Give Scout Love

[Aiteal]

And another Scout TL bites the dust

http://www.critshot.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13205

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

OMFG...I am sorry, but suggesting Parry as a fix for Scouts is fucking retarded.

I posted the same on Crit Shot forums as well.

We do not need Parry. Parry will not win fights. Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

Give Crit Shot that bypasses brittes and BT and I'll be happy.

 

[Aiteal]

Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

You have 4 lines to spec
bow
shield
weapon
stealth

rangers have 5
bow
weapon
pathfinding
celtic dual
stealth

Why should scouts get additional spec points to spec 5 lines if they had parry when rangers do not?

You're not Infs you know

 

[Toggers]

OMFG...I am sorry, but suggesting Parry as a fix for Scouts is fucking retarded.

I posted the same on Crit Shot forums as well.

We do not need Parry. Parry will not win fights. Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

Give Crit Shot that bypasses brittes and BT and I'll be happy.

Im sure you know parry suffers no penalty vs dual wielders which is what most of our opponents in melee are, its not going to cure the problems but would give us an alternative spec for defense, id gladly welcome it rather than nothing.

 

[Eeben]

OMFG...I am sorry, but suggesting Parry as a fix for Scouts is fucking retarded.

I posted the same on Crit Shot forums as well.

We do not need Parry. Parry will not win fights. Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

Give Crit Shot that bypasses brittes and BT and I'll be happy.

im sorry if parry is not enough you should really try an get a good template..

something like 42 shield, 44 thrust an rest parry would be uber spec for scout an put them back in the game imo..

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

Like Aiteal said, you have 4 lines, rangers have 5, how can you justify more spec points if you were given the same amount of speccable lines?

Give Crit Shot that bypasses brittes and BT and I'll be happy.

That would be OP imho, 1000-1200+ damage from 2300 range from stealth is unbalanced, incorporating trueshot into the bow line at 40/45/50 is one of the best and probably easiest things Mythic can do. Then again they would need to make sure trueshot did pass bt+brittle and do damage. Two changes in recent patches hurt archers alot, the armor table changes and of course FZ, i personally don't have much confidence in Mythics ability to balance ranged damage from stealth.

Oh and as for parry, i would be more than happy for scouts to get that if they nerfed your ability to block arrows and removed engage.

 

[Eeben]

Oh and as for parry, i would be more than happy for scouts to get that if they nerfed your ability to block arrows and removed engage.

maybe nerf rangers melee damage then?

thats like hte only good thing we got an you wanna remove it ^^

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

maybe nerf rangers melee damage then?

thats like hte only good thing we got an you wanna remove it ^^

Well you want more defence vs dual wield, and you already have a 90-100% blockrate vs my arrows with 2300 weaponskill and 67 in bow. So say you get parry, then you have a very high defense vs one skill (melee) while totally nullifying the other (archery). Not a very balanced prospect and is probably a reason why scouts haven't received it thus far.

Nerf rangers melee but then increase our defense, i would trade my off hand for a shield everyday of the week for a sniper playstyle.

 

[Eeben]

Well you want more defence vs dual wield, and you already have a 90-100% blockrate vs my arrows with 2300 weaponskill and 67 in bow. So say you get parry, then you have a very high defense vs one skill (melee) while totally nullifying the other (archery). Not a very balanced prospect and is probably a reason why scouts haven't received it thus far.

Nerf rangers melee but then increase our defense, i would trade my off hand for a shield everyday of the week for a sniper playstyle.

problem is we got no offense so dont think its to much to have parry an shield..

 

[Dukat]

Well you want more defence vs dual wield, and you already have a 90-100% blockrate vs my arrows with 2300 weaponskill and 67 in bow.

Really though, how often do we get shot at with arrows?

So say you get parry, then you have a very high defense vs one skill (melee) while totally nullifying the other (archery).

no, get parry, then we have the potential for SOME defense vs SOME types of melee, eg duel weild. We will have to spec for it, so we'll either end up without a massive different and similar performance in our other skills, or we'll end up being able to have the "very high" defense you talk about in exchange for "very low" performance in other areas. Some might say we'd even have the same oppotunity for a melee oriented spec as rangers and hunters! shock horror!

Not a very balanced prospect and is probably a reason why scouts haven't received it thus far.

What is unbalanced about getting defense for a defensive archer? At the moment shield is next to useless. Against rangers our chance to block is automatically halved, and against hunters our "1 attacker only" shield is rendered less than useless by "lassie the wonder dog", which makes two attackers and means that hunters attacks get through very regularly.

Nerf rangers melee but then increase our defense, i would trade my off hand for a shield everyday of the week for a sniper playstyle.

I dont understand why they dont allow rangers to wield a shield, dont you get that ability with CLs?

