Give Scout Love

[Lamp]

In the original Primus DAOC guide, back when the game first came out, Scouts were described as

"the longbowmen of [Albion]. They can track and fight, but primarily they pull monsters".

OK. The next bit made me laugh out loud.

"A Scout uses a longbow - and archery is the most powerful ranged attack in the game".

So what happened along the way ?

Lets see.

1. Range. A fire wizard can outrange a Scout. So can an animist. In fact every spell caster can out-range him.

2. Most Powerful. Any offensive caster will out-damage a Scout.

Hmm. Not looking too good is it ?

Why bother rolling Scouts at all ? Pretty much everyone I speak to in-game says Scouts need love.

Here's some options:

(1) Give Scouts Envenom skill
(2) Alternatively, allow spell-crafted arrows
(3) Increase range so that they can out-range even a Warlocks chambered spells.

I'm getting really despondent with my scout the more I RVR with him. I end up mellee'ing more than using my arrows. Might as well roll a Merc...

 

[Himse]

In the original Primus DAOC guide, back when the game first came out, Scouts were described as

​

OK. The next bit made me laugh out loud.

​

So what happened along the way ?

Lets see.

1. Range. A fire wizard can outrange a Scout. So can an animist. In fact every spell caster can out-range him.

2. Most Powerful. Any offensive caster will out-damage a Scout.

Hmm. Not looking too good is it ?

Why bother rolling Scouts at all ? Pretty much everyone I speak to in-game says Scouts need love.

Here's some options:

(1) Give Scouts Envenom skill
(2) Alternatively, allow spell-crafted arrows
(3) Increase range so that they can out-range even a Warlocks chambered spells.

I'm getting really despondent with my scout the more I RVR with him. I end up mellee'ing more than using my arrows. Might as well roll a Merc...

rofl. sorry, asif slam, longest bow range and dmg wasn't enough for you?

 

[Everz]

heh, tru scouts without irvr are easy rp.. i out melee'd most with my staff :/

 

[Dwali]

scout is good if they get crit in on a caster its like 1 hit kill before di came in to the ra list

 

[Lamp]

IF you live long enough for the 7 second Crit Shot if you manage to get a lock on....

 

[Reformed]

Am not sure about this but wasn't Aoln's scout a pretty nasty bit of kit? Watched some of his videos (still got one I think) and he dropped all sorts whilst cracking jokes. Damn good gameplay mind.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Hunters should be morphers too according to the original DAoC manual, and be able to track their opponents...

 

[chretien]

rofl. sorry, asif slam, longest bow range and dmg wasn't enough for you?

Frankly that's rubbish. The scout is easily the weakest of the three archer archetypes now. Both a Hunter and a Ranger will hand him his ass in melee. Archery is practically pointless in most cases.
Let's look at some examples, in every case I'm assuming the archer gets the drop on the enemy:

Scout vs enemy archer. Unless you're lucky you aren't going to have the advantage of much range due to the fact that your enemy will likely be stealthed. There's your range advantage and archery damage benefit gone right there. Shield skill doesn't help much vs a duel wielding Ranger and the Hunter will just outdamage the Scout, strafe to get off positional stun styles and use the pet to stop him getting a cheeky slam-critshot combo.

Scout vs Caster: Let's assume the caster is solo and for some reason has left his DI bot back at the keep. The Scout readies critshot and *boom* there goes the brittleguard. Hmm. Not good. Luckily the caster is semi AFK and hasn't spotted you yet so let's do it again. *boom* Bladeturn down. Feck. Now the caster can /face and there's no way at that point that the Scout can win a ranged DPS battle with any caster. It's going to look like this:
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood is attacking you and your shot is interrupted!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You ready your shot for firing (3 seconds)!
You blow IP! You are healed for not very much damage at all!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You were just killed by WTFnukerdood!

Scout vs anything with a shield. After doing /face your target is now practically immune to your ranged damage. If he's a tank of any stripe he's then going to rip you a new one. If he's a support class then he can probably CC you and get away. Frankly if he's a support class that can solo, he probably has a good chance of beating you in a fight anyway.

