Rant flipping embarrassing!

[Vasconcelos]

As I said, you are only on the DNA database if you have been arrested or submitted a DNA sample to the police for some other reason. The police are pushing for DNA to be stored permanently, but six years is the current limit, hopefully it will never be extended, but we will see.

As for the proposals on the cards, early proposals would have had biometric details and medical records too. Newer proposals are as you say, name, address DOB ect. That still doesn't make it right. The main point here is the word "Compulsary", it doesn't matter what is on the card, it is the fact that as a free citizen you are expected to carry it and someone in authority can demand to see it.

Ty for the clarifying

Only thing Im still not able to grasp is the mentality of 'not even authorities have the right to ask you to identify yourself'. Sounds more like what an american would do, but I guess being not a briton makes it harder to understand.

Another option would be to carry a controlled experiment, and test the ID cards for a year on some subjects to see if it works

 

[Ch3tan]

Ty for the clarifying

Only thing Im still not able to grasp is the mentality of 'not even authorities have the right to ask you to identify yourself'. Sounds more like what an american would do, but I guess being not a briton makes it harder to understand.

Another option would be to carry a controlled experiment, and test the ID cards for a year on some subjects to see if it works

Do you not think the authorities stopping citizens for ID on the spot is very very police state? Are we really going to let fear of terrorism take us to these extremes? The police can ask you for ID and you have 7 days usually to provide it if you have none on you.

 

[ford prefect]

Possibility to quickly check for a persons ID (police can verify your name, age etc). The police SHOULD have a right to stop and ask for ID, if yoiu haven't done anything wrong and it's done with a simple question, you shouldn't be against it.

No more trouble with prooving identity, anywhere, any time. No one can pose as you either and they can't be faked (ID chip would help in this, if the card itself only held the same info that is written). The ID chip would be unique and connected to a simple database(where there is only regular info of you).

Police stopping you for no reason and demanding ID, stinks of a Police state. Not something that should ever be seen in a free society. That simple.

More importantly, as a UK citizen, if you discount passports - going abroad, the only times I have been asked to produce ID was when opening a bank account, buying a car or taking out a mortgage. Others may have had different experiences, I don't know.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Just because the police have a right, doesn't mean you'll get stopped and IDd every corner of the way.

If you're wwearing a hoodie, walking in an alleyway at 3am, it MIGHT be a good idea to check who you are.

It's nto a police state, it's making sure and protecting the community. If you have no bad intentions, a quick ID check isn't going to ruin your day and you can go on freely with your life. It's not going to stop you from doing X, Y or even Z.

Then again, perhaps the UK people have been beaten into a state of non-adjustable paranoia that the police aren't there to help for you lot.

And ford, wouldn't it be just handy to have ID at any point? Just think about it, really think about ti otuside your personal experience and your paranoia of a police state.


Less big brother for the UK TV, you're over-paranoid you are

 

[Vasconcelos]

Do you not think the authorities stopping citizens for ID on the spot is very very police state? Are we really going to let fear of terrorism take us to these extremes? The police can ask you for ID and you have 7 days usually to provide it if you have none on you.

I think you put it into an extreme vision.

In my entire life Ive been asked for my ID by a cop once, after an ETA bombing, apparently they were looking for a 1,80m young male with dark hair and a bagpack (I was heading to uni). I showed them my ID, they checked it on their police car computer, and let me go with a "Thanks a lot for your cooperation". No paperwork, no 7 days to go to local police station, no further phone calls to check,...just that. And Im the only one I know who has been asked for their ID, not my gf, sister or friends (maybe its because Im just the cookie-cutter citizen).

On the other hand, I never thought about the inconvenients. And in the last years, with the adition of the chip, the digital ID card rly made my life easier for some stuff.

Yet again, I do understand that an ID card touches some issues with national way of life, visions, etc...

 

[Ch3tan]

Police stopping you for no reason and demanding ID, stinks of a Police state. Not something that should ever be seen in a free society. That simple.

More importantly, as a UK citizen, if you discount passports - going abroad, the only times I have been asked to produce ID was when opening a bank account, buying a car or taking out a mortgage. Others may have had different experiences, I don't know.

Being asked for ID in a shop is no valid reason to spend billions on an ID card scheme. It's a small inconvenience, I know I get Id'd a lot in bars and shops, so I make sure I have ID when buying booze. For youngsters there are proof of age schemes, and again no one has argued against a voluntary national ID card with basic info.

Someone mentioned that the info about passports and driving licences is already centralised, it is not. When you apply for a driving license online, you can GIVE PERMISSION for the DVLA to ask the passport service for your passport picture. This is not the same as all that data being in one location accessible by any government or law enforcement agency,

 

[ford prefect]

Just because the police have a right, doesn't mean you'll get stopped and IDd every corner of the way.

If you're wwearing a hoodie, walking in an alleyway at 3am, it MIGHT be a good idea to check who you are.

It's nto a police state, it's making sure and protecting the community. If you have no bad intentions, a quick ID check isn't going to ruin your day and you can go on freely with your life. It's not going to stop you from doing X, Y or even Z.

