Grapple Survey.

[stubbe]

This may be true for the best groups like NP and DH, but I am sure I got MUCH more experience than you when it comes to playing in non-perfect / not fixed groups (and I believe this goes for majority of players, including albs/hibs), and the balance was change was huge.

On that level the tables have turned. In a non-optimal group the hibs will now win. The "1-button"-syndrom has now changed from savage to grapple/bg which means the less than optimal groups will be ruled by hibs.

However you shouldn't expect to beat groups like DH with anything but a flawless setup and high RRs unless they fuck up majorly. Grapple just makes the process shorter.

 

[Fluid]

On that level the tables have turned. In a non-optimal group the hibs will now win. The "1-button"-syndrom has now changed from savage to grapple/bg which means the less than optimal groups will be ruled by hibs.

However you shouldn't expect to beat groups like DH with anything but a flawless setup and high RRs unless they fuck up majorly. Grapple just makes the process shorter.

hmm, with this point i dunno, ur saying none-optimal grps, why does grapple count more for hibs than mids in these cases? a non-opt hib grp is just as likely to have a lack of grapplers/bodyguarders as a mid grp is, and without those, the savage shit comes back into play and hib mages end up being 2 shotted etc by savages.

 

[nol]

The major difference is the gap between the lowbies and the highbies. ML's have made groups like NP and DH impossible, but people want to compete against them, not gonna happen. I wish there was balance in this game but sadly it's almost impossible, the scale keeps moving and Alb just sits in the middle, with either hib better or mid better. The same thing happens with tanks and casters.

I don't know how many of you have met Alpha since toa, but essentially I have no counter against him, I used to be able to mezz and run away...now I just get skewered like a pig and cast off.

there are lots of issues with the game now, hopefully they will bring them inline, like ffing shade mode, fz, grapple etc.

My real question though, is what are we polling here in this thread. What's the survey? Oh is grapple overpowered? yes it is and so? Ok we have successfully surveyed grapple...and mythic are rushing off to fix it.

 

[Zzang]

hmm, with this point i dunno, ur saying none-optimal grps, why does grapple count more for hibs than mids in these cases? a non-opt hib grp is just as likely to have a lack of grapplers/bodyguarders as a mid grp is, and without those, the savage shit comes back into play and hib mages end up being 2 shotted etc by savages.

Non optimal as in: Not extremely dedicated high rr good teamplay guilds.

DH, NP is prolly only examples on exc.

grps w/o bg/grapple etc isn't just non-optimal. they are random grps.

 

[Asty]

Nothing has changed balancewise between mids and hibs. Equal RR / equally well played mid group will still beat a hib group 6/10 times (at least).

I think fz is the main problem here. The 100% optimal hib and mid groups are only in balance if the mid group has 3 fz's. Afaik most healers are still perfecters and as the ml respeccing is pretty hard there wont be many optimal mid guild groups running very soon.

 

[Fluid]

Non optimal as in: Not extremely dedicated high rr good teamplay guilds.

DH, NP is prolly only examples on exc.

grps w/o bg/grapple etc isn't just non-optimal. they are random grps.

even if that is what he means, i don't see how its any less valid? if u put vgn vs rage why is it easier for vgn now than for rage? cos we have higher rr casters or? all vgn have to have ml8 before we get back into rvr properly, don't see how if we all have ml8 and all the rage players have ml8 the result should be different than NP vs DH?

 

[Fluid]

I think fz is the main problem here. The 100% optimal hib and mid groups are only in balance if the mid group has 3 fz's. Afaik most healers are still perfecters and as the ml respeccing is pretty hard there wont be many optimal mid guild groups running very soon.

thats mids problems, i respecced from bm to perf at ml2, and respecced back to bm at ml8, stones are not hard to farm, camp 2.10 and u can get a efw relatively quickly with less than 1fg

 

[Freppe]

thats mids problems, i respecced from bm to perf at ml2, and respecced back to bm at ml8, stones are not hard to farm, camp 2.10 and u can get a efw relatively quickly with less than 1fg

Its not rly hib pve fotm mode in mid is it

 

[Lethul]

Its not rly hib pve fotm mode in mid is it

and if someone uses pet in 2.10 he gets kicked i guess

 

[Freppe]

and if someone uses pet in 2.10 he gets kicked i guess

no idea how they've been doing it there or in alb for that matter. All ive been with is 3-4fg mids outside room rushing in @ 2%. 4 tanks inside or so, and 10 healers outside

 

[Lethul]

no idea how they've been doing it there or in alb for that matter. All ive been with is 3-4fg mids outside room rushing in @ 2%. 4 tanks inside or so, and 10 healers outside

if pets are used spiketraps will go off and, you prolly know the rest. I guess you could do it quite easy with a warrior + tank + healer + shaman + runie ? Maybe even less, im not quite sure about what numbers are needed since warriors cant hold aggro as goos as pala

 

[Konah]

4 savages wtfinstapwn that runi gimp no?