Scout vs dual wielder. Let's say you try and maximise your advantage by starting at as close to max range as you can. You get your critshot off and blow a chunk of health off your target. He now pretty much controls the fight. If he doesn't fancy it he can get out of range before your second shot is in the air. If he does fancy it he pops IP and Charge and is on top of you violating your most private areas before you can get more than one or two shots off and anything you can 2 shot wasn't worth attacking in the first place.

Scout vs Assassin. Assassins are supposed to win melee fights with archers. If I was a SB or NS of decent RR that lost to an Scout I'd seriously consider ebaying my account.

So what can you do? Well you can sit on towers and snipe at anything that runs past hoping to kill a couple of guys on autorun before they get out of range. You can sit at bridges firing into a zerg and hoping that a friendly caster kills something you've damaged so you get a few RPs, you can add like a bitch and shoot into every fight you come across - again hoping that someone else kills something for you - or you can get used to waiting for res sickness to wear off at Sauvage before going out to feed the enemy more RPs. Yeah I'm really glad I got Slam and 100 extra range...

 

[enkor]

nightshades are "strong spellcasters" iirc

 

[Aiteal]

The same guide said that "rangers dominate RvR"
Archery is fecked and will remain fecked

 

[Zede]

Well, whiney feckin archers.

Ok, Surs last week when mids had it for like 4 days.

You know what stopped albs taking the keep ?

6 arrows hitting you if you just stepped just 1 unit closer than you should.

keeps,towers archer classes rule - and you know it, so shurrup.

 

[Nate]

see bridges, see towers..thats where scouts are overpowered..they can shoot further then nearsight range in certain places. VF's movie shows how melee scouts are good too

 

[traktorlove]

Scout vs Caster: Let's assume the caster is solo and for some reason has left his DI bot back at the keep. The Scout readies critshot and *boom* there goes the brittleguard. Hmm. Not good. Luckily the caster is semi AFK and hasn't spotted you yet so let's do it again. *boom* Bladeturn down. Feck. Now the caster can /face and there's no way at that point that the Scout can win a ranged DPS battle with any caster. It's going to look like this:
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood is attacking you and your shot is interrupted!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You ready your shot for firing (3 seconds)!
You blow IP! You are healed for not very much damage at all!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You were just killed by WTFnukerdood!

I wonder if you ever heard about sureshot, personally i didnt loose 1 1vs1 versus a caster on my hunter, unless the opponent mocced lifetap, or in some way got a mezz/stun on my, which usually didnt happen as I killed quite quick!

 

[Svartmetall]

1. Range. A fire wizard can outrange a Scout. So can an animist. In fact every spell caster can out-range him.

That's a problem with how overpowered all DPS casters are, though, not a problem with Scouts themselves.

2. Most Powerful. Any offensive caster will out-damage a Scout.

Ditto. Scouts hit harder than other archers. It's more a case of caster DPS needing huge nerfing, than Scouts being badly in need of love. Scouts do what they're designed to do extremely well, it's just that casters are so out of control it can make it seem like Scouts have an inherent problem. Well, it also makes it seem like Hunters, Rangers, and in fact everyone who isn't a DPS caster has a problem.

Pretty much everyone I speak to in-game says Scouts need love.

I know a lot of non-Albs that have been on the receiving end of Scouts on walls/towers who think they need nerfing, because their range and damage in siege standoffs - for a class that can stealth - is crazy.

Increase range so that they can out-range even a Warlocks chambered spells.

Er, no. They'd have to lose stealth for that kind of range and damage combined to be remotely sane. Hunters are in need of significantly more love than Scouts (crap pet, crap bow damage, miss-tastic melee).

The scout is easily the weakest of the three archer archetypes now. Both a Hunter and a Ranger will hand him his ass in melee

Melee isn't what archers are for - melee Rangers are an aberration...I've actually seen some Albs complain about Hunters' melee damage, yet Hunter melee DPS is nothing compared to melee Ranger DPS. The Scout has huge bow damage, huge bow range, and can spec shield to negate any other archer in any sort of ranged standoff.../assisting Scouts at keeps are incredibly powerful.
And as for a Hunter "handing a Scout his ass in melee", I guess the Scout didn't want to spec for Slam then.
Plus, that would imply a solo Scout.
Sh'yeah, right.

