fotm....

[yaruar]

cannot guard properly because of lower shield spec

That's a bit harsh. Personally I have 42+13 shield, moblock 2 and over 300 dex when fully buffed. I guard just fine.

 

[Summoner]

That's a bit harsh. Personally I have 42+13 shield, moblock 2 and over 300 dex when fully buffed. I guard just fine.

Ic but... warrior has 50+11+rr in shield, mob3-4 and more dex in any case. That's my point of view. Even if thane specs 50 shield and gets mob3-4 pure guard bot is not acceptable anyway.

But .. sorry, if i meant to be a bit aggresive in my explaination.. realy wanted to make a point that warriors is a way better on the Dragon as a thane and thane is great as exit guard.

 

[yaruar]

Ic but... warrior has 50+11+rr in shield, mob3-4 and more dex in any case. That's my point of view. Even if thane specs 50 shield and gets mob3-4 pure guard bot is not acceptable anyway.

But .. sorry, if i meant to be a bit aggresive in my explaination.. realy wanted to make a point that warriors is a way better on the Dragon as a thane and thane is great as exit guard.

I agree totally, realistically if you are planning to drop the dragon quickly you only need 1 maybe second as backup warrior in the whole setup as a guardbot for the savage/zerk holding aggro.
I've always seen thanes as entrance guards, i've yet to hear reasons why we can't be.

 

[Margaret]

Bubble's weekly dragonraids on Golestandt in Alb/Prydwen have been with friars every time, because of their Fire resist buffs.

Friars have low hits. Lower, in fact, in most cases, than thanes. Friars use leather armour, as opposed to thanes' chain. Friars can't spec shield, thanes can(and most do). The only ranged spell a friar has to deal with adds(giants, in Albion, instead of doggies) is a taunt shout that gets resisted 9 times out of 10, thanes have castable DDs. I could go on...

I play a friar. I've been on most of those raids, and not once has my lack of Determination caused any raid wipes. Not once, in fact, has any of the other friars caused a raid wipe from not having Determination. If you know what you're doing and listen to the raid leader, you should be fine. If the raid leader or one of the healing classes can set up a Det field, even better. If you, on top of that, have Purge, you should have absolutely no problem with a dragon raid, even without Determination available as a RA for your class.

 

[Summoner]

dont even try to compare friar (acolyte) with thane (vicking).

u must use friars in group, it reduces dmg from pbae/ae dd. Friar buffs, friar heals when necessary. So please count friar as a secondary healer and buffer, such as shaman on mid.
we use shamans as well cos it's required.
albs use paladins and friars for end regen cos it's required.
hibs use warden and bard in group cos it's required. Well i've heard hibs can kill their dragon with 2 animists and 1 fop bot, so it's a bad example

EDIT: and beside once i've took part in leadership on albs DR as well (not on Excal). Yes, we used friars, we used scouts. Too bad most ppl were low rr, had mostly crap equipment and had no expiriece. So the raid failed but i was there mainly to provide em ideas and tactic schemas.

 

[Margaret]

I was comparing friars' and thanes' usefulness and ability to avoid a raid wipe even with lack of determination, Summoner. I wasn't saying that the two should be equal.

And besides, all the raids I've been on have had low-RR people, too. There hasn't been a single raid wipe. All it takes is listening to the raid leader and -doing- what they tell you.

 

[Summoner]

I was comparing friars' and thanes' usefulness and ability to avoid a raid wipe even with lack of determination, Summoner. I wasn't saying that the two should be equal.

friars is a support class, thane isnt. That's the difference. Support classes lack determination but they suppose to support and they do. Thane doesnt have any useful group abilities. Ok, thane is able to guard but warrior is able too and warrior is a way more useful... unless for guarding exits.

PS. Exit guards are required only o mid and hib DRs. Alb Dragon doesnt use to send messanger at least i've never seen.

And besides, all the raids I've been on have had low-RR people, too. There hasn't been a single raid wipe. All it takes is listening to the raid leader and -doing- what they tell you.

immagine some were even not lvl50, like a half were using crap drops. Even mercs were missing deter. Yes, it was still possible to kill the Dragon, failed at 6-7% after ae stun and pbae + ae while stunned.

PS. Ah.. i've just reminded: alb Dragon used to throw ppl into the air And it's kinda a problem too cos often he casted ae on the one who was just thrown...
PPS. The same ppl have managed to kill alb Dragon 2 weeks later btw beeing still low rr but better equiped with proper ra and so on.

 

[Margaret]

friars is a support class, thane isnt.

