First original forum thread!

[Bodhi]

Thing is right, I never mentioned FE, I know that to be PES 2.5 if you will. You seem to be basing you entire argument on something I never said. Maybe in retrospect you really should spend less time playing ISS and more time reading.


WE7=PES3

and no doubt WE7:FE which is in the works will be PES3.5, which is unlikely to be released over here.

 

[babs]

Next on the list is WE7:International which is a Multi-Language version released in Japan with a few new animations, slight alterations and up to date squads.

What I replied to was in fact this...

Winning Eleven isn't better than the Pro Evolution Soccer series. It is the same damn game, just called Winning Eleven in Japan, Pro Evo over here.

You refer to the series, which is what I talked about. Regardless of which, WE7 is not the same as PES3, it has noticably different gameplay. long shots are more accurate, crosses are lower and faster and are a lot easier to score from. This isn't just my opinion either.

Takatsuka: First of all, PES3 is different even from Winning Eleven 7 [the Japanese version it's based on] - the game balance is different. I would recommend using the R2 button while dribbling for instance.

Also, the crossing into the box has changed a lot - if you're someone like Figo, you should cut into the box more before putting in a cross.

Taken from an interview with 'seabass', the man responsible for the WE/PES series.

Being told outright that I am 'wrong' is not something I take kindly to. So which is it I should do again, more time playing or more time reading? I'm a little confused now.

 

[Hashmonster]

Sony confirmed its place as console king when it shipped its 60 millionth Playstation 2.

woohoo? shipped doesnt = sold. Sony are clever that way

Good to see the console forum on ere! where is ono??

 

[Bodhi]

Next on the list is WE7:International which is a Multi-Language version released in Japan with a few new animations, slight alterations and up to date squads.

What I replied to was in fact this...

You refer to the series, which is what I talked about. Regardless of which, WE7 is not the same as PES3, it has noticably different gameplay. long shots are more accurate, crosses are lower and faster and are a lot easier to score from. This isn't just my opinion either.

Taken from an interview with 'seabass', the man responsible for the WE/PES series.

Being told outright that I am 'wrong' is not something I take kindly to. So which is it I should do again, more time playing or more time reading? I'm a little confused now.

The tweaks mentioned by Seabass are consistent with the differences between Jap and Euro football - fast runs are a key factor in Japanese football (remember their performance in the last World Cup), favouring the R1 button, whilst in Europe close control is more important, so we favour the R2 button. He's obviously simply altered the balance of the same game to suit the palettes of the different gamers and the style of footbal they were brought up to play. A nice touch on Konami's part (I'd like to see try and do the same with FIFA - the results could be comedic) I must admit, but not enough of a difference to treat them as separate games.


You're still wrong.

 

[babs]

Dear god. Despite everyone who's ever played both noticing the difference, and the maker of the game saying they're different, you're still saying they're identical?

The small changes are what totally change a game like this, change the handling of a racing game you have a different game, the same goes for football. The crossing adds a whole new perspective, the long range shots mean the defence has to close out more and the balance that seabass refers to is the fact that R1 dribbling leaves the ball out of your control and is more likely to be picked off because the AI of the defenders has changed and they have a more aggresive mentality.

He doesn't say that we favour the R2 button, he says you need to use it more, because the game is different.

You say the games are identical. They aren't. And I'm wrong? Go out and buy the games, play them for yourself and then comment.

 

[lovedaddy]

SNES followed by the GBA.

As for the PS2...

Gran Turismo - the best driving game period.

GT3 was a disgrace next to GT2. The gameplay mechanics of PGR and PGR2 piss all over GT3.

Pro Evolution Soccer - the best footie game period.

Very good game, definetly the best footie game. But best sports game? Possible not, games just reviewed Top Spin saying it was equally as playable as Pro Evo 3

Grand Theft Auto - before you start chirping about how the xbox has these too now, you'll face a similar wait to get GTA4. Sucks to have an Xbox sometimes.

Better on xbox, period.

The Getaway - cracking story-based crime sim. Ignore the bugs - you'll be having too much fun to care.

Bug ridden garbage. How anyone can find a game fun were half the time your trying to battle against crash bugs and 'cannot complete the mission' type stuff is anyone guess.

Virtua Fighter/Tekken - two of the biggest beat em up franchises out there.
Final Fantasy - best RPG series ever?

I'll take a high res version of SC2 with a arcade stick thanks very much.

Wipeout Fusion - bit of a marmite game this one - you'll either love it or hate it. I love it.

Wipeout was old with 2097.

 

[babs]

SC2 is indeed great, VF4 does have something going for it, but it takes a lot of play to get any real reward. FF series are no longer Sony only territory either which is nice to see.

Top spin is good, but not best sports ever. WE6 and NFL2K1 on DC were pretty much tops for me. GTA, best on PC, end of argument No sucky framerate, keyboard and mouse controls and customisable.

Nintendo seem to be the only ones making truly exclusive, excellent titles time after time. Tekken (yawn), the getaway and GT are the only titles or series there to not appear on other formats in one guise or another.

 

[Bodhi]

SNES followed by the GBA.