 

[Svartmetall]

You know what stopped albs taking the keep ?

6 arrows hitting you if you just stepped just 1 unit closer than you should.

Yes, and when you're facing Scouts up there, that 1 unit too far is significantly further away than it is when facing Rangers or Hunters.

 

[Svartmetall]

Scout vs Caster:
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood is attacking you and your shot is interrupted!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You ready your shot for firing (3 seconds)!
You blow IP! You are healed for not very much damage at all!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
WTFnukerdood hits you for 600 damage!
You were just killed by WTFnukerdood!

Which is different from Hunter vs. Caster or Ranger vs. Caster...how? The problem is casters, not Scouts. Scouts do what they were designed to do very, very well - casters have gone far beyond what they should ever have been.

 

[chretien]

Yes, and when you're facing Scouts up there, that 1 unit too far is significantly further away than it is when facing Rangers or Hunters.

Svart, next time you're ingame do /groundset 100. The distance between you and the middle of the yellow box is the 'significantly further away' that you're talking about.... Scouts don't get that for free either, they have the best archery of the three but they don't get the melee viability of the other two and as I pointed out in my examples archery is pretty pointless in open field RvR. That affects rangers and hunters too but they have stronger melee potential to even things up for them. Many of the situations I listed aren't the same for Hunters or Rangers as they are for Scouts because other archers have more melee survivability.

And as for a Hunter "handing a Scout his ass in melee", I guess the Scout didn't want to spec for Slam then.

Most scouts do spec for Slam. Unfortunately they don't get it for free. Either they gimp their Longbow skill which rather negates the slight archery advantage they have (you know, the thing they're supposed to be good at) or their melee suffers dramatically. Slam is fine and dandy but if your actual melee damage and weaponskill is craptastic then it only delays the inevitable. Hunters generally have much higher melee skill than Scouts as they generally don't train Beastcraft as high leaving them more points for Spear (assuming equal bow and stealth skills) and Rangers are just sick one on one.

The Scout has huge bow damage, huge bow range, and can spec shield to negate any other archer in any sort of ranged standoff.../assisting Scouts at keeps are incredibly powerful.

Assisting archers of any realm in a keep are incredibly powerful, but still not as powerful as assisting nukers. I don't want my character to only be viable in keep sieges though, I'd be playing an Animist if I liked one-trick ponies.
As I said before the range and archery damage advantages that Scouts have aren't normally a factor in archer v archer fights as they do not start at bow range except in very rare circumstances. Other archers have better melee to compensate them for the slightly less effective archery and this makes them stronger in more situations than the tiny advantage that Archery gives the Scout. In a keep situation which is pretty much the only common circumstance I can think of where Archers are likely to be engaging each other at range the shield offers no advantage as you can't have a bow and a shield equipped at the same time. Yes I can swap to sheild to avoid beng hit but I can't return fire if I do so. If I wanted to take myself out of the fight I could just as easily move out of range (if attacking) or get into cover (if defending).

Which is different from Hunter vs. Caster or Ranger vs. Caster...how? The problem is casters, not Scouts. Scouts do what they were designed to do very, very well - casters have gone far beyond what they should ever have been.

Like I said earlier, the problems with archery are common to all archers and aren't limited to just Scouts. Scouts don't do what they are designed to do very well either. If you mean 'deal effective ranged damage' then they don't really. Not in real situations, not against real targets as I pointed out. Tower and keep camping shouldn't be the only viable way to play a character. The fact that currently it is, indicates that something is wrong.

