes. Winner winner chicken dinner

 

[Job]

Talking of African migration routes..the missus has just booked a week in Sicily so we can climb Mt Etna, you may see me on the news heroically running for help when the coked up allah badger starts shooting up the beach.

 

[Moriath]

Talking of African migration routes..the missus has just booked a week in Sicily so we can climb Mt Etna, you may see me on the news heroically running for help when the coked up allah badger starts shooting up the beach.

He beach is quite a way from the volcano. Will be watching to see it doesnt erupt while your there

 

[Job]

Tissyparts is right, the EU shut down the banks in retaliation to his referendum...a very chilling foresight into their power and intentions...this Germanic led empire building has to be stopped, no good whatsoever will come of it.

 

[old.user4556]

I have no objection to our Germanic overlords.

 

[Job]

Better opinion on the poker game.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...red-a-reputational-catastrophe-in-Greece.html

 

[Wij]

Better opinion on the poker game.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...red-a-reputational-catastrophe-in-Greece.html

To be fair the ECB's role isn't, contrary to what's stated in the article, maintaining financial stability.

Central Banks' jobs are to get other banks through liquidity issues. The nature of banking is to borrow short and lend long. When there's a crisis this can mean its creditors (including Joe Punter with his savings account) can take their cash out faster than the banks can get it from their debtors. That's why Central Banks exist. To provide emergency loans to get through liquidity issues. A Central Bank CANNOT (as part of its charter) lend to a bank which it believes is not suffering from liquidity issues but is instead suffering from solvency issues. That is chucking good money after bad and they aren't allowed to do it.

However, despite that, it all looks a bit political the way they are choosing to decide when its a liquidity and when its a solvency issue.

 

[Bodhi]

Apparently the new €100 note is going to be printed on Greece proof paper.

Boom!

 

[Job]

A disaster is unfolding, the EU is on the brink of becoming seen to be incompetent, financial warring on the International stage at the first tiny hurdle.
Expansion at all cost comes back to bite.

 

[old.user4556]

Greece look like voting No, because fuck you.