I would tend to disagree with you there. It's a shield tank with castable DDs. That, to me, smacks of 'support tank'. Protecting healers, interrupting casters, dealing damage from a distance...

immagine some were even not lvl50, like a half were using crap drops. Even mercs were missing deter. Yes, it was still possible to kill the Dragon, failed at 6-7% after ae stun and pbae + ae while stunned.

Uhm... you know that the dragon is an Epic mob, right? Going at an epic mob with ill-prepared, sub-50 characters is like holding up a marshmallow in front of your face and asking a dragon to gently blow on it.

 

[Summoner]

Protecting healers, interrupting casters, dealing damage from a distance...

protect is ok but it's not necessary to deal damage from the distance/interrupt casters on DR that's the point.
btw the Dragon used to clean his/her aggro list right after pbae/ae spell

 

[Margaret]

And in effect, a friar is best used as a healer-protector by simple expedient of a staff to the back of the skull of whoever's beating on said healer. Friars' healing abilities are, quite frankly, crap; only wardens have a worse healing spec line in the entire game. Friars, also, typically don't spec very high in their healing spec line precisely because their role in a group will be to apply the aforementioned staff to the aforementioned enemy's skull to free the healing class up for... well, healing.

EDIT: But I'm veering off the track of the discussion here. My original point with my post was that Thanes can be taken on dragon raids, just as Friars can, and pose no greater detriment to the raid by their lack of Determination than, well, Friars.

 

[Summoner]

lets switch to pm, i feel that it's time

cos here we all QQ about thane class - the one of those which mythic destroyed when implemented determination RA

 

[Sanzor]

dont even try to compare friar (acolyte) with thane (vicking).

u must use friars in group, it reduces dmg from pbae/ae dd. Friar buffs, friar heals when necessary. So please count friar as a secondary healer and buffer, such as shaman on mid.
we use shamans as well cos it's required.
albs use paladins and friars for end regen cos it's required.
hibs use warden and bard in group cos it's required. Well i've heard hibs can kill their dragon with 2 animists and 1 fop bot, so it's a bad example

EDIT: and beside once i've took part in leadership on albs DR as well (not on Excal). Yes, we used friars, we used scouts. Too bad most ppl were low rr, had mostly crap equipment and had no expiriece. So the raid failed but i was there mainly to provide em ideas and tactic schemas.

You refer to Pallies...understand why they are on dragon raids. But now for the wicked part..they lack determ too, right?

 

[anubis]

You refer to Pallies...understand why they are on dragon raids. But now for the wicked part..they lack determ too, right?

healers/shamans lack as well, whats yer point?
support class is support class
wtf does thane support?

 

[Sanzor]

healers/shamans lack as well, whats yer point?
support class is support class
wtf does thane support?

This just makes my point that Thanes should be included aswell...they can support for entrance guards. Shit..even if people can play their classes right, you wouldn´t be worring much about determ dammit >_<

 

[Rage]

Greetings

A shame that thanes get the short end of the stick, perhaps they will get redeemed in NF? Well dont take it to hard since Cemi0 has all his chars on a server that doesnt exist: Excaliber? {check signature, and change it to Excalibur} (sorry but I really had to, its almost as bad as ppl saying Midguard).

with regards
Rage

ps: I dont think Cemi0 is anything than a guy who happened to fumble while writing his sig. I just hate to see misstypes like Excaliber and Midguard flung around in cyberspace

 

[Arawn]

u talking about the dragon raid, well keep in mind those raids are for 25ppl and with as balanced grps and layout as possible

thanes because the lack of DETERMINATION do not fit in.
thats all.

u can purge one, but next mezz/stun kills you, and your grp.. keep that in mind. DETERMINATION greatly reduces CC on your char, ive played det5 chars and its was a true joy, when i got mezzed and it faded away so fast.

its nothing personal mate, but thane charachters have disadventage in this situation.

my thoughts

ps: ive never heard any other raids (tg or ml) didnt want thanes...

Hi mistul fotm...Albs raids with etc paladins , Minstrel on dragonraids and they do lack DET aswell

Skip the fucking bs and try to act like a "realm" and not 1fg sav/wars :wub:

 

[Marczje]

Hi mistul fotm...Albs raids with etc paladins , Minstrel on dragonraids and they do lack DET aswell

Skip the fucking bs and try to act like a "realm" and not 1fg sav/wars :wub:

Thats because they don't have a class to replace them?

 

[inviteme]

Well thanes might suck in most aspects but they are excellent zergers, so if you wanna RvR just zerg.