 

[Toggers]

Which is different from Hunter vs. Caster or Ranger vs. Caster...how? The problem is casters, not Scouts. Scouts do what they were designed to do very, very well - casters have gone far beyond what they should ever have been.

hunter vs caster = hunter pet, if no moc that caster has a choice to qc on the hunter or the pet, not both.

ranger vs caster = more of an even playing field here but the ranger if specced that way still has much better melee (altho not really relevant vs caster, its still an advantage generally over scout)

can only comment from a scout pont of view, having never played hunter or a ranger, my scout never comes out to play anymore and for the last 2 years lucky if ive put more than 10k on him, just pointless trying to play it.

 

[Cylian]

I'd say, fix it the same way as they fixed the differences between in-game reality and what the Herald said about Shadowblades. Alter the description on the herald

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

In the original Primus DAOC guide, back when the game first came out, Scouts were described as

​

OK. The next bit made me laugh out loud.

​

So what happened along the way ?

Lets see.

1. Range. A fire wizard can outrange a Scout. So can an animist. In fact every spell caster can out-range him.

2. Most Powerful. Any offensive caster will out-damage a Scout.

Hmm. Not looking too good is it ?

Why bother rolling Scouts at all ? Pretty much everyone I speak to in-game says Scouts need love.

Here's some options:

(1) Give Scouts Envenom skill
(2) Alternatively, allow spell-crafted arrows
(3) Increase range so that they can out-range even a Warlocks chambered spells.

I'm getting really despondent with my scout the more I RVR with him. I end up mellee'ing more than using my arrows. Might as well roll a Merc...

Tbh the problem is not scouts beeing underperforming, it's caster who are overperforming.

Start would be lower caster dmg, lower caster range, tada fixed.

/edit, One thing I discussed with some other archers a while ago was to have NS procs on a certain bow spec, say 35. Then an archer can if opening with bow from stealth kill a caster with ease, as they should be able to do, and not the other way around. While still making it possible for the caster to run AWAY from the shooting archer.

 

[Svartmetall]

I'd say, fix it the same way as they fixed the differences between in-game reality and what the Herald said about Shadowblades. Alter the description on the herald

Or, better for everyone - do to caster DPS what they did to Left Axe (and then do the same to Animists and Bainshees)...

 

[Deerstalker]

Well, whiney feckin archers.

Ok, Surs last week when mids had it for like 4 days.

You know what stopped albs taking the keep ?

6 arrows hitting you if you just stepped just 1 unit closer than you should.

keeps,towers archer classes rule - and you know it, so shurrup.

IIRC it wasn't the hunters on the wall that managed to wipe albs, it was the pbaoe'rs in the gap.

All soj archers just recieved another nerf in the form of "FZ balance", Hunters got a bonus, if they spec beastcraft .

Just after NF came out I could just about kill a Chanter / eld , and the odd light tank if FZ caught correctly and they didn't IP. I was averaging 10krp for 3 hours fighting (RR5 ) , Now I'm lucky to get 2krp in the same time.

Deer.

 

[RS|Phil]

Did scout range get nerfed? Last time I checked, it could outrange everyone by a few 100.

End of the day, Scouts are the best ARCHERS. You want to beat down hunters and rangers, be an Infil with LGM weaponary.

 

[censi]

says it all really that the idea of having a go on a class where you have to actually play good and be better than your opponent doesnt appeal to anyone.

scout is the only other class on daoc that even slightley interests me.

too many classes are just ZZZZzzz boring OP. its fun to actually killed things and it be difficult.

 

[AngelHeal]

In the original Primus DAOC guide, back when the game first came out, Scouts were described as

OK. The next bit made me laugh out loud.

So what happened along the way ?

Lets see.

1. Range. A fire wizard can outrange a Scout. So can an animist. In fact every spell caster can out-range him.

2. Most Powerful. Any offensive caster will out-damage a Scout.

Hmm. Not looking too good is it ?

Why bother rolling Scouts at all ? Pretty much everyone I speak to in-game says Scouts need love.

Here's some options:

(1) Give Scouts Envenom skill
(2) Alternatively, allow spell-crafted arrows
(3) Increase range so that they can out-range even a Warlocks chambered spells.

