First original forum thread!

[Sar]

Yes I remember you Babs (I remember A3 well).

Trust me, Bodhi and I are nowhere near bum-buddies, but when we agree on something, it's saying a lot.

 

[Doomy]

I was, not a great deal of time in the forums (ra3l one mostly), but a hell of a lot of time on the servers and in the leagues. Hopefully Sar will remember me, perhaps a bit better as xBaboon (a3) I know I certainly remember coming up against him and his cronies in more than a few games.

The point I was making earlier Bodhi is that you insisted the games and series were identical, which was completely untrue. There may only be small changes, but they make a HUGE difference in the way the game plays and feels. Suggest to any WE6 player that they should play PES2 instead and they'll probably do something nasty to you, and I remember the shock amongst the community and for myself at PES3 with it's easy headers and fast crosses. In any game series that has a loyal fanbase, the smallest change can make the game totally different for good and bad reasons. You've been around here long enough to remember the fuss with some of the later Q3 Point releases and the uproar the small changes caused, even though it was still the same game by name.

BTW if you like the PS2 for practical computing, have a look at the 65 Node cluster here. Crazy stuff.

OMG!

They found Saddams WOMD!

 

[Bodhi]

The point I was making earlier Bodhi is that you insisted the games and series were identical, which was completely untrue. There may only be small changes, but they make a HUGE difference in the way the game plays and feels. Suggest to any WE6 player that they should play PES2 instead and they'll probably do something nasty to you, and I remember the shock amongst the community and for myself at PES3 with it's easy headers and fast crosses. In any game series that has a loyal fanbase, the smallest change can make the game totally different for good and bad reasons. You've been around here long enough to remember the fuss with some of the later Q3 Point releases and the uproar the small changes caused, even though it was still the same game by name.

Two things spring to mind here...

1) You mean if ISS didn't have a loyal fanbase WE and PES would be the same?

2) Am I the only person who thinks the crossing mechanism in PES3 is fucking shit? Not because its "fast" (can't say I noticed a huge difference in speed from PES2), but because they never, ever go to the player they were intended to. In fact, a good percentage seem to end up behind the goal line.

 

[Frizz]

2) Am I the only person who thinks the crossing mechanism in PES3 is fucking shit? Not because its "fast" (can't say I noticed a huge difference in speed from PES2), but because they never, ever go to the player they were intended to. In fact, a good percentage seem to end up behind the goal line.

Nah, it's 'cos you're crap. :kissit:

 

[Bodhi]

Nah, it's 'cos you're crap. :kissit:

Right, get your arse to St Andrews and I'll show you who's crap. Del Piero will 0wn your ass on his own.

 

[Frizz]

It's a date then, oh and can i bring my personal fave; Maradona?

OOOoooohhh yeah!

 

[Bodhi]

It's a date then, oh and can i bring my personal fave; Maradona?

OOOoooohhh yeah!

Maradona will get you nowhere against Del's madskillz. I do have Pele in my Master League team tho if you want a proper ruck

 

[lovedaddy]

Right, listen up, the PS2 is less powerful than the Xbox, period. I've worked on 2 next gen titles now, and know the systems very well. The PS2 also has less memory, a MUCH weaker sound system, and a very poor IOP setup.
Technically, the xbox is better.

Does that mean its a better console, or that the power is being used effectively? Not always. The xbox is a very very nice system to develop for, the MS tools are simply outstanding, and their feedback is quick and accurate. I bet 9/10 games developers would drop the PS2 (and GameCube) in a second if it wasn't for the installed userbase.

Online stuff, the xbox is VERY much in the lead (as anyone thats been using Xbox Live! will vouch for). Work also kindly pays for both my PS2 and Xbox online accounts, and PS2 is a shoddy mess. So why did EA not go with MS for SSX3 - MONEY. To join live costs money, and basically hands control to MS, they wanted a bigger cut of the cash and to do what they wanted. MS didn't bite. Believe me, that is EAs loss.

So, bar Polyphony, can you think of many other in house Sony development teams? Cos I cannot. Konami for Pro Evo, capcom for the likes of Devil May Cry, Square for FF (who are already on the move), and Sega for VF4. Namco are already doing cross platform (with Xbox always ending up technically better). If the xbox2 has a better userbase in Japan, I'd expect to see a lot more Jap developers that have been usually in Sonys pockets starting to move.



