Politics General Election 2017

[Wij]

It felt weird agreeing with Job there and my finger tried to rebel as I accidentally hit dislike first :/

Anyway, also this:

Munich Olympics, dead Jews and Stop the War

Corbyn was chair of STWC when they published this article but I guess that's something else he didn't have time to check.

 

[Wij]

This is getting painful now.

Corbyn: I was present at wreath-laying but don't think I was involved

No..just holding the wreath.

Also he's just thrown the Labour press office under a bus there by undercutting their official explanation.

 

[caLLous]

How could he fuck up being opposition to the worst government in living memory so badly...

 

[Embattle]

I find it funny, I'm not sure we've had such an incompetent opposition leader who can't even take advantage of the current government having difficulties with one of the most difficult issues facing any government in a long time.

 

[Wij]

How could he fuck up being opposition to the worst government in living memory so badly...

Because he has always been a complete tool.

 

[Scouse]

Al Jazzle has a very different take...

 

[Wij]

Al Jazzle has a very different take...

Take yes but it doesn't refute the specific allegations against Corbyn.

 

[Scouse]

Take yes but it doesn't refute the specific allegations against Corbyn.

What do you expect from the nutbar stop-the-war coalition? He's involved with them, he's come from a backbench position, he's not been groomed for the Labour leadership.

There's absolutely no doubt that there's a well-organised well-funded smear campaign against Corbyn by the pro-Israel lobby. The question: Is Corbyn antisemitic? is easily answered: Fuck no.

He's been open from the start about his support for Palestine and Palestinians. It's clear that he wants to be able to criticise Israel openly if he ever makes it to PM - so this is never going to let up.

Yes, he's an amateur asshat. But he's not racist and he's not antisemitic. And surely, in the end, that's all that should matter. But it's not all that matters is it. Not in the face of racist racist Israel and decades of blind support for a country that acts in the way that it does.

 

[Job]

I dont have a problem with him laying wreaths, it just doesnt look good to the endlessly offended and I dont like them to cherry pick their offence.

 

[Scouse]

@Wij (and anyone else who's genuinely interested in part of (a large part of)) the reason why Britains political system is failing us in opposition right now - this long read frames the context of current mud slinging very well.

Definitely worth reading the whole thing.

If you doubt the effectiveness or reach of the pro Israeli lobby:

Following Hurricane Harvey, last summer, the city of Dickinson, Texas required residents who wanted relief to certify that they do not and will not boycott Israel, a demand the ACLU’s Texas legal director called “an egregious violation of the first amendment, reminiscent of McCarthy-era loyalty oaths”.

 

[Wij]

@Wij (and anyone else who's genuinely interested in part of (a large part of)) the reason why Britains political system is failing us in opposition right now - this long read frames the context of current mud slinging very well.

Definitely worth reading the whole thing.

If you doubt the effectiveness or reach of the pro Israeli lobby:

Interesting read thanks and I get the point but it doesn't mean that it was OK for Corbyn to lay a wreath on the graves of terrorists. He should have better judgement. He should have better judgement than appearing on Iranian state TV. He should have better judgement than chairing tankie-fronts like STWC.

 

[Scouse]

I disagree @Wij.

Getting your hands dirty, sitting down and talking to "our friends" in Hamas, expressing an understanding and sympathy for the suffering of palestinians, giving convicted terrorist and child killer Nelson Mandela a hug, or an award or two, proclaiming that they're fighting the good fight, despite the atrocities they've been involved in - are all things politicians *should* be getting involved in.

Creating and moving along a dialogue involves being seen with and taking part in activities with people who you might profoundly disagree with on many issues - but have common ground with on another.

You may well show solidarity with not-so-squeaky-clean Palestinians (because if they're public figures there's definitely going to be *some* contentious issue, otherwise they wouldn't be public figures) but not agree with some members of that groups methods...

...but on balance, you feel that they're being oppressed by an apartheid state so you want publically express your support for their struggle, but not for baby-killing.

Of course, the press can dig up a photo and proclaim you a supporter of child killers or paedophiles if they like. And those who are groomed for government are kept away from those photo ops.

But if you're a fringe radical, doing contentious things because you think it's in the interests of the greater good, you can't avoid it.

Or the smears that come with having done it - before you miraculously ended up leader of the labour party.

 

[Job]

Well, he's saved the Tory party and kept labour out of power till the next celestial pole motion of the earth, so always a silver lining.

 

[DaGaffer]

Interesting read thanks and I get the point but it doesn't mean that it was OK for Corbyn to lay a wreath on the graves of terrorists. He should have better judgement. He should have better judgement than appearing on Iranian state TV. He should have better judgement than chairing tankie-fronts like STWC.

