fortresses fix: load of bollocks

[Raven]

Well the way they are going we will be able to have some awesome 1 v 1!

 

[`mongoose]

Means they will continue to move the amount down...

Well on Sunday at "prime time" we had two fantastic efforts.

Firstly Destro managed lock Reikland and open up the Reikwald for an attack. unfortunately lots of people were disconnected after 20 minutes as the fortress crashed and when we reconnected we were reset back to the outer door. We continued the attempt for another 20 minutes until the whole of the T4 Chaos / Empire pairing went belly up for around 3 hours.

This resulted in a counter lock attempt from order who successfully managed to lock Chaos Wastes and attack our fortress.

Lag was a pain but managable and we got through the whole hour without a crash. Thankfully we were able to keep the horde at bay and it was reasonably good fun.

What I most enjoyed was playing the maw of madness scenario. That's great fun for melee dps classes

M

 

[Millz]

Yep absolute bollox!! I finally hit 32, the day before this announcement and thought yippee, i can finally join the big boys!! The next day im told, no fun for you, just pve grinding and boring scenarios!! Thx Mythic!!

 

[Flimgoblin]

Yep absolute bollox!! I finally hit 32, the day before this announcement and thought yippee, i can finally join the big boys!! The next day im told, no fun for you, just pve grinding and boring scenarios!! Thx Mythic!!

just get there early (though no doubt we'll have an "omgz non-40 in the fortress! get out to let my meightzors in with their tier 17 gear!" whine fest at some point)

 

[Tallen]

Yep absolute bollox!! I finally hit 32, the day before this announcement and thought yippee, i can finally join the big boys!! The next day im told, no fun for you, just pve grinding and boring scenarios!! Thx Mythic!!

You can still orvr and participate in fort raids...it's just you might wind up removed from the fort raid at some point. It's not that big a deal tbh as the raid only lasts an hour anyway, but i can certainly sympathise with your frustration, i got equally annoyed at it and still am to a certain extent.

 

[Flimgoblin]

You can still orvr and participate in fort raids...it's just you might wind up removed from the fort raid at some point. It's not that big a deal tbh as the raid only lasts an hour anyway, but i can certainly sympathise with your frustration, i got equally annoyed at it and still am to a certain extent.

Not even that - they won't get removed from the fort raid.

The level thing is 'higher levels can turn up a bit later' -> that's it...

If you're level 28 and get to the fort when the zone gets capped you'll be there until you leave.

It does mean that level 40s have more chance of getting back in after a release/ld/whatever... though from personal experience you'll just end up unable to get back in after a release whatever your level

The problem I see with the caps though is a community one - if people start abusing the lower levels "/2 get out of the fort you level 32 noob! my level 40 ubergear meightor wants in!" then it's a slippery slope to "/2 noone in the fort other than <alliance X> and <alliance Z> RR 70+ wearing King gear - it's for the realm's best interest folks..."

 

[mooSe_]

Not even that - they won't get removed from the fort raid.

The level thing is 'higher levels can turn up a bit later' -> that's it...

If you're level 28 and get to the fort when the zone gets capped you'll be there until you leave.

It does mean that level 40s have more chance of getting back in after a release/ld/whatever... though from personal experience you'll just end up unable to get back in after a release whatever your level

The problem I see with the caps though is a community one - if people start abusing the lower levels "/2 get out of the fort you level 32 noob! my level 40 ubergear meightor wants in!" then it's a slippery slope to "/2 noone in the fort other than <alliance X> and <alliance Z> RR 70+ wearing King gear - it's for the realm's best interest folks..."

Can't we just ignore these people though? They don't make the rules. If I want to go into the fort I will regardless of whether mr ubergear likes it or not. If they whine at me i can /ignore them or explain that it wasn't me who put the population caps in place.

 

[Turamber]

Can't we just ignore these people though? They don't make the rules.

You can do, but from what I saw on my server (before quitting) the whine spreads and you can expect to get moaned at on the forums. I got a right bollocking a few times for daring to take my level 34 warrior priest into a tier 4 scenario when fighting over a zone.

