Gilgalad on Prydwen = Lamer bug Exploiter

[old.Lianuchta]

Seems the Mids are using the new found exploit to their hearts content now. There was a little purple clad kobold (red con) hunter inside the Alb MG wall today when we rushed thru and slaughterd all the Mids there. She was shooting at us. No names, I'm not like that, and i don't have screenies (I mean we were killing, so I was busy) but I had her targeted was hitting her, and suddenly "target out of view" whilst she was still shooting people.

 

[old.Krypt0r]

........

Ok,
This is the first time I have ever played a game like this so I do not have any experience in this sort of game. That dose not in any way make what I did any better.

Please, I repeat Please don't use the bug. I have done wrong do not do the same as me. Im 14 and thought it would be good but not i realise I was totaly wrong.

DONT DO IT PLEASE!

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Melodic NatureL

Dair - please try to show some understanding towards your members. Gos has a good rep yes, but Gil doing this will not have a negative impact on your guild.

Brannor - you're an ass as usual. Gil has apologised, end of story. How you have the balls to come to these forums and continue to make assinine comments that attract the derision of 90% of the community is beyond me. I know you don't care what peope think, but really there are times when you should...

If a member of my guild is caught cheating we would just kick them out and provide a warning to all the guilds we are friendly with. I would hope that Gos have either totally demoted this cheater or thrown him out for bringing them into disrepute.

As for the apology it smacks of a child who realises their parent is about to spank them and suddenly the crocodile tears come out to try to soften the punishment.

If I see a fellow midgardian cheating I will personally report them to their guildleader as cheating spoils everyones fun....

 

[old.ViU]

so again, what did GOA do to him? warn him? ban him? suspend him?

 

[old.Tohtori]

About cheaters..hackers..exploiters...

My personal oppinion that formed in Diablo and D2 (and expansion)....



..you cheat, you fry

Well first one can ask "Did you know thats a cheat" or even better "Are you cheating?"

..and then atleast they can fry.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by ViU
so again, what did GOA do to him? warn him? ban him? suspend him?

There's legal issues here. Pretty sure they can't just hang him out to dry in public. It'll probably be dealt with quitely, and we'll hear the outcome from somebody that knows him (if it's ban/suspend).

Oh...and here's the response I got...

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Gilgalad


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (CS) - 05/21/2002 10:00 AM
Thank you for the report,

We will investigate and do what needs to be done.

---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

Customer (***********) - 05/18/2002 10:41 PM

Don't you just love those automated responses...

-G

 

[old.dittytwo]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Oh...and here's the response I got...
Don't you just love those automated responses...
-G

Monkeys typing again

 

[old.cerebus]

Okay, so he cheated, if he killed one person and then logged because he realised that it was not fair then I think we could forgive.

What I don't see as fair though is banning.

From what I've read, most of the people involved, if not all, have been thrown out their guild. It's a very good guild and very honourable. Everybody in hibernia must know of their actions by now so they're going to have a lot of people already with strong opinions of them (The players, not the guild )

My opinion is that if Mythic are going to release a game most developers would still consider late beta quality, then you're going to get bugs and people who will exploit them. It's if these said people exploit the bug day after day that you have to worry about.

To be fair, I think this is the very first thread complaining about a Hib cheating. Some Albs train guards and some Mids use the bugged bow. Now some Mids are apparantly using this wall bug as well.

My personal thoughts on this is you should have started a thread asking for somebody to tell you what guild Gilgalad belonged to and the user name of said guilds GM. You then would have recieved a reply and then all parties could have dealt with the matter in a more delicate way.

I agree cheaters need to be named and shamed, but we should not let DAoC come under the control of Mob rule. We have civilised ways to deal with cheaters. To come onto this forum and name someone like this is just as bad as cheating imho.

As said earlier, I can't help thinking most of you turn a blind eye to cheaters in your own realm but are the first to complain when someone kills you using a cheat.

I don't really like Branner after this thread but I think most of you need to relax about the gun thing. It was just a stupid comparison, anyone who has never been shot and who reacted to this needs to start drinking less coffee.

 

[old.Machiavelli]

OK... I know Im only a newbie but.....

GUYS!! Take a deep breath... hold it now, relax... deep calming breaths, ok?

Gilgalad : You did wrong. Plain and simple. Your apology does you credit, but doesnt make up for what you did - but you already know that.

Brannor : Isn't our legal system based on the idea that people can atone for their crimes? Let GOA dish out whatever punishment they see fit, and move on... If he, or anyone else, continues to cheat after punishment, then yes - ban them. But Gilgalad seems sorry for what he did, and Im sure it wont be easy for him with this stigma over his head from now on anyway.