I'm getting really despondent with my scout the more I RVR with him. I end up mellee'ing more than using my arrows. Might as well roll a Merc...

you been playing other game then me

I never outrange a scout on my enchantress.
400dmg per shotfrom a tower while im on a bridge, nowhere near you? right....

infact, every other caster can outrange a chantress..

A offensive caster will outdamage a scout.... thats my you got mellee versus casters, and we got a staff

Give enchanters friar staff styles + standard Moparry 4,
Give us a spell that also has got clip range..

And make my pet ml9 any-time please, otherwise it's sooo gimped:<<<



...RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT



this is like hearing aim say that he solo's.... it just won't happen:<

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

Lol Svart, hunters have crap pets

 

[Rhana]

Hmm, Im playing a RM on prydwen... now a days with sureshot, I turn and run with sprint if a archer starts to shoot at me... What can I do? I can q-cast ONE nuce and then he kills me (if Im luckey enough to get that one away as q-casted spells is casted at base speed w/o any speed bonus what so ever)

Onely time I meet a solo scout, is in Thid.. in full scale RvR, they are 2-4... Weee my brittle guard took one.. my BT the next... and there 2 critshots in my belly... what speed do you think I move with after that (if even alive)? You arent very fast when sevearly damaged... and there.. 4 more arrows in the air... /rel

Dont forget, you will have the drop on the caster 19 out of 20 times.. the last time you gets hit by an AE spell...

You geting hit for 600/nuce... and your resists are?

Most people you are talking with say that they need some love.. you talk mostly with people that have a scout on there acc, do you?

 

[Dukat]

Hi, I'll just add my point of view on this matter, there are many differing points of view, however I would like to think that I have a point of view that few others have - having stuck by my scout untill I retired from DAoC due to time constraints several months ago. All of this is just my opinion, some may agree and others will no doubt call it bs, but there it is.

First main point: Archery is broken.

It is not one single thing that brings archery down, such as not enough damage or not enough range. It actually quite well "balanced" (bad word to use in DAoC but there we go) when considered on its own.

The range is about right, the 200 unit difference between scouts and the other two archery classes is not an issue except in very situational and limited circumstances. The range is good enough to stay out of standard spell range while not being "overpowered", increasing the range would cause more issues than it would solve.

The damage is also not far off what I would consider fair - assuming your arrows actually land, you can do enough damage to kill most casters very quickly. Increasing damage would not solve archery's main problems, and at the same time it would bring in completely new issues.

What 'breaks' archery mainly lies in the amount of abilities there are to either nullify it or counter it. I've listed as many as I can think of off of the top of my head below, there are doubtless others that I have missed:

Things that stop archery damage:
Miss
Fumble
Evade
Block & Guarded Targets
Bladeturn
Brittle Guard


Effective counters for archery:
MoC
Quickcast
Uninterruptable Cast (warlocks)
Pets
DI
Nearsight

As I say not all of them but just what I can think of at the moment - All of these are just standard run of the mill spells and abilities that affect the skill line that archers are supposed to rely on, almost all of the effective counters to archery are wielded by the character types that archers are supposed to be hunting: casters.

Scout's archery is no longer the furthest ranged damage in the game: warlocks atleast are able to outrange us, nearsight outranges us also.

Sureshot is pretty much a joke. You just cant get the shots down unless you are both clever and lucky, cast speeds being what they are, you just cant get the damage down fast enough. It does have its uses I'll admit, but the limitations are just a little harsh on us considering the defences and counters listed above. Faster draw time would (imo) go a long way towards 'fixing' this and making it a genuinly usefull tool, maybe even enough to go a fair way towards redeeming archery on the whole.

Volley is almost useless, penetrating arrow doesnt actually penetrate anything other than the self BT two casters in the game get (animists and rm's? could be wrong!), and even then it never actually gives you anything more than a chance to penetrate, even at the highest level. Its just not good enough.

Rapid fire is about the only usefull 'new' tool we have other than critshot, we where given this, what, soon after SI? surely we're long overdue a more usefull tool by now?