 

[Rulke]

if pets are used spiketraps will go off and, you prolly know the rest. I guess you could do it quite easy with a warrior + tank + healer + shaman + runie ? Maybe even less, im not quite sure about what numbers are needed since warriors cant hold aggro as goos as pala

Dont heal the warrior til he IPs = mucho aggro on warrior

 

[Freppe]

Dont heal the warrior til he IPs = mucho aggro on warrior

No idea, ive failed to do it several times with a good balanced grp. Keep loosing agro etc and mob go crazy and go pwn healers and wont agro on you till all of em are dead pretty much

 

[Fluid]

Its not rly hib pve fotm mode in mid is it

we killed it with bm, warden, druid, bard, hero... mids have warriors and savages which are both usually specced better for melee pve than bm and heroes, u rep druid with healer and bard with shaman, u can throw in runie for the pbt if its neccessary. other than that, 1 balanced tank grp and a few mages can do 5.10. 1.10 is easy with 1fg, if u have the crystals so rly, any animist qq is kinda irrelevant

 

[Fluid]

if pets are used spiketraps will go off and, you prolly know the rest. I guess you could do it quite easy with a warrior + tank + healer + shaman + runie ? Maybe even less, im not quite sure about what numbers are needed since warriors cant hold aggro as goos as pala

we did it that the bm taunted to get agro with the hero guarding him as generally light tanks can taunt to high agro quicker, didn't need ip, but instead of me running pbt i just spammed single bt on the bm and used dmg add which helped a lot

 

[Sigh]

imho grapple should be effected by parry/block/evade/miss and maybe BT, and the negative effects still occur if any of those mention happens, its a physical attack by desciption, so i think the roleplayers at mythic should follow suit of the game, and they intended it <zergs and quests> and nerf these 1 button pwners, who should think first.

P.S Im not a roel player

 

[Filip]

then why do your house lie at some pretty pretty lake ... and you even got a garden !!! huh !! answer that CAREBEAR !

 

[Sigh]

the house is made of chocolate and sweeties, for littul boys and girls

 

[Vasconcelos]

Well, how to say it...?

Grapple is the biggest pice of shiit the monkeys at Mythic have came across with.

Just gone to rvr for 1st time after 3 months n besides being nuked for 500-600 by chanters/elds, i felt the joy of being chain grappled (hi Montarloo).


And it sux even more when u realise that u can adapt to bodyguards by changing targets fast, etc.. but u cant counter or avoid grapple (same gos for Zephir although its on a 2min timer)

Funneh

 

[Flimgoblin]

grapple needs a nerf (not entirely sure what form but it makes pbaoe even more powerful, something pbaoe didn't need)
zephyr needs to make the target immune to attacks - they're meant to be spinning around uncontrollably so they shouldn't be targettable. It should be there to take someone out of the fight for 10s not to give every sojourner a form of instastun

bodyguard should be more like intercept (but still keep the bg's defences there, so you can block and parry) - you shouldn't have to watch your attack spam like a hawk looking for bodyguarders, it also needs a 1m timer between switching it around.

resist piercing needs a cap.

Why do I say this?

Look at ToA - the master levels, how many master levels are "must haves" how many master levels do people force themselves to go to raids they really don't want to go to to get?

Storms and Fonts you can get from the guy next to you, so although font of power and healing are very nice abilities you don't need them personally.

The only ones that are like that are: Bodyguard, Grapple, Forceful Zephyr (and to some extent Faultfinder given the number of keeps in new frontiers- though faultfinder becomes far less than a ram, but still better than normal styled melee by then)

MLs were supposed to be things that you benefitted from if some people near you had the ability, not things to make you more poweful personally.

 

[Bracken]

Bodyguard isnt in the same league as grapple or FZ. And it can be countered. The others can't.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

ild be honest and say that remove zepher grapple and savages from game, and we wuld have alot more balance.
i mean i got zepehred off a wall earlier today and dragged into the throng of the mid zerg below, i mean how gay.
got insta grapped while moc healing and culdnt purge, how gay. they are both sick abilities in their easyness to use and how effective they are in a such a fundameltally simple way. no tactics just insta press IWIN button.

 

[Event]

ild be honest and say that remove zepher grapple and savages from game, and we wuld have alot more balance.

Agreed tho savages cud just be toned down slightly more. Plus remove aoe stun, baseline stun and make banelord aoe snare on 5 min timer even if unmana hasnt been used.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Bodyguard isnt in the same league as grapple or FZ. And it can be countered. The others can't.

bodyguard is meant to force you to attack a tank and not a caster, not to go "hrm did I fumble?" for a few attack rounds because you're not scrutinising your attack window... it's good in theory but the implementation stinks frankly

 

[katt!]

make banelord aoe snare on 5 min timer even if unmana hasnt been used.

owned irl by dha xD

 

[Event]

owned irl by dha xD

Ehm no tbh.

Must be tough to see clearly when your view is obscured by 20 warders.

 

[Pohjan Poika]

make grapple a rr10 free ability and everyone gets it along with a passive immunity towards grapple

 

[[NO]Subedai]

bodyguard is meant to force you to attack a tank and not a caster, not to go "hrm did I fumble?" for a few attack rounds because you're not scrutinising your attack window... it's good in theory but the implementation stinks frankly

well its kinda obvious when u see a tank buy the guy ur hitting

 

[Flimgoblin]

well its kinda obvious when u see a tank buy the guy ur hitting

if there's 5 people all together on top of him? not likely - you shouldn't have to fight the interface as well as the enemy (and is it just me or is targetting one person out of 4 stuck together a complete bastard when it's laggy? maybe it's just the ToA client but it seems worse these days... that or I'm getting old )