As for me, Im off to find a nice tree to hug....

 

[cleeve]

As a matter of interest

How many Middies have you warned or reported for using the bugged bow Brannor?

Incidentally - Jupitus how many Albions have you reported for pulling the MA guards?

I am going to play devils advocate here - You can prove, very easily, when someone is daft enough, that somebody is cheating by hiding in the wall. u can get screen shots of them hiding etc.

How do you prove that someone has 'intentionally' pulled the MA guards or is using the bugged bow? Is posessing aforementioned bow now tantamount to cheating?

I am NOT a middie - just interested in how you could prove that you have been killed by a Bugged bow user - who is using the bows range as an unfair advantage?

Revor

 

[Jupitus]

Hey Revor,

to be fair, none mate so far, but then the fact that the guards wander away, pulled or otherwise, is really still part of the game design, and I am not certain that would constitute 'bug abuse' per say (mental note to check on that). There are still other bugs which Albs may or may not exploit, and regardless of the fact that they are part of my realm, if I see players abusing bugs I WILL report them. Simple as that. In a similar way, I don't personally hold the view that using the bow of Flames should be classified as 'bug abuse' but rather I think it is a question of players own integrity - I would not use it, but I can see why others do, and I also see your point about it being very hard to prove.

I think the point overall is one of common sense. The community as a whole will gain nothing from there being 'cheats' getting away with abusing bugs which give them a disproportionate advantage to gain realm points etc etc etc. This thread has served to highlight the fact that people who abuse bugs will be reported, and that the community will not tolerate them in the long run. I hope that any potential cheats who read this will consider their actions carefully and not abuse bugs, as I would personally be very happy if I never had to report anyone at all... it isn't something that gives me a great deal of pleasure you know

 

[old.Gilgalad]

So far....

Just coz im sure all u nosy busy bodies would like to know heres the current word from GOA

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (CS) - 05/21/2002 10:30 AM
Greetings,

We received many reports regarding this and we are still investigating. Nothing has been decided yet but, as you said, there will be a sanction.

I will keep you updated in the coming days.

On another topic, if you know other players using a bug, you have to, according the the Code of Conduct you agreed on, report them including as much information as you can....
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

So if anyone sees anyone at all using anything bug related then if you dont report it, it seems your in violation of your agreement. Although unlikely this boils down to breach of contract and in essence could lead to all sorts of goings on, so get reporting ppl lol!

 

[Jupitus]

By the way... I don't want people to get the impression that the Eyes and Ears team are the GOA police... it just happens that most of us are quite active both playing and in the forums etc .... it is up to all players, as Gilgalad so rightly points out, to report bug abusers via Right Sometime if we all want to see cheating players stopped.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by LegoPirate
How many Middies have you warned or reported for using the bugged bow Brannor?

I am NOT a middie - just interested in how you could prove that you have been killed by a Bugged bow user - who is using the bows range as an unfair advantage?

1) None. Because I have warned every hunter I know that they should destroy the bow, that it is bugged, and that they would face suspension/banishment for using it. Not one of them has used it to my knowledge.

2) Logs. I'm pretty sure everything you see in your log, gets logged on their side too...everything...

-G

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by cerebus

I don't really like Branner after this thread...

What?!? You mean you liked me BEFORE?!? Damn. I'm slipping up. I thought everyone hated me. And, like Jupitus said, I too, don't really care what the general BW forum goer thinks of me. I'm not trying to win any popularity contests.

And FFS! It's Brannor with an O!



-G

 

[Dair]

Originally posted by yaruar


If a member of my guild is caught cheating we would just kick them out and provide a warning to all the guilds we are friendly with. I would hope that Gos have either totally demoted this cheater or thrown him out for bringing them into disrepute.

Both ppl involved were removed from GoS.


Any action GOA wishes to take is up to them.

 

[old.Elimedh]

If you read the official ROC on the site you'd see;

"Players undertake not to make use of any bug, not to use any undocumented functions and not to exploit any possible design faults. Players also undertake to notify the presence of any bugs, undocumented functions or design faults they may discover to GOA personnel as soon as possible."

which basically means that most of the stuff mentioned here falls under that category, and anyone who wants to inform GOA about is really well within their rights, and it is up to them as to what they do about it.

I'm sure you all well aware of this tho

 

[old.cerebus]

I'm not saying you are, also I couldn't remember your name so I just clicked back and copied your name from the first post I came across with it in. Sorry if I spelt it wrong.

I also like the way you have only quoted half my sentance which was clearly defending you. If I where editing quotes to make things pop out of peoples mouths, I could miss some words and letters out as well.


Honestly, some people here are really too quick to flame.