Then again, perhaps the UK people have been beaten into a state of non-adjustable paranoia that the police aren't there to help for you lot.

And ford, wouldn't it be just handy to have ID at any point? Just think about it, really think about ti otuside your personal experience and your paranoia of a police state.


Less big brother for the UK TV, you're over-paranoid you are

It is not about paranoia it is about experience. I was recenty talking to a desk sargent (Sargent in charge of the custody suite in a police station). He hasn't been on the streets for nearly 20 years now, but he was happily telling me how in his day they preferred to get a confession before an interview. Apparently to save time.

Now I am not saying things are like that now, because they aren't, but it stands to reason, you take 100 people and you put them in uniform, 10 of them are going to be bastards. I have known people with 10 year heroine addictions, denied medical intervention for 18 hours and then interviewed on very serious charges for example.

I work with the police, and I have a lot of friends on the force too, but I still wouldn't trust them. Simple as that really. The truth of the matter is that the police in general ar the same right across europe from my experience too. Perhaps the rest of europe just isn't paranoid enough.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It is not about paranoia it is about experience. I was recenty talking to a desk sargent (Sargent in charge of the custody suite in a police station). He hasn't been on the streets for nearly 20 years now, but he was happily telling me how in his day they preferred to get a confession before an interview. Apparently to save time.

Now I am not saying things are like that now, because they aren't, but it stands to reason, you take 100 people and you put them in uniform, 10 of them are going to be bastards. I have known people with 10 year heroine addictions, denied medical intervention for 18 hours and then interviewed on very serious charges for example.

I work with the police, and I have a lot of friends on the force too, but I still wouldn't trust them. Simple as that really. The truth of the matter is that the police in general ar the same right across europe from my experience too. Perhaps the rest of europe just isn't paranoid enough.

You can't choose which systems to put in place because of bad workers or corrupt cops.

You sayign 10% of the police force being corrupt and "bad people" shows exactly how paranoid you are.

And comparing anything modern to 18 years ago is silly to begin with.

I've yet to hear one good argument why an ID would be a bad thing.

It doesn't automatically give police the power to stop and ID you, it doesn't automatically mean you'll get IDd more, it's no inconvinience to carry, it costs next to nothing and so on.

 

[Calaen]

Exactly what part of the it's going to cost the UK billions of pounds to get our ID card scheme up and running don't you understand?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Exactly what part of the it's going to cost the UK billions of pounds to get our ID card scheme up and running don't you understand?

It's not really a reason not to do things.

Everything costs money.

If it's worth it, all things considered, then it's worth it.

No one here is saying the DNA etc ID card is a good idea.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But i think this discussion isn't really worth it as i doubt UK officials read freddyshouse.

If they listened, they could change the system to the EU ID card system(cheaper too).

Since they don't, they'll either scrap the dna id supercard system, or push it through.

So why should we fight amng ourselves about it

 

[Turamber]

Then again, perhaps the UK people have been beaten into a state of non-adjustable paranoia that the police aren't there to help for you lot.

No, we have a different perspective as to political, religious and ethical freedom. Some of you are from countries that have had military dictatorships in recent years, and the general populace of your countries doesn't mind the idea of ID cards.

For many people in the UK it is anathema.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, we have a different perspective as to political, religious and ethical freedom. Some of you are from countries that have had military dictatorships in recent years, and the general populace of your countries doesn't mind the idea of ID cards.

For many people in the UK it is anathema.

Yeah, especially sweden and finland have recently been in total dictatorship situations. It was really bad i tell ya

For us with dictatorship background, especially recent (sweden had it REALLY bad), ID cards mean "a way to prove identity if needed"

Horrible, i know!

 

[Lethul]

I preferred the military dictatorship, so much freedom I don't know what to do now days

 

[old.Tohtori]

I preferred the military dictatorship, so much freedom I don't know what to do now days

Remember two years ago? The days of El Presidente Maximilian? Those were the days, oh i wish that unfree scandinavia would come back

 

[Olgaline]

I'll card anyone I suspect of beeing under age....

here's a funny stat for you though btw

Can legally buy Booze = 16
Can Legally buy Cigs = 18

No young man! I cannot sell you this packet of marlboros that might kill you, some time
in the far off future, but fear not padiwan, for I can Legally sell you this bottle of 89,9% Absinthe wich can kill you in roughly abit under 30mins...

 

[Vasconcelos]

in the far off future, but fear not padiwan, for I can Legally sell you this bottle of 89,9% Absinthe wich can kill you in roughly abit under 30mins...

Wheres that liquor store?

 

[Olgaline]

I wouldnt know

 

[mooSe_]

I wish I could find a shop that:
a. sold absinthe
b. where the guy behind the till talked to me as though he was a jedi

 

[Olgaline]

this can be arranged
and if you live in the uk,
absinthe is legal, as long as the thujone levels don't exeed 35 ppm "not that it really matters"

 

[Vasconcelos]

I wish I could find a shop that:
a. sold absinthe
b. where the guy behind the till talked to me as though he was a jedi

This are not the absinthe you are looking for