I'm not even going to go into draw times vs cast times, or the amount of time an archer has to be shooting at a caster before they can actually begin to do damage. these points have been beaten to death and everyone hopefully knows that it is an issue.

All Archers suffer this equally.

Point number two: Scouts are not built for melee

Its a fact. 1h melee on its own, without any backup from supporting skill lines, lacks the good, steady damage that almost every other form of melee enjoys. Would you agree?

Ok, so we're low on melee damage, but we get the shield! and thats good enough, right?

wrong

No other class has to make do with just 1h melee and shield, EVERY other character that can go for 1h melee + shield has atleast two other supporting attributes/speclines to boost either damage, survivability, or to add a different aspect to the character's skillset.

In albion alone:

Paladins:
Chants
Plate
Parry
Access to Medium&Large Shields
Access to Crush

Armsmen:
Plate
Parry
Access to Medium&Large Shields
Access to Crush

Reavers:
Chain
Parry
Soulrending
Access to Medium&Large Shields
Access to Flex
Access to Crush

Minstrel:
Chain
Instruments

Heretic:
Rejuv
Enhance
Access to Crush
Access to Flex

And so on, I could list the other realms but its an almost identical story, all of the other 1h melee classes have something to make up for thier lack of melee damage. This is why I believe scouts are not built for melee. Pair this with the fact that Rangers get celtic dual & pathfinding and hunters get both spear & beastcraft, means that they really do have the edge (however slight) over scouts when it comes down to melee.

Rangers celtic dual and pathfinding affords them the 1/2 shield blocking penalty, the increased melee damage potential of celtic dual, as well as pathfinding giving them the damage add and other bonuses.

Hunters spear and beastcraft give them the increased damage potential, and the pet, which is a counter to archery at range, it stops the scout from being able to run and restealth, and all the while it deals damage for the hunter, and adds another attacker make the scouts "1 attacker only" shield less than handy.

I know scouts get shield, and with it slam. However this alone just isnt enough to give the scout a decent melee survivability. This, combined with the lack of performance from archery, and the (relative) lack of melee performce from 1h+shield, all adds up to make a scout's life very difficult indeed.

I am not saying its hopeless, just that scouts really are lacking at the moment, it is hard for us to compete with hunters and rangers in melee, not to mention assassins, tanks and the other hybrid melee'ers out there.

It just makes it so that we have a hugely limited "acceptable target" range, unless we work exceptionally hard to get fully TOA'd, ML'd, CL'd and then get a few RR's under our belts, the scout just isnt as capable as the other archer classes.

As I said. This is from my point of view, a former RR6 hybrid melee scout.

Even after all of the above, I cant help but look back on my RvR days and miss it. I dont care how many nights I logged off after hours of soloing with less than 1k of RP's, I really enjoyed it. The challenge, the thrill of the hunt, the great feeling, the satisfaction of beating someone in a 1 on 1, or even better a 2 on 1, is pretty much unique. Knowing, every time you head out, that you are at a disadvantage to almost every other class in the game, it always gave me an edge, I really, really enjoyed it - I'll probably have to try and get back ingame for a couple of "one night back in RVR" sessions, just for old times sake

RvR on excalibur always was hugely competitive. Especially the soloer scene. Almost anyone who solo'd was exceptional with thier character, you knew when you saw thier name come up on the screen that you'd have a bloody hard fight on your hands. There was so much respect as well, the people who unstealthed and did a /bow before a fight, the people who wouldnt add, sometimes several, sitting around the fight as you took on someone in a close 1 on 1, /clapping and /cheering you (or more often, your opponent ) on, it was just a unique experience.

If you've got a lvl50 scout, get yourself sorted, get out on your own and look, really look for those fights, its definately worth it

 

[Aiteal]

I can't think of any class in game more in need of a little loving that the scout.

Being on the lowest damage table in game with the lowest dps weapon combo of sword and board must be sucky.