 

[old.ViU]

Re: So far....

Originally posted by Gilgalad
Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (CS) - 05/21/2002 10:30 AM
Greetings,

We received many reports regarding this and we are still investigating. Nothing has been decided yet but, as you said, there will be a sanction.

I will keep you updated in the coming days.

On another topic, if you know other players using a bug, you have to, according the the Code of Conduct you agreed on, report them including as much information as you can....
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

hmm... I'm really interested on what GOA will do, if they dont give him at least a day or two's suspension we have that ChEAteRs wELcOmE that _Branner_ was talking about

 

[Melodic]

Dair that is so lame... in your own words you said that if Gil did it again after you talked to him then you would kick him out.

Now you have kicked both him and zeon out because of what? Did they do it again? You made a public statement of what your course of action would be and then caved in to whatever pressure was brought to bear here.

It would be nice to think that a Guild leader is a strong character, but I guess in this case GoS is led by a jellyfish.

I made a comment in an earlier post that GoS has a good reputation, but I am afraid I have just lost all respect for anyone who remains in your Guild.

Gil admitted he did the exploit and said he did it in realiation for the use of bugged bows earlier that evening. I see no distinction to what Gil did and what the middies have been doing for ages now, and what they continue to do. Whilst I am not in favour of exploiters per se I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone on the receiving end of Gil's exploit. As long as other realms continue to exploit bugs then they both deserve whatever they get.

As for zeon - as far as I am aware, and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, Zeon had not been caught. He owned up entirely of his own volition, and then apologised. Both of these are mitigating factors.

completely lame Dair

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by cerebus
...only quoted half my sentance... ...really too quick to flame.

Pfft, I quote full context. And now you're saying I flame too much? Eh? You studying to be a diplomat? Hmm?



-G

 

[old.cerebus]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Svarun,

Jupitus is an Albion E&E, meaning part of his gaming is dedicated to reporting issues directly to GOA/ K&Z. Same as me. Except I serve Midgard. There are those in your own realm which do this too.

Make no mistake. If I catch somebody with that bugged bow, I'll inform him that it is bugged, and then, if I see him using it later, will inform him again, that this time, he has no excuse, and I have no alternative BUT to report him.
-G

Okay, so when you see a fellow Midgard player using a bug, you will warn him that it is a cheat and forget about it. If you see that same player using the bug again, you'll then report him.

Fine......

So what the hell gives you the right to report a Hibernian player to GOA when you didn't warn that player first? I am perfectly aware that you couldn't tell him in game but you could have at least warned him in the forums not to use the bug again and then waited to then hear another seperate report of him using the bug.

What you have basically said is that you will report Midgard cheaters if they use a bug more than once or twice, but as soon as you hear of an Albion or Hibernian player cheating you'll report them straight away with no warning.

That makes you just as bad as the cheater. uke:

 

[cleeve]

Hmm

/em puts on his devils advocate hat

I would argue that there is a degree of difference between the 'infamous bugged bow' (Ibb from now on), the 'infamous MA pull' (iMAp from now on) and the 'infamous invisible archer hack' (IIAH from now on).

with the IIAH it is IMPOSSIBLE for you not to know that it is a cheat - you are inside a wall and cannot be seen whilst exploiting a bug to attack enemies

with the ibb then you could be LEGITIMATELY using a dropped and freely available item without realising that its bugged - not all DAOC players visit any forums let alone these ones.

With the iMAp its possible to do it by accident and therefore again to report without warning is a little harsh imo.

TO move away from this particular issue and look at the problems with cheating/reporting cheating in general. Everyone has their own take on a legitimate mistake and a planned exploit. I think there are a fair few irresponsible selfish players in the community at the moment who are looking to wind people up. There are countless responses to queries. questions and complaints throughout these boards that are clearly intended to provoke a reaction and to wind somone up.

I think the important thing here is to be aware that these players exist - there are morons in every realm and on every server. Try not to let the actions of a few muppets from each realm act like a muppet yourself just to get even. (This is not aimed at either Gila or Zeon - but more at other people abusing bugs - abusing players and generally behaving like llamas)

Cheers All

Revor

 

[Melodic]

if it was a case of a few muppets using exploits it wouldn't be so bad, but I have to say that midgard appears to have a HUGE number of muppets who use exploits during every battle. Maybe I am being unfair to a lot of middies but it just seems this way to me.

That being the case, I get annoyed when we have 2 hibbies who use an exploit out of frustration and are then treated as pariahs. Midgard screams foul and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. That their own Guild leader boots them after saying she wouldn't just beggars belief.