* note, this does not mean that I think the PS2 is a bad console, far from it, between GT, Pro Evo, FF, DMC and many other class titles, you've got a console you'd be mad to not be impressed by.

 

[babs]

Two things spring to mind here...

1) You mean if ISS didn't have a loyal fanbase WE and PES would be the same?

2) Am I the only person who thinks the crossing mechanism in PES3 is fucking shit? Not because its "fast" (can't say I noticed a huge difference in speed from PES2), but because they never, ever go to the player they were intended to. In fact, a good percentage seem to end up behind the goal line.

1) No, not at all. What I mean is that when a set of people play a game a lot, especially one with a good engine, more of the nuances are picked up on, and when they are changed more people notice. In a sports game this is especially true. Maybe also worth noting that ISS has had very little to do with WE/PES. All of the ISS games (64, 2000, 2 etc) with the exception of the ISSPE games on PS are developed by KCEO and are very arcadey, the PES/WE series are developed by KCET who take the more realistic approach. The Osaka and Tokyo houses are famously competitive.

2) That's just you I'm afraid. First things first, change the crossing system in options to at least 4, ideally even 5 if you haven't already. When you attempt a cross make sure you aren't R1 sprinting, preferably not even R2. This lowers the accuracy a huge amount. Don't try and cross from a 90 degree angle, make sure you are facing at least diagonally towards goal. Obviously having fewer opposing players around you increases chances greatly. Because you aren't using the crappy auto cross system any more, you now have a lot more control. You can either manually float something in with O same as a normal pass, or hold L1 and either do O for a normal cross, OO for a near post cross or OOO for an along the ground one. If you want to put a lofted one in for a tall player, press R2 before the ball leaves the player's feet to float it.

All of that means you can put the ball pretty much where you want with practise. The sprinting and direction are the main culprits though, try training mode and doing some running 90 degree crosses and then walking facing the 18 yd box ones. Most people just leave the crossing model on the preset number 1 which is fun, but severly limits your control over it.

 

[babs]

Online stuff, the xbox is VERY much in the lead (as anyone thats been using Xbox Live! will vouch for). Work also kindly pays for both my PS2 and Xbox online accounts, and PS2 is a shoddy mess.

I can vouch here, I use Live now that there's something worth playing on it, and I've been on the PS2 beta since day 1. The network performance is good enough on PS2, but nothing feels coherent. I suppose the plus-side from their point of view is that they have a potentially huge market in EA Games. I know MS and EA have tried to bury the hatchet but it doesn't look like happening any time soon, but as long as good stuff keeps coming Live's way then I won't miss it for a second. konami soccer is 100 times better than fifa (KCET are developing a Live compatible xbox footy game now, it won't have the WE/PES name, but it should by all rights be good), and for my american sports fix I'm sega sports all the way now. If Sony centralised it all a bit more, which I know is difficult because of the way they want to go, it would make it more appealing.

 

[canny]

Playstation, massive selection of games something for everyone.

The ninetendo consoles only have a few good games which you can play without going mad at over the age of 10 years.

The rest are cutesy cutesy play wit me games, namely Yoshis island, and other ones like that. In other words there is literally fuck all "adult" games on the Nintendo consoles.

Resident Evil series on Gamecube?

 

[babs]

Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, MOH, F-Zero, PN 03, Rogue Squadron series, True Crime, Splinter Cell?

Of course, some of these are multi-format, but how many genuinely good, 'adult', exclusive games are there on any other format?

 

[Embattle]

PS2 online seems a half arsed affair, esp compared to XB.

 

[Sar]

Metroid Prime isn't a "cutesy" game either.

Even so, half of the cutesy games from Ninty are a damn sight better than most supposedly "adult" (read swearing, tits and blood, not as in mature) games on other formats.

The aforementioned Yoshi's Island is brilliant, as is the likes of Mario Kart, Super Mario World/Sunshine, DKC etc.

Give me Mario Kart over the likes of GT any day imo.