The thing is, most scouts would trade DW for shield any day, its never going to happen and I know that, but god, even smiting would be more use than shield against other stealthers tbh.

Like Aiteal said, you have 4 lines, rangers have 5, how can you justify more spec points if you were given the same amount of speccable lines?

To be fair, I think the majority of archers would gladly accept parry without extra spec points without hesitation.

 

[Azathrim]

problem is we got no offense so dont think its to much to have parry an shield..

No, that's not the problem.

The problem is that you think you should have melee offense at all.

Hell, some might even claim it's a problem the other archers have as much melee offense as they do.

 

[Dukat]

OMFG...I am sorry, but suggesting Parry as a fix for Scouts is fucking retarded.

I posted the same on Crit Shot forums as well.

Nice, good to see some of us can still argue like adults

We do not need Parry. Parry will not win fights. Furthermore, hell will freeze over before I'd accept Parry *without* an increase in spec points. I haven't got enough spec points as it is now!

Sorry but who are you? Why would your accepting anything affect whether or not we got it? *whispers: are you actually the king of the world? its ok your secrets safe with me!*

Parry wont win fights, it will allow us to live long enough to win, under certain circumstances. How you can ask for more specpoints? You think rangers should get more specpoints also? if not then how can you justify our getting them without the other two archer classes getting them?

Give Crit Shot that bypasses brittes and BT and I'll be happy.

That would be great, seriously. We get this uber critshot ability tomorow, by next weekend we'd either A. Have had it nerfed to hell, and rightly so, or B. we'd be the only people playing DAoC - everyone with a caster would have quit or rerolled an archer.

Neither of which would be a great result imo.

 

[Garok]

Just add some new Utility styles in the shield line, prehaps a 10 sec aeo frontal root like the VW has and a 14/15 sec snare reactionary off block. Dont really need to reivent the wheel here.

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Really though, how often do we get shot at with arrows?

Not as often as before due to archery suffering, i clearly remember the "scouts are OP threads" on FH when NF came out due to extra range and shields (when siege warfare went on 24/7 where scouts are the best siege archer). I still use my bow and scouts block 90-100% of my arrows

no, get parry, then we have the potential for SOME defense vs SOME types of melee, eg duel weild. We will have to spec for it, so we'll either end up without a massive different and similar performance in our other skills, or we'll end up being able to have the "very high" defense you talk about in exchange for "very low" performance in other areas. Some might say we'd even have the same oppotunity for a melee oriented spec as rangers and hunters! shock horror!

Well like i said, i am all for you getting parry as long as yur defence to shield is reduced and engage removed. I don't find speccing shield to block 90-100% of my arrows and putting points into parry to weaken my CD as balancing.

What is unbalanced about getting defense for a defensive archer? At the moment shield is next to useless. Against rangers our chance to block is automatically halved, and against hunters our "1 attacker only" shield is rendered less than useless by "lassie the wonder dog", which makes two attackers and means that hunters attacks get through very regularly.

Like i said i have no problem with you have some defence, just not 2 kinds that negate both my speclines. For example, being low pierce specced ( i have 29 in pierce iirc) and full bow, you could spec shield and parry in the 30's, the shield and parry combined would completely nullify my melee and the shield would completely nullify my damage from range with my bow. That isn't balanced imho, not everyone out there is a melee ranger, some of us still like our bows

I dont understand why they dont allow rangers to wield a shield, dont you get that ability with CLs?

Getting access to speccable shield would be great for bow specced rangers like myself.

The thing is, most scouts would trade DW for shield any day, its never going to happen and I know that, but god, even smiting would be more use than shield against other stealthers tbh.

I know but that is primarily due to archery being so poor and the lack of people speccing in it, thus taking a more melee orientated approach

But like i said, i would trade DW for a speccable shield anyday simply due to my playstyle.

To be fair, I think the majority of archers would gladly accept parry without extra spec points without hesitation.

I would want to see engage removed and a reduction in shields chances to block if they did tbh, i asked for the bonus shields get vs arrows to be removed in Larians report.

Anyhows i'm just hoping archery gets a nice boost, there has been so many good idea's put forward on Critshot that it would be criminal for Mythic not to listen

On the scout side of things i think they need to give scouts shield styles like valks got with snares and such, i think that would help alot.

 

[Garok]

Possibly could lessen the defensive penalties with Evade Parry Block vs DW 2h etc all around.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Nice, good to see some of us can still argue like adults

Was there any need for that? Clearly I am frustrated that, having spent almost 200 Plat on my template, having obtained ML10, CL5, leveled a BB and having specced 45 LB my Crit Shot rarely ever lands, normal bow shots do f*ck all damage. My opponents have a million and one ways to negate my bow damage, and because I have specced for Bow my melee dmg is a f*cking joke as well. Wow - 29 Slash, can you feel the WS glow from your house?