But to be honest, for me anyway, the game isn't worth the level of aggro it causes. PvE is dull and the RvR is even worse with way too much crowd control, horrible global cooldowns and high DPS classes with ridiculous pull abilities.

Horrible game :/

 

[Faeldawn]

Can't we just ignore these people though? They don't make the rules. If I want to go into the fort I will regardless of whether mr ubergear likes it or not. If they whine at me i can /ignore them or explain that it wasn't me who put the population caps in place.

I laugh at them and have taken a lvl 29 into T4 scenarios several times when told not too just to piss em off. The whine is awesome and so funny

Ofc, i did my share at lvl 29 and was always the top healer on order or thereabouts, usually the top healer of both factions. For me it's about proving a point rather than being an ass for the sake of it

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I laugh at them and have taken a lvl 29 into T4 scenarios several times when told not too just to piss em off. The whine is awesome and so funny

Ofc, i did my share at lvl 29 and was always the top healer on order or thereabouts, usually the top healer of both factions. For me it's about proving a point rather than being an ass for the sake of it

90% of the time I believe in everyone accessing the available content as suits them. When the larger team is trying to achieve a larger goal people doing what you've posted, Faeldawn, is unhelpful in the extreme. However, the people asking for the lower level and solo people to stay out of scenarios in a zone during a push can always handle it better, there is no need to whine and bitch at people.

I'll never ask lower level people to leave an RvR zone as everyone can contribute there and I think during zone pushes thats where the lower levels are more useful. Quite the opposite in fact - I'm grateful for any and all help if I'm organising stuff. Being brutal about it lower levels are going to die more in fights but they can soak up the attention of enemies, do scouting and contribute in lots of ways.

But not in scenarios during a zone push, all they do is cost the team they are supposed to be playing for.

 

[Mabs]

90% of the time I believe in everyone accessing the available content as suits them. When the larger team is trying to achieve a larger goal people doing what you've posted, Faeldawn, is unhelpful in the extreme. However, the people asking for the lower level and solo people to stay out of scenarios in a zone during a push can always handle it better, there is no need to whine and bitch at people.

I'll never ask lower level people to leave an RvR zone as everyone can contribute there and I think during zone pushes thats where the lower levels are more useful. Quite the opposite in fact - I'm grateful for any and all help if I'm organising stuff. Being brutal about it lower levels are going to die more in fights but they can soak up the attention of enemies, do scouting and contribute in lots of ways.

But not in scenarios during a zone push, all they do is cost the team they are supposed to be playing for.

while this is basically true it does cause a major prob

person A: ok all you lowbies, fuck off , your ruining our fun
person B: /quit
3 months later
person A: we need people to take a fortress
person B: not hepling you

its not helping the realm community spirit any
end of the day, people are trying to stop one bunch of people having fun so the minority can "win", and it comes across, im sad to say, as "i dont give a shit if your having fun or not, i want to get my fortress gear"

its a sympton of the so-called fix, and until something improves its going to cause more probs than it solves.

 

[Moriath]

i agree you cant ask someone to do something that the game mechanics allow them to do.

Why is your fun or targets any more right than theres

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Community spirit is also engendered by sometimes accepting you are not the right person for a particular job.

 

[Mabs]

Community spirit is also engendered by sometimes accepting you are not the right person for a particular job.

yes

but not by people who -believe- they are better telling others they are of no use

 

[peo]

Community spirit is also engendered by sometimes accepting you are not the right person for a particular job.

And who decides that?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

And who decides that?

Everyone decides for themselves. Consensus is reached when enough people agree the same thing generally.

If we're talking about community spirit, then those who bullishly enter scenarios 'because they can' despite it having a negative effect on the efforts of others are as bad as the people that bitch at them. Different standpoint, similar behaviour - I want what I want and damn everyone else.

If you have the right spirit in a community to start with, the whole scenario thing is a non issue. It doesn't arise. People will pull together because they want to. The thing to address is the behaviour of the people involved, not the scenario issue, which is just an arena for people to behave in an adaptive child fashion.