Hunters are pretty solid right now with the new pet, the pet isnt that big of a deal against most visables
apart from those that expect to parry arrows out of the air

Its borderline OP'ed against rangers and scouts, but hunter population is pretty low compared to rangers/scouts so it's not a biggy on excal, on US classic its a nitemare, but I dont hunt stealthers on US classic so I can mainly avoid all the hundreds of "sic em rex" hunters around the bridges.

Rangers are nice chars, they make good melee's or good bowmen depending on spec and make very nice hybrids.
The only thing rangers should get is the same bow loving that the other archers have been promised in the upcoming patch as bow specced rangers are pretty weak.

Scouts should get parry imho, no increase in spec points to give thme the same melee/bow or hybrid options that rangers/hunters have.
Maybe even some nice shield styles.

Slam may have been great for a scout when purge was on a 30min timer, but it's nothing these days.

Ditto. Scouts hit harder than other archers.

Very very untrue
Rangers hit hardest.

End of the day, Scouts are the best ARCHERS

Depends on your definition of the best
A ranger can outdamage any scout in archery if he wants to spec for it
Hunters make far superior kiters in the open ground

A scouts archery only shines in sieges and then only really when they are defending, but what archer isn't good at defending a castle?
Outside of a siege, they are mostly free RP's to other stealthers.

 

[Dukat]

That's a problem with how overpowered all DPS casters are, though, not a problem with Scouts themselves.

Ditto. Scouts hit harder than other archers. It's more a case of caster DPS needing huge nerfing, than Scouts being badly in need of love. Scouts do what they're designed to do extremely well, it's just that casters are so out of control it can make it seem like Scouts have an inherent problem. Well, it also makes it seem like Hunters, Rangers, and in fact everyone who isn't a DPS caster has a problem.

I know a lot of non-Albs that have been on the receiving end of Scouts on walls/towers who think they need nerfing, because their range and damage in siege standoffs - for a class that can stealth - is crazy.

Er, no. They'd have to lose stealth for that kind of range and damage combined to be remotely sane. Hunters are in need of significantly more love than Scouts (crap pet, crap bow damage, miss-tastic melee).

Melee isn't what archers are for - melee Rangers are an aberration...I've actually seen some Albs complain about Hunters' melee damage, yet Hunter melee DPS is nothing compared to melee Ranger DPS. The Scout has huge bow damage, huge bow range, and can spec shield to negate any other archer in any sort of ranged standoff.../assisting Scouts at keeps are incredibly powerful.
And as for a Hunter "handing a Scout his ass in melee", I guess the Scout didn't want to spec for Slam then.
Plus, that would imply a solo Scout.
Sh'yeah, right.

As a solo scout (now retired), I think you're a little off the mark with a couple of those points.

I agree with alot of what you said, I hate to point out little parts of your post and nit-pick, but I think that these give a false impression.

Scouts hit harder than other archers.

Scout Bow Damage is actually the same as, if not less than, ranger bow damage.

The thing that used to keep scout bow damage higher than ranger bow damage was that scouts used to get access to a slower spd bow than rangers. That being immolated bow, the alb version being something like 5.8spd, where as the hib version was something like 5.6 (these figures are not exact but I've been away from the game for a while so I am not as ready with the numbers as I used to be )

Anyway, rangers now get access to a CL bow which is either the same as the scouts in spd, or actually slower than the scouts one, giving rangers access to the same, (or better) bow damage than scouts.

The only difference between the speclines, if i can remember right, was that longbow's range was 200 units longer than recurve or compound bow speclines.

If rangers actually specced bow (shock horror! whats this? a bowspec ranger!) they'd find that the they can deal is actually better than a scout's.

The same is not the case for hunters. This puts them at a disadvantage in archery. I accept and agree with that.

Scouts do what they're designed to do extremely well, it's just that casters are so out of control it can make it seem like Scouts have an inherent problem. Well, it also makes it seem like Hunters, Rangers, and in fact everyone who isn't a DPS caster has a problem.

The problem i have with this statement is that everyone who isnt a dps caster, aside from archers and assassins, are not built specifically to solo (I argue that scouts are built for this as they have stealth), assassins can hunt casters fairly easily because they have the correct tools - I believe that in this day and age they are almost as bad as casters, but thats another story - Archers are left looking for a caster style target that they can look for and come up blank.