 

[yaruar]

Well thanes might suck in most aspects but they are excellent zergers, so if you wanna RvR just zerg.

and this is why people will still not invite thanes, people really are clueless.....
the only real disadvantage thanes have in RvR is lack of det. they do not "suck"
A well played thane can (depending on spec and ml) guard, bodyguard, interrupt both single target and AE, stun (with slam), assist with ranged damage, assist with melee damage, intercept. And pretend to be a healer to confuse the enemy
DPS might not be equal to pure classes, but there is no class who has the versitility of a thane in midgard.

 

[Summoner]

hibs always send pets on me if i play thane ^^

 

[yaruar]

hibs always send pets on me if i play thane ^^

I get that with albs, cabby's must love me!

 

[inviteme]

and this is why people will still not invite thanes, people really are clueless.....
the only real disadvantage thanes have in RvR is lack of det. they do not "suck"
A well played thane can (depending on spec and ml) guard, bodyguard, interrupt both single target and AE, stun (with slam), assist with ranged damage, assist with melee damage, intercept. And pretend to be a healer to confuse the enemy
DPS might not be equal to pure classes, but there is no class who has the versitility of a thane in midgard.

If people where clueless enough to mistake a thane for a healer (not saying you are not) I whould be surprised. And the lack of det is kinda big, the only thing a thane does better than other mid classes is a pbae shout on 30 sec timer. Anyway, im sure there are alot of people who dont care about classes in RvR so why not zerg around with them instead of trying to convince elitistic pricks that thanes aren't gimps?

 

[stubbyrulz]

you'd be suprised how many people mistake dwarf thanes for healers. when i rvr i nearly alway end up with the assist train on me i think most of the people in this realm should open there eyes and not just play with what they've told is best maybe think for themselves

 

[yaruar]

If people where clueless enough to mistake a thane for a healer (not saying you are not) I whould be surprised. And the lack of det is kinda big, the only thing a thane does better than other mid classes is a pbae shout on 30 sec timer. Anyway, im sure there are alot of people who dont care about classes in RvR so why not zerg around with them instead of trying to convince elitistic pricks that thanes aren't gimps?

A dwarf thane with a small shield looks exactly like a healer until they cast, seeing as most gorups immediately go for the shamen/healer it can give a group time. And you miss the point i was making slightly, a thane (like other hybrids) strength is in their bredth rather than their depth. If you want to build a group which serves a single purpose then it's not the class to have, but if you want a group which is adapatable to various situation then thanes and other hybrids are more useful. There are other ways to play the game apart from huge zergs and fotm gank groups.......

 

[anubis]

tbh assist train on healer is better than assist train on tank ;p
phase shift 4tw

 

[inviteme]

A dwarf thane with a small shield looks exactly like a healer until they cast, seeing as most gorups immediately go for the shamen/healer it can give a group time. And you miss the point i was making slightly, a thane (like other hybrids) strength is in their bredth rather than their depth. If you want to build a group which serves a single purpose then it's not the class to have, but if you want a group which is adapatable to various situation then thanes and other hybrids are more useful. There are other ways to play the game apart from huge zergs and fotm gank groups.......

A dwarf warrior whould look the same aswell, and few healers run with the assist train? Regardless i dont think it whould confuse any of the better RvR guilds.I dont know about the hybrid part, maybe that was the intention, but as it is now a hybrid group is the worst possible build for everything, with the exception of wallcamping where it prolly beats a pure tankgroup. They do provide a unique novelty fun-factor tho, all my thane groups have made me laugh in one way or another .

 

[Bhalage]

Hi mistul fotm...Albs raids with etc paladins , Minstrel on dragonraids and they do lack DET aswell

Skip the fucking bs and try to act like a "realm" and not 1fg sav/wars :wub:

erm ok m8...

hmm wait a bit lets me think about it...
albs use paladins and minstrels on DRs, despite they both lack of det.
omg
why is that?
<thinking>
hmm maybe because palas are the best shield units in this game for pve purposes with their chants and defense?
maybe minstrels got songs to support the others?

both classes are superior in utility over thane ON DR and both classes are needed ON DR in alb i think... ofc i may be wrong, but i played alb, so those are facts that happened. did u played mid?, u seem to be so smart...

imo try to act less arrogant and get some clue.
:]

 

[Summoner]

ministrels are not relay needed on DR.

 

[Margaret]

Minstrels have SoS.

When the dragon has stunned the whole raid and glares at someone in the middle, it's a damn handy thing to have.

Plus, of course, they do well clearing the adds.