 

[peo]

Everyone decides for themselves. Consensus is reached when enough people agree the same thing generally.

If we're talking about community spirit, then those who bullishly enter scenarios 'because they can' despite it having a negative effect on the efforts of others are as bad as the people that bitch at them. Different standpoint, similar behaviour - I want what I want and damn everyone else.

If you have the right spirit in a community to start with, the whole scenario thing is a non issue. It doesn't arise. People will pull together because they want to. The thing to address is the behaviour of the people involved, not the scenario issue, which is just an arena for people to behave in an adaptive child fashion.

The little problem you are neglecting is that when someone says "you can't come" they decide for the other person if they are allowed to contribute or not.
Sooner rather than later it will lead to "noone apart from lvl40 rr60+ in the zone get out you noobs..." and that in turn means the people with lower gear level can't get the gear needed to be welcome.
Noone has the right to tell anyone else how to play something they pay for unless they are willing to pay for that person, I suppose you don't want to pay for someone else?
As long as everyone pays the same everyone has the same right to participate. Community spirit is destroyed by exclusion not built on it.

 

[Ctuchik]

Being brutal about it lower levels are going to die more in fights but they can soak up the attention of enemies,

aye, that way low levels are extremely useful. theres just something about targetting a low lvl and see how fast you can kill it thats just impossible to resist for most high lvl's

 

[Ctuchik]

The little problem you are neglecting is that when someone says "you can't come" they decide for the other person if they are allowed to contribute or not.
Sooner rather than later it will lead to "noone apart from lvl40 rr60+ in the zone get out you noobs..." and that in turn means the people with lower gear level can't get the gear needed to be welcome.
Noone has the right to tell anyone else how to play something they pay for unless they are willing to pay for that person, I suppose you don't want to pay for someone else?
As long as everyone pays the same everyone has the same right to participate. Community spirit is destroyed by exclusion not built on it.

but theres a line between still being useful or just going to a place because they can. level buff or not, they still arent as useful if they go to for example T3 as a lvl 15 as a lvl 25+ is.

just because your paying for the game doesent mean that u can do whatever u want. well you obviously can but u have to expect ppl not liking you for it.

"just because i can" and "u dont pay my sub" is really self centered and bad arguments in a game focused on team efforts. because your not helping the team efforts by going to places you really shouldn't be at if u think about it, paying your own subs or not. and just because u can go there doesent mean its a good idea to do so.

and even if low lvl's can work as a damage spounge(sp?) for the high lvl's doesent neccesarily mean that a higher level that can both take damage and dish it out isnt preffered.

 

[peo]

but theres a line between still being useful or just going to a place because they can. level buff or not, they still arent as useful if they go to for example T3 as a lvl 15 as a lvl 25+ is.

just because your paying for the game doesent mean that u can do whatever u want. well you obviously can but u have to expect ppl not liking you for it.

"just because i can" and "u dont pay my sub" is really self centered and bad arguments in a game focused on team efforts. because your not helping the team efforts by going to places you really shouldn't be at if u think about it, paying your own subs or not. and just because u can go there doesent mean its a good idea to do so.

and even if low lvl's can work as a damage spounge(sp?) for the high lvl's doesent neccesarily mean that a higher level that can both take damage and dish it out isnt preffered.

Self centered?
Well.
Were will you draw the line?
I'm not talking about t1 people going to t4 I'm talking about t4 people being excluded from t4 content and bitched on for doing things in their own tier.

What is more self centred, someone wanting to play the game and enjoying it or someone who wants the gear from wherever it is.

 

[Raven]

Its ok all those level 30s are probably nice guys irl so they can do what they like.

(Sorry couldn't resist, not seen the term for a while )

 

[Vell]

aye, that way low levels are extremely useful. theres just something about targetting a low lvl and see how fast you can kill it thats just impossible to resist for most high lvl's

This is especially true for healers. Get a group of level 10's to run around your healers at a keep take, and you'll find that most of their melee classes just don't get the healing to stay at the ram with oil pouring on their heads. It's really quite amusing.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

The little problem you are neglecting is that when someone says "you can't come" they decide for the other person if they are allowed to contribute or not.
Sooner rather than later it will lead to "noone apart from lvl40 rr60+ in the zone get out you noobs..." and that in turn means the people with lower gear level can't get the gear needed to be welcome.
Noone has the right to tell anyone else how to play something they pay for unless they are willing to pay for that person, I suppose you don't want to pay for someone else?
As long as everyone pays the same everyone has the same right to participate. Community spirit is destroyed by exclusion not built on it.