 

[stubbyrulz]

if u want a challenge get a game cube cos half the games r shit hard to finish if u want summet piss easy get a ps2 cos all the games are loads easyer on that and dont get an xbox cos there aint v many decent games on that

 

[leggy]

if u want a challenge get a game cube cos half the games r shit hard to finish if u want summet piss easy get a ps2 cos all the games are loads easyer on that and dont get an xbox cos there aint v many decent games on that

Punctuation, grammar and spelling are your friend.

Throw in a valid point and you're now a winner.

 

[babs]

There certainly weren't many reasons to own an xbox before the latter part of last year, Panzer Dragoon Orta was the only thing stopping mine collecting dust, but all over winter I've just been playing PGR2, Top Spin and Links 2004 mainly. There's plenty of decent stuff on the way too.

 

[Bodhi]

Online stuff, the xbox is VERY much in the lead (as anyone thats been using Xbox Live! will vouch for). Work also kindly pays for both my PS2 and Xbox online accounts, and PS2 is a shoddy mess. So why did EA not go with MS for SSX3 - MONEY. To join live costs money, and basically hands control to MS, they wanted a bigger cut of the cash and to do what they wanted. MS didn't bite. Believe me, that is EAs loss.

So, bar Polyphony, can you think of many other in house Sony development teams? Cos I cannot. Konami for Pro Evo, capcom for the likes of Devil May Cry, Square for FF (who are already on the move), and Sega for VF4. Namco are already doing cross platform (with Xbox always ending up technically better). If the xbox2 has a better userbase in Japan, I'd expect to see a lot more Jap developers that have been usually in Sonys pockets starting to move.

I would agree Xbox Live! is probably a better service than PS2 online, however online gaming is still very much a niche market in the console field, and I expect this to remain until at least the next gen of consoles. I get the impression PS2 online is a foot-in-the-water exercise for Sony, and I fully expect PS3 online to be the dog's preverbials.

Team Soho (responsible for The Getaway) and Team Liverpool (Wipeout Fusion) spring to mind straight away for in house Sony development studios, and I'd pretty much put Square in the same category, considering as I mentioned earlier Sony still have a majority stake in the creators of FF, which
I can't see them selling. This guarantees FF releases on PS2/3, a pretty good idea considering FF is no doubt one of the franchises that helped Sony shift 60million consoles. It also suits me down to the ground, as I already know which next-gen console I'll be getting, and barring complete idiocy on Sony's part, I suspect their doiminant position will continue well into the next-gen.

(On a completely random tangent, the company I'm worried for in the next-gen is Nintendo. They really need to rethink their strategy and stop relying on the Nintendo faithful. As much as it will probably pain any Mario devotee, Ninty need to focus far more on the mass-market to stay afloat.)

Oh, and I never said PS2 was more powerful than Xbox. Considering it came out 18 months before, there is very little way it can be. I simply said it wasn't underpowered (which it isn't) and that EE was faster than the Celeron in Xbox (which it is in pure floating point terms).

 

[Doomy]

I would agree Xbox Live! is probably a better service than PS2 online, however online gaming is still very much a niche market in the console field, and I expect this to remain until at least the next gen of consoles. I get the impression PS2 online is a foot-in-the-water exercise for Sony, and I fully expect PS3 online to be the dog's preverbials.

Team Soho (responsible for The Getaway) and Team Liverpool (Wipeout Fusion) spring to mind straight away for in house Sony development studios, and I'd pretty much put Square in the same category, considering as I mentioned earlier Sony still have a majority stake in the creators of FF, which
I can't see them selling. This guarantees FF releases on PS2/3, a pretty good idea considering FF is no doubt one of the franchises that helped Sony shift 60million consoles. It also suits me down to the ground, as I already know which next-gen console I'll be getting, and barring complete idiocy on Sony's part, I suspect their doiminant position will continue well into the next-gen.

(On a completely random tangent, the company I'm worried for in the next-gen is Nintendo. They really need to rethink their strategy and stop relying on the Nintendo faithful. As much as it will probably pain any Mario devotee, Ninty need to focus far more on the mass-market to stay afloat.)

Oh, and I never said PS2 was more powerful than Xbox. Considering it came out 18 months before, there is very little way it can be. I simply said it wasn't underpowered (which it isn't) and that EE was faster than the Celeron in Xbox (which it is in pure floating point terms).

