News Greece - Time to cut them off?

[Raven]

Except the opposite is happening in China, they are asking for and getting more and more.

 

[Ch3tan]

Yeah just become the new Poland, come over here and work for 2/3rds and still be in the dosh.

You are such a misinformed turd, the scary thing is, you represent a large chunk of the population.

 

[Job]

Misinformed turd?
Which bit are you referring too.
Polish workers, well my mate who owns about 200 rental properties only employs Poles, they work for roughly 2/3rds of my rates, he only calls me in when thing go tits up.
Or do you think devaluing and becoming cheap labour is a simplistic solution to a complex issue and is unlikely?

 

[Tom]

It's called competition, deal with it.

 

[Embattle]

So who here would give them the money?

 

[rynnor]

So who here would give them the money?

If they can committ and maintain the cuts then sure. I doubt they can though and if their economy keeps shrinking it will become moot.

I think it would be better for them if they left the euro and devalued - then they could start growing their economy quite quickly.

 

[Job]

More worrying is the Greek papers with pictures of Merdel in a Nazi uniform and the not so surprising fact that the last time they were in this shit, it was the Germans fault that time as well.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-78449.html

 

[mr.Blacky]

I would say that the last time was their civil war tbh. Also this is not the fault of the Germans but rather the spending of the Greek government and tax dodging of some (dont know the percentage) the Greeks.

 

[Embattle]

Firstly the fact the populous is blaming everyone else is a concern and secondly what ever the current government commits to I just don't see the next one honouring it.

 

[Tom]

The Greek people would be in a world of shit without the Germans. I have a feeling that world will become a reality soon enough.

Lets see how much they complain when half the population is out of work.

 

[Zenith]

oh well xD Anyways I have to migrate to get a decent job! If everything goes well I will do my phd there http://www.strath.ac.uk/
As they offer phd in pulsed power generation!

Good choice, strathclyde is just around the corner. Have one of the best engineering departments in the UK

 

[CorNokZ]

The euro zone just agreed to giving Greece another 130 billion euros..

 

[Hawkwind]

130 Billion wasted! Give it 12 months and they will need another 100.

 

[caLLous]

They might as well have chucked it on a bonfire.

 

[Zenith.UK]

They might as well have chucked it on a bonfire.

And that way you'd at least get some heat and smoke in return for it.

 

[rynnor]

Remember thats its not actually going to greece but to their creditors in order to support the banking system. From the perspective of the greek people it would probably be better if they defaulted and devalued their currency - less debt to payback and they suddenly become competitive again.

 

[DaGaffer]

Remember thats its not actually going to greece but to their creditors in order to support the banking system. From the perspective of the greek people it would probably be better if they defaulted and devalued their currency - less debt to payback and they suddenly become competitive again.

Except their personal debt wouldn't suddenly be devalued as well. That debt would be set at the Euro/"New Drachma" conversion rate (probably 1:1) and then the Drachma would devalue (massively) and all personal debt would rise (massively). Devaluation in the UK didn't cause any immediate harm to anyone (although everyone is now starting to notice rising prices on imported goods), but it would be a very different story for the population of a country leaving the Eurozone.

 

[Zarjazz]

From the perspective of the greek people it would probably be better if they defaulted and devalued their currency - less debt to payback and they suddenly become competitive again.

Actually that's not true. Most of their loans are in Euro, even the personal loans of the Greek public, so if they returned to their own devalued currency they would actually have more to pay back over a longer period.

 

[rynnor]

Actually that's not true. Most of their loans are in Euro, even the personal loans of the Greek public, so if they returned to their own devalued currency they would actually have more to pay back over a longer period.

No - on the basis that they default - greek debt is then worthless and they start again.

 

[Zarjazz]

Not exactly. There's a difference between the government defaulting on it's debt and the personal debt.

 

[rynnor]

Except their personal debt wouldn't suddenly be devalued as well. That debt would be set at the Euro/"New Drachma" conversion rate (probably 1:1) and then the Drachma would devalue (massively) and all personal debt would rise (massively). Devaluation in the UK didn't cause any immediate harm to anyone (although everyone is now starting to notice rising prices on imported goods), but it would be a very different story for the population of a country leaving the Eurozone.

The same thing happened in Iceland - many of them had loans in Japanese Yen so when the Icelandic Krona tanked they just returned their cars/defaulted on their loans etc. Three years later the country is doing well.

 

[BloodOmen]

Just delaying the inevitable, I don't see how a 130 billion euro bailout is going to fix a country that quite simply dont believe in taxes, see you in 6-7 months discussing the same thing.

 

[Scouse]

The same thing happened in Iceland - many of them had loans in Japanese Yen so when the Icelandic Krona tanked they just returned their cars/defaulted on their loans etc. Three years later the country is doing well.

This. But Iceland doesn't need anyone else really - they've geothermal energy coming out of their kazoo

 

[DaGaffer]

The same thing happened in Iceland - many of them had loans in Japanese Yen so when the Icelandic Krona tanked they just returned their cars/defaulted on their loans etc. Three years later the country is doing well.

There's quite a difference between the levels of debt exposure for lenders though; Greece has 40 times the population of Iceland so I don't think the banks will be that sanguine about writing off Greek personal debt. Greece could do an Argentina and tell all foreign lenders to gtf but its been 10 years since Argentina did that and they're still not out of the woods, and unlike Greece, Argentina has a very strong export sector. That's the thing about Greece, they've been slurping up European money for decades but they've got nothing underpinning their economy.

 

[Tom]

Three years later the country is doing well.

At everyone else's expense.

 

[rynnor]

At everyone else's expense.

Exactly how is it at your expense?

 

[Tom]

Exactly how is it at your expense?

Erm, because the Icelanders refused to support the banks based in their country who guaranteed the deposits of people in countries right across the EU. So in the UK, the government stepped in and repaid those debts. Iceland then told the UK to go fuck itself.

Basically, Iceland took other people's money, and when things went bad they retracted the drawbridge and put French accents on. Also, elderberries.

 

[rynnor]

That was a failure of regulation by the UK banking industry watchdog - they granted these fly-by-nights a banking license - so they had to step in and we all got left with the bill.

 

[BloodOmen]

Just tell Greece and the EU to bugger right off, I see no justification in pouring billions into a country thats just going to come back in X months for more.. and more.. and more. About time they started standing on their own feet and sorting their shit out themselves.

Call me harsh but its true.

 

[DaGaffer]

That was a failure of regulation by the UK banking industry watchdog - they granted these fly-by-nights a banking license - so they had to step in and we all got left with the bill.

That's a bit disengenuous to dump the blame entirely at the UK regulator's door. The Icelandic government was the ultimate underwriter of their banking system, and it was them who ultimately told creditors to fuck off; although that's since been turned around and the UK and Dutch governments who compensated lenders are going to get their money back - what's still shameful is the Icelandic people voted not to compensate foreign depositors in a referendum and in the end their government had to override their referendum decision; the Icelandic people were happy to make fortunes off their little financial services experiment, but not so keen to accept responsibility for its collapse (and in Iceland's case, even more than in the case of Greece, the people were not innocent victims of the evil bankers, they were enthusiastic accomplices).