I am not defending exploiters here, but as I have said before if one realm is using exploits on such a large scale then some people acting out of character through sheer frustration should be greeted with some degree of understanding. Both have apologised and said they wouldn't do it again. If they DO do it again then of course they deserve to be horsewhipped.

btw who is the eyes and ears for hibernia?

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Melodic NatureL
if it was a case of a few muppets using exploits it wouldn't be so bad, but I have to say that midgard appears to have a HUGE number of muppets who use exploits during every battle. Maybe I am being unfair to a lot of middies but it just seems this way to me.

I've been in RvR a lot and keep raids a lot and keep defences a lot and I have yet to see any of my Midguard colluges exploiting ANY bugs.

There are people on all sides who do it, I will admit that, but my experience has shown that none of my realm mates I team with exploit.

Don't accuse us all, if people exploit, report them, don't just diss us all.

I could claim that all albs exploit because I constantly get shot by archers through walls and hills and trees, but most fire from out in the open. I could claim that the only keep defence the albs can do is catapulting through the door (outside I will accept, but in the gatehouse ) or area mezzing and nuking under the door...

Give me evidence of the MASSIVE amount of middie exploiters you have encountered and what they are doing.

 

[Tiwaz]

This is beginning to look like the Counter-Strike community

As soon as you die, reflexes kick in, and you yell "CHEATER"! This was actually the main reason for me to leave CS. (apart from the fact that my age prevented me from having the needed reflexes )

I'm not tolerating cheating, and I cannot really comment on the amount of cheating in the frontiers, since I would get my ar.. kicked if I showed my low lvl face there
But think about it - To me, it doesn't make sense that all cheaters should choose Midgard as their realm. If there is bugs in the game, there will most likely be ppl who exploit them as well - no matter what realm they're from. The (original) topic of this thread indicates this as well.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, don't accuse every middie that kills you, of being a cheater. I don't, and I won't cheat - ever. And the same goes for a huge majority of middie inhabitants i'm sure

As I used to say in CS: "Keep quiet, and play!"

 

[old.cerebus]

Originally posted by LegoPirate

with the IIAH it is IMPOSSIBLE for you not to know that it is a cheat - you are inside a wall and cannot be seen whilst exploiting a bug to attack enemies

with the ibb then you could be LEGITIMATELY using a dropped and freely available item without realising that its bugged

Mythic have made a mistake in allowing the bugged bow to be dropped and having a bugged 3D engine that allows people to get into the walls.

Both are Cheats........no one cheat is worse than the other.

What I'm saying is that many people feel it is fair to give warnings to realm mates when caught cheating and expect players from other realms to get banned right away if they cheat.

For everybody who has slammed these cheaters, good for you. You're helping to build a better game environment.

Just imagine you accidentally exploit a bug without realising and people come on these boards and report you to GOA calling for you to get banned without first asking if you knew what you where doing.

You wouldn't like it would you?

I know these guys knew what they where doing, but as Brannor McThife has clearly stated, you should warn these people first before trying to get them banned and thrown out of their guilds.

Oh wait...that only applies if you play in Midgard doesn't it !

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by Melodic NatureL
btw who is the eyes and ears for hibernia?

ALBION
Lunar DarkShadow
Jupitus DarkShadow
Para Medic
Breeze
Catnip LightPaw
Regalia

MIDGARD
Brannor
Jenna
Demrog
Sauna
Spug Darktyde
Urgat Rip-Eye


HIBERNIA
Blackat
Vidx

... Kemor is working on recruiting some more in Hibernia soon...

 

[old.cerebus]

Oh, oh, me please!

I would love to tell GOA what people in Hibernia think. God that would be funny.

 

[old.Iominali]

The idea about warning players before reporting them is a valid one. You know how the FPS behaves on keep raids and surely you know what happens on the walls when you try to jump on the edge to get a LOS (which you already have, but it'd seem the 50cm tall wall structure denies you from casting spells behind it) and pull back to safety once you've casted, given that you're using not-the-top-end-hardware.

Due to the lag, it seems the collosion check is there only about 5% of the time. And if your camera isn't in the angle to see that you actually are inside a wall (you see through the texture from that side, and if you don't look around, you may not notice being in there) you can slip. Imagine getting reported for abusing a bug, while you really are just being abused by a game flaw...

And by this I don't mean Gil or any other named person here.

BTW, people should learn the saying "never argue with a stupid. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with superior experience" ... ...we have oh-so-many true mob souls on these boards who are willing to "jump on the bandwagon" after "<enter realm here> cries foul". <you are now using the Personal Opinion taunt style> They just are way too stupid to realise they're doing more harm than good, plain and simple. <you hit for some damage (+ extra-goodies vs. easily offended simple people)>