So why is the xbox so poor? Given all the statements from different people (your piss poor controller argument is invalid as people who agree with you bought an S-Type) id love to hear your reasoning now.

 

[lovedaddy]

I would agree Xbox Live! is probably a better service than PS2 online, however online gaming is still very much a niche market in the console field, and I expect this to remain until at least the next gen of consoles. I get the impression PS2 online is a foot-in-the-water exercise for Sony, and I fully expect PS3 online to be the dog's preverbials.

Team Soho (responsible for The Getaway) and Team Liverpool (Wipeout Fusion) spring to mind straight away for in house Sony development studios, and I'd pretty much put Square in the same category, considering as I mentioned earlier Sony still have a majority stake in the creators of FF, which
I can't see them selling. This guarantees FF releases on PS2/3, a pretty good idea considering FF is no doubt one of the franchises that helped Sony shift 60million consoles. It also suits me down to the ground, as I already know which next-gen console I'll be getting, and barring complete idiocy on Sony's part, I suspect their doiminant position will continue well into the next-gen.

(On a completely random tangent, the company I'm worried for in the next-gen is Nintendo. They really need to rethink their strategy and stop relying on the Nintendo faithful. As much as it will probably pain any Mario devotee, Ninty need to focus far more on the mass-market to stay afloat.)

Oh, and I never said PS2 was more powerful than Xbox. Considering it came out 18 months before, there is very little way it can be. I simply said it wasn't underpowered (which it isn't) and that EE was faster than the Celeron in Xbox (which it is in pure floating point terms).

So between Team Soho and Team Liverpool you have 1 rehash of a wipeout game, and the getaway (4 years in development, and resulted in a shoddy over hyped mess, that only passed sony standards because they were in sony's pocket). MS exclusive dev teams: rare, bizzare, temco, bungie, and thats just off the top of my head.

Any Live user will tell you, the service aint just a "test bed". Its integrated, fully functional, easy to use and stable. None of which I would use to describe experiences with PS2 online stuff.

I think your kidding yourself if you expect the PS3 to totally dominate. If the xbox2 gets off to a good start, developers will follow where the userbase is. And with the ease of the dev enviroment for xbox over ps2, it wouldn't suprise me if xbox2 had the more visually appealing games quicker, which, in turn will draw the attention of joe public.

 

[Embattle]

I agree....the getaway was shit.

MS does tend to throw more money around than Sony hence all the MS exclusive dev teams. It is also throwing more money at capturing market share since its console package currently includes games for the same price as the PS2 with no games which is bound to help it capture market share....but still not enough and the MS still has an even larger problem, they have continually had to devalue their product and still most probably haven't, nor will, ever really recover development and original manufacturing costs.

I personally don't believe that the PS3 will totally dominate but I still believe it will out sell the XB2 for no other reason than the % of current PS2 users who will go with the flow and move on to the PS3.

I look forward to the next battle for no other reason that both will no doubt end up using price as the key factor when trying to attract customers and ultimately the customer is the winner on both sides. A successful MS will also force Sony to pay more attention to its products at every stage which again will result in better products for the consumer.

 

[Sar]

GC2.


tbh.

 

[Moving Target]

Megadrive. Thx.

Score.

 

[babs]

GC2.

I don't know whether I prefer 'N5' tbh

and I'd pretty much put Square in the same category, considering as I mentioned earlier Sony still have a majority stake in the creators of FF

Enix have a bigger say now, being part of the same company. The Dragons Quest series is enormous and will continue to grow, and with 2 FF games already on other formats I would say if anything they're more likely to stray in future.

MS exclusive dev teams: rare, bizzare, temco, bungie, and thats just off the top of my head.

Rare: Grabbed by the ghoulies only so far, PD0 rumoured to be xbox2 bound now. Nintendo got by far the better end of their split deal. Bungie: 2 games, 1 not even out yet, not too much to be in awe of. Tecmo could do well, but they'll have to stop putting Ninja Gaiden back first. I want a developer who puts out more than 1 game a year - even if it's through '2nd party' developers (Nintendo & Metroid Prime).

Anyone who doesn't like the xbox pad, just go buy an adaptor and use your PS2 pad.