I imagine at the time he thought the chance of him having a crack at PM was about the same as him being the first astronaut on the Sun so hobnobbing with Hamas didn't matter a jot. He's a cardigan-wearing Islingtonite non-entity and the living embodiment of the Peter Principle (although you could also throw that accusation at Theresa May).

 

[Job]

Remember the good old days when aspiring PMs promised tax cuts, more nurses and the three Rs in education.
Now its ridiculing cults.
Things have picked up.

 

[Moriath]

View: https://twitter.com/SarahDuggers/status/1029514363122659328


I liked this.

 

[Wij]

Useful thread on the anti semitism thing. One thing some people object to in the full definition is that it says comparing Israel to Nazis is anti Semitic. They think that somehow limits criticising Israel. Read the full thread:


View: https://twitter.com/SolHughesWriter/status/1030382562957508609

 

[Job]

View: https://twitter.com/SarahDuggers/status/1029514363122659328


I liked this.

Pretty awesome..that could be the new Spitting Image.

 

[Job]

So..on stage wirh the first female plane Hijacker.
I mean technically theres nothing wrong with that..but holy fuck, Corbyn just keeps giving.
Im waiting for his Bin Laden birthday card.

 

[DaGaffer]

Useful thread on the anti semitism thing. One thing some people object to in the full definition is that it says comparing Israel to Nazis is anti Semitic. They think that somehow limits criticising Israel. Read the full thread:


View: https://twitter.com/SolHughesWriter/status/1030382562957508609

Bit of a semantic debate. "Nazis aren't quite the right analogy, you should use South Africa, or post-colonial Britain". Yeah, because that really trips off the tongue.

As it happens, I think going the full Godwin in criticism of Israel isn't useful, because to be honest comparing the Nazis to anyone isn't useful. But I also think its a side-issue. Criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism despite the best efforts of the pro-Israel lobby to claim it is, and that's the issue that really matters.

 

[Wij]

Bit of a semantic debate. "Nazis aren't quite the right analogy, you should use South Africa, or post-colonial Britain". Yeah, because that really trips off the tongue.

As it happens, I think going the full Godwin in criticism of Israel isn't useful, because to be honest comparing the Nazis to anyone isn't useful. But I also think its a side-issue. Criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism despite the best efforts of the pro-Israel lobby to claim it is, and that's the issue that really matters.

South Africa trips off the tongue quite nicely tbh

 

[Gwadien]

Bit of a semantic debate. "Nazis aren't quite the right analogy, you should use South Africa, or post-colonial Britain". Yeah, because that really trips off the tongue.

As it happens, I think going the full Godwin in criticism of Israel isn't useful, because to be honest comparing the Nazis to anyone isn't useful. But I also think its a side-issue. Criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism despite the best efforts of the pro-Israel lobby to claim it is, and that's the issue that really matters.

I think it's used as comparison to show the hypocrisy of the world turning a blind eye to what Israel is doing and openly supporting them, when the world was so critical of actions of other countries against minorities.

 

[DaGaffer]

South Africa trips off the tongue quite nicely tbh

Yes but millennials don't really know much about Apartheid, they do know what a Nazi is (or at least the shorthand Nazi=racist oppressor). This came out in that thread; the OP was pointing out that SA and elsewhere were both more recent and more appropriate, but if people know fuck all about even recent history, that doesn't actually help much.

 

[Gwadien]

Countries that have been oppressing the native people of the land since its conception.

I'd say Israel & SA are fair comparisons.

Even as a 'millennial'.

 

[Scouse]

Corbyn goes up north to kick-start Scottish Labour's election campaigns.

Guess what the story is about.

Jim Sheridan said he had lost "respect and empathy" for the Jewish community

Wow. How antisemitic is that? To say that you've lost respect for a community. Amazeballs.

I've lost respect for the muslim community, because of the propensity for Jihad, and for the catholic community, because of the prospensity for sky-fairy nonsense.

Doesn't mean I hate all muslims just because they're muslim or all catholics because of the god-bothering and insitutional paedophilia in their still-choosing-to-follow-it heirarchy.

Wonder how long ago those comments were posted too.

 

[Job]

One could almost conclude jews and muslims are widely disliked enough in common sight that Labour are reluctant to make a stand

 

[Scouse]

That's not what I was saying at all @Job. Not even close.

 

[Job]

No ..its just a conclusuon a cynic could make.

 

[Scouse]

No. It's something *you* said.

 

[Wij]

Interesting thread:


View: https://twitter.com/Will_Sutcliffe8/status/1031657488985350144