I'm not neglecting anything. I see where you're coming from but I approach it in a slightly different way. I see nothing wrong with asking people to help in the most effective way possible. Community spirit is indeed destroyed by exclusion but you cannot argue that someone pig-headedly doing what they know is not for the benefit of their team is acting in any other way than against the spirit of the community. However, there are ways of handling it. You can ask a person to please stay out of the scenario related to the zone push for the duration but nobody has a right to demand that they do so. Further, those requesting are not entitled to abuse the people that go enter the scenarios.

The person going into the scenarios has made a decision and they are excercising their right to play the game they want to play. They are absolutely entitled to do so. It is not, in any sense, in the spirit of the community though. If that community abuses them though for doing so perhaps that community probably isn't worth being part of. Or more accurately, there are elements of the community that could use a little work.

I'll ask people to stay out of scenarios. I won't exclude them from what we're doing. I am quite open about using the best people for a given job when there are larger goals. That means the better PvP guilds I'll ask to do certain tasks, that means people that are happier to knuckle down to scouting I'll ask. People that are better at working in a warband+ I'll move them where needed too.

And people that are better suited to scenarios I'll ask them to do that.

I want the best people for the job based on the resources to hand and have no interest in the squabbling or egos that may go on outside of a realm-level event. This scenario issue we are discussing is only a small part of that. Beyond asking that people help us by focusing their time in the most effective way possible I will not spend time on individuals. They choose to assist with the larger goals or not.

Sometimes people aren't paying attention to zone pushes etc and you'll always get randoms in scenarios. Sometimes scenarios are all that an individual is interested in. Getting some opted groups in is what we'd prefer but anyone leading who can't accept it won't always be perfect is hmm...not very will informed about the way the world (real or virtual) works

So in short: yes, I'll ask for lower level people to stay out of scenarios. Its up to them whether they do or not. I respect their right to play the way they want to play. I am not required to respect the way they play.

 

[Mabs]

and thats the prob

people need to earn the right to lead, and people will follow them and it will work

telling people what to do and when, just cos your a 40 with slightly better gear is going to get us nowhere fast

 

[Flimgoblin]

The game mechanics need to change to make it not a case that by joining a scenario as not-the-best-person-on-your-side isn't screwing things over

Or at the very least that it balances scenarios a bit better based on RR/level/win ratios/fixed groups etc. (so all the non-40s joining end up against the enemy non-40s and not the enemy level 40 set groups).

Personally I'd rather see people organising groups out of those wanting to join scenarios and getting people to listen/work with tactics rather than just trying to convince people not to play.

If the warning is "Best not to bother with <scenario X> unless you're in a setgroup - we're trying to lock the zone and it'll be filled with enemy set groups which are about as much fun as ramming sharpened needles into your eyes to fight against." it's a whole different message to "don't join we want to win".

 

[Tallen]

and thats the prob

people need to earn the right to lead, and people will follow them and it will work

telling people what to do and when, just cos your a 40 with slightly better gear is going to get us nowhere fast

I know at least one person on Hirn/order who is probably on the ignore list of half the server, if not more, for this precise reason

Leaders rise, they establish themselves, people learn to trust them and it develops from there. Some people seem to think that because they are the highest rank on the server or because they shout the loudest that automatically makes them leaders....not always the case.

 

[Tallen]

Community spirit is also engendered by sometimes accepting you are not the right person for a particular job.

It's also reasonable to realise that level is not always a good indication of ability or the level of contribution that player can offer.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

It's also reasonable to realise that level is not always a good indication of ability or the level of contribution that player can offer.

Agreed.

An indication of how complex sometimes sorting things out can be.