Nintendo will (hopefully) be the ones to catch in the next-gen competition, they've already gone on record as saying they will be first to release (plus the new mystery console thing next year), are investing in 3rd party support and will have GC backwards compatibility. MS are rumoured to be dropping the internal HD for xenon, and going for proprietory media so if anything are taking a leaf from Nintendo's books.

The only worrying part is when people say 'I know which console (singular) I'll be getting". Why on earth would you choose to omit the other 2 consoles from your collection? Missing great games to prove your devotion to a brand is madness.

 

[Bodhi]

Any Live user will tell you, the service aint just a "test bed". Its integrated, fully functional, easy to use and stable. None of which I would use to describe experiences with PS2 online stuff.

I think your kidding yourself if you expect the PS3 to totally dominate. If the xbox2 gets off to a good start, developers will follow where the userbase is. And with the ease of the dev enviroment for xbox over ps2, it wouldn't suprise me if xbox2 had the more visually appealing games quicker, which, in turn will draw the attention of joe public.

When did I say Xbox Live! was a test bed? If you read I said Sony were treating PS2 broadband as a public test if you will for PS3.

You're using a strange argument with respect to Xbox 2 there. Basing everything on an "if" never makes for the soundest argument in my book. You know PS3 will sell in huge amounts - as Embattle says, droves of PS2 buyers will upgrade to the latest model, knowing that GT, FF, PES, MGS and GTA games will be on their way.

Fusion was as much of a rehash as PGR2 is a rehash of PGR and MSR. Sure, at its core it was the same old Wipeout, however being a fan of the series, I always considered this a good thing. They just made it faster, harder and better looking. In addition, Zone mode is probably the most intense adrenaline rush availible on a console imo.

 

[Doomy]

When did I say Xbox Live! was a test bed? If you read I said Sony were treating PS2 broadband as a public test if you will for PS3.

You're using a strange argument with respect to Xbox 2 there. Basing everything on an "if" never makes for the soundest argument in my book. You know PS3 will sell in huge amounts - as Embattle says, droves of PS2 buyers will upgrade to the latest model, knowing that GT, FF, PES, MGS and GTA games will be on their way.

Fusion was as much of a rehash as PGR2 is a rehash of PGR and MSR. Sure, at its core it was the same old Wipeout, however being a fan of the series, I always considered this a good thing. They just made it faster, harder and better looking. In addition, Zone mode is probably the most intense adrenaline rush availible on a console imo.

Go on just say it, Xbox is good .....

 

[Frizz]

The only thing i see in the Xbox's future is Halo 2, but that's just me. However it might as well not exist if Front Mission 4 (an EXKLUSSIFF!!) comes out over in PAL territories.

 

[Gurnox]

Missing great games to prove your devotion to a brand is madness.

Most sensible thing I've heard all day.

 

[Bodhi]

Go on just say it, Xbox is good .....

Not imo. Not enough decent exclusive games to warrant a purchase in addition to PS2 (Only games that interest me are PGR2 and Halo, but then I've finished Halo on a friends Xflop and I can go without PGR2 considering GT4 is 5 months away), I don't like the controller (S included. 6 face buttons and 2 shoulders buttons = teh ergonomic nightmare), I'm not interested in online console games at this present stage in time, and the modding scene doesn't interest me in the slightest (w00t, I can mod an Xbox so it does exactly the same job as my PC - you'd almost think the xbox was a PC. Oh hang on.......).


You gonna stop convicing me to buy something I would have already bought if I wanted one now?

 

[Doomy]

Not imo. Not enough decent exclusive games to warrant a purchase in addition to PS2 (Only games that interest me are PGR2 and Halo, but then I've finished Halo on a friends Xflop and I can go without PGR2 considering GT4 is 5 months away), I don't like the controller (S included. 6 face buttons and 2 shoulders buttons = teh ergonomic nightmare), I'm not interested in online console games at this present stage in time, and the modding scene doesn't interest me in the slightest (w00t, I can mod an Xbox so it does exactly the same job as my PC - you'd almost think the xbox was a PC. Oh hang on.......).


You gonna stop convicing me to buy something I would have already bought if I wanted one now?

Such bitterness