Archers are built to hunt these DPS casters - or atleast casters in general - and so they have no choice but to face the very people who have almost all of the anti archer tools.

Casters being overpowered isnt enough to make light tanks seem like they have an inherent problem, because light tanks are not supposed to be hunting the overpowered casters on thier own in the first place. Scouts are, and this is why we have the inherent problem you mentioned.

I know a lot of non-Albs that have been on the receiving end of Scouts on walls/towers who think they need nerfing, because their range and damage in siege standoffs - for a class that can stealth - is crazy.

As I said above, scout bow damage is the same as, if not lower than the potential ranger bow damage. if rangers specced bow they would enjoy the same kinds of crazy damage that a scout can achieve.

And this damage? Its actually a lower DPS than everything other than 1h melee. I took these numbers from an Archer TL report:

Assuming:
100% chance to hit
100% of damage cap
10% chance of crit for 25% damage on average
50+15 Spec in all setups
250 Qui
10% ToA haste (melee/archery)
10% ToA damage (melee/style/archery)
20% Haste Buff (melee only)
0.6 GR Style (This is the median style. Most players use 0.6GR or higher)

1H - 4.1 Spd, 16.5 DPS
2H - 5.4 Spd, 16.5 DPS
Bow - 5.4 Spd, 16.5 DPS
DW - 4.1 Spd, 16.5 DPS / 3.3 Spd, 16.5 DPS

1H DPS - 176.81 DPS
2H DPS - 233.36 DPS
DW DPS - 267.21 DPS
LA DPS - 271.33 DPS

Archery DPS - 196.33 DPS

If a caster stands still long enough for an archer to take down both BT and brittle guards, and then still stands still while the archer critshots him, then and only then can the scout get the damage that is anywhere near what I would consider "crazy".

Hunters are in need of significantly more love than Scouts (crap pet, crap bow damage, miss-tastic melee).

Surely the pet isnt crap anymore?

And as bad as hunter melee may be, its still better than a scout's 1h+sheild. the "1 attacker only" shield is hardly worth it once you have a pet attacking as well.

The Scout has huge bow damage, huge bow range, and can spec shield to negate any other archer in any sort of ranged standoff.../assisting Scouts at keeps are incredibly powerful.
And as for a Hunter "handing a Scout his ass in melee", I guess the Scout didn't want to spec for Slam then.

Huge bow damage I've covered. its the same as a rangers.

Huge bow range? type /groundset 200, that is the difference between a scout's bow range and a hunter/ranger's bow range. This is what we get shafted in melee for. 200 units. it really isnt anything to write home about.

Negating any other archer is fine and dandy, engage and sit there and let him shoot arrows all day. However, the other two archers we face so rarely spec high bow that it really isnt that much of an issue, is it? Yes it is very handy, it gives us an advantage in ranged 1 on 1's with other bow specced archers, but these meetings are so few and far between that if this was the only reason to spec shield, it would hardly be worth the spec points.

Anything with ranged damage /assisting at keeps are even more "incredibly powerful" than a scout. Any caster /assisting at keeps can start doing damage on the first cast, instead of having to go through BT, Brittles and even then, if a tank happens to be guarding the target in question, it means nothing to a caster, for scouts, it means we might as well pack up and go home already.

And finally, slam?

SLAM?!

I hated slam.

I respecced out of slam between RR4 and RR5, I hardly missed it at all.

If you have it available, you want to use it, so you use it, half the time it misses, using up a chunk of your endurance and wasting precious seconds while your target hacks away at you. If you land it, you get what, three swings, four if you're fully hasted. In which time you can get off positionals, (of which scouts have very few that are usefull), and do very little damage. And even then, who these days doesnt have purge? Yes yes, purging slam means they cant purge something else later, but really, slam just isnt what its cut out to be. It can be handy, yes, but its not a fight winner on its own.

Really, speccing slam will not prevent a decent hunter handing a scout his ass in melee.