I get spanked silly by any assassin, and even those enemy versions of my own Class can beat me in 1v1 (given same level and RR). That is just not acceptable, what ever way you choose to look at it.

I do not think Parry is the answer at all. What am I supposed to do with my off hand? Equip a Shield I have no skill in whatsoever? Well that's going to help. Not.

As a Scout you have two choices, you can either spec melee and accept that you will still lose most 1v1s or you can spec Bow and accept you'll spend your life being a scavanger, feeding off others fights because the Class is so f*cked you'll rarely kill anyone in a straight Bow 1v1.

That would be great, seriously. We get this uber critshot ability tomorow, by next weekend we'd either A. Have had it nerfed to hell, and rightly so, or B. we'd be the only people playing DAoC - everyone with a caster would have quit or rerolled an archer.

You see, I do not understand this mentality. What is wrong with wanting to be able to kill someone FFS? Every other Class has had it's turn at being OP'd, I want my Class to have it's 5 minutes in the limelight.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Like Aiteal said, you have 4 lines, rangers have 5, how can you justify more spec points if you were given the same amount of speccable lines?

Because Rangers get DW. If they spec for melee they are a unbelieveable killing machine. Scouts will *never* be as good as Rangers if both spec for melee. Hunters get a completely OP'd pet, so again we stand no chance.

IMHO it is pointless comparing any of the Archer classes as far as Archery itself is concerned, they are all much of a muchness.

Oh and as for parry, i would be more than happy for scouts to get that if they nerfed your ability to block arrows and removed engage.

I tell you what. Give Scouts access to DW and I will *happily* allow Mythic to remove the Shield line.

 

[Dukat]

I've been up all night, I'm thoroughly PISSED OFF about alot of different and unrelated thing, so apologies if this comes over as a little cranky.

Was there any need for that?

Any need for a slightly sarcastic comment in response to your statement that what me and dafft are saying is "retarted" ?

Yes mate, I think you could say there was a little bit of need for that. The question you should be asking yourself is (no, not "do i feel lucky, punk" ) was there any need for what you said:

suggesting Parry as a fix for Scouts is fucking retarded.

Clearly I am frustrated that, having spent almost 200 Plat on my template, having obtained ML10, CL5, leveled a BB and having specced 45 LB my Crit Shot rarely ever lands, normal bow shots do f*ck all damage. My opponents have a million and one ways to negate my bow damage, and because I have specced for Bow my melee dmg is a f*cking joke as well. Wow - 29 Slash, can you feel the WS glow from your house?

Archery suffers. It needs a boost. This is not unknown to those of us who have a scout. I myself now have 20 bow, because I find that half the time I end up meleeing anyway, so why not spec for what I'll be using more?

I'm RR6 with 50thrust and 42shield, with a good template and a buffbot. Yet I still have to burn everything I have in exchange for a fighting chance of winning. Believe me, I know how you feel.

I get spanked silly by any assassin, and even those enemy versions of my own Class can beat me in 1v1 (given same level and RR). That is just not acceptable, what ever way you choose to look at it.

The problem is the majority (i think) of hunters and rangers spec for melee. Therefore when it comes to the crunch a bow specced scout goes down like a sack of shi.....potatos when faced with a melee specced version of either of the other two archers. Its not so much that they're vastly overpowered, its that we are in need of a boost to bring us back into line.

I do not think Parry is the answer at all. What am I supposed to do with my off hand? Equip a Shield I have no skill in whatsoever? Well that's going to help. Not.

What has your off hand got to do with anything? Parry = a type of defense that ISNT halved by dual wield, it works on a 1h class the same way it works on a 2h/DW class.

We are not talking about Parry instead of Shield, we are talking about Shield and parry. Therefore you'll have to split the existing amount of spec points between bow/stealth/parry/shield/weapon, and most people would spec very low parry. Those of us who want to melee can spec higher parry and have the same potential in melee as rangers and hunters currently enjoy.

As a Scout you have two choices, you can either spec melee and accept that you will still lose most 1v1s or you can spec Bow and accept you'll spend your life being a scavanger, feeding off others fights because the Class is so f*cked you'll rarely kill anyone in a straight Bow 1v1.

I agree. Mythic themselves have stated they dont think archers should beable to stand up to casters in a 1 on 1 situation (again, i'm pretty sure of this but not 100% certain), so I'm baffled as to what they think we should spend our time in RvR doing. Crafting in keeps maybe?

If a scout had access to parry, and specced for it, we could stand up to rangers and hunters in melee, in my opinion. This is coming from someone who has had many, many different melee specs since NF came out. I would like to see archery fixed tbh, but that is something that will take a while to get I think. Why not ask for something specifically for us scouts in the TL reports whilst flogging the dead horse that is archery?

You see, I do not understand this mentality. What is wrong with wanting to be able to kill someone FFS? Every other Class has had it's turn at being OP'd, I want my Class to have it's 5 minutes in the limelight.

The problem is, scouts have had a "5 minutes in the limelight", it was over very, very quickly and I for one would rather have a fix that might last longer than 5 minutes.

Asking for, and getting something that makes us overpowered would end up making every other TL cry. literally. CRY. The nerf bat would hit us so quickly we'd be on our backsides before we knew it. What is the point in that? Why not ask for something we can hold on to? something justified and with a little bit of thought behind it?

I too want to see the class sorted, even though I wont be about to play it that long, but simply asking for anything will do more harm than good.

 

[Alein-Pain]

i for one like to see some love trown the scouts way maybe not in the form of parry but more in line with a boost to there melee dmg.

tobad i didnt fraps the fights i had with Kalloth as it shows that scouts need some kinda love i didnt use pet or ip or purge and him useing everything so i didnt even have the pet halving his shield i still won easy.

second fight i removed all arti timers and used slash weapon and purge only and still won farly easy and in my eyes that is just wrong when i didnt use pet and befor u come and say but u have have pd he didnt use thrust weapons he used leggies

ps all archer are time whores hell i cant think of another class that got so many timers that the have to use in some fights

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Well if they aren't going to do anything about Bow, I may as well respec Elphias to melee and re-do his artifacts and template.

Shame he needs Purge 3, IP 2, MoS 3 and PD 5 to be effective though

 

[Killswitch]

Well if they aren't going to do anything about Bow, I may as well respec Elphias to melee and re-do his artifacts and template.

Shame he needs Purge 3, IP 2, MoS 3 and PD 5 to be effective though

Hmmm...Purge3, IP2, MoS3, PD5, WH, Battler, Malice, SoM, Traitors, 99/MP Leggies, Poisonbot, Buffbot, Haste Charges, End Charges, Zephyr...I'd say that's the bare minimum to be fairly ineffective in RvR, but better than otherwise

 

[Everz]

And another Scout TL bites the dust

http://www.critshot.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13205

nimblejack :worthy:

legendary scout from old igraine

 

[Aiteal]

Well if they aren't going to do anything about Bow, I may as well respec Elphias to melee and re-do his artifacts and template.

Shame he needs Purge 3, IP 2, MoS 3 and PD 5 to be effective though

Purge 1
MoS 3
IP2
PD3
AoM3

 

[Azathrim]

A bit like every other stealther that needs a top-notch template to compete, eh?

Poor scouts, having to do a good template!

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

1.87b on Herald

Shield

- A character's chance to block will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is dual wielding.


Parry

- A character's chance to Parry will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is wielding a two handed
weapon.

- The penalty to parry when facing multiple attackers has been greatly reduced.


Evade

- A character's chance to evade will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is dual wielding.

------------------------------------------

Now all we need is the bonus shields get vs arrows removed and everyone will be happy

 

[Sparklehorse]

1.87b on Herald

Shield

- A character's chance to block will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is dual wielding.


Parry

- A character's chance to Parry will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is wielding a two handed
weapon.

- The penalty to parry when facing multiple attackers has been greatly reduced.


Evade

- A character's chance to evade will no longer be penalized when facing a character who is dual wielding.

------------------------------------------

Now all we need is the bonus shields get vs arrows removed and everyone will be happy

All well and good but it still doesnt help the fact Archery lines suck ass dmg tho. Why would people wanna roll a Archer and then not use archery ? doesnt that defeat the whole point of the class, hell even as a mid i feel for the scouts, they need more loving then me in the last 5 years (Btw girls if ure interested ring me on.. )

 

[Dukat]

Now all we need is the bonus shields get vs arrows removed and everyone will be happy

Agreed, I think the majority of scouts would trade what we've been given for that,

However I bet you anything that within a month the assassin crowd collectively throw thier toys out of the pram.

Scouts getting love at the expense of assassins? whatever next

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Agreed, I think the majority of scouts would trade what we've been given for that,

However I bet you anything that within a month the assassin crowd collectively throw thier toys out of the pram.

Scouts getting love at the expense of assassins? whatever next

Aye, but i think melee rangers have been hit hardest with this installment of 1.87

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Aye, but i think melee rangers have been hit hardest with this installment of 1.87

Why is that a bad thing? It just puts Scouts and Rangers back on an equal melee playing field, exactly as it should be.

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Why is that a bad thing? It just puts Scouts and Rangers back on an equal melee playing field, exactly as it should be.

Its not for me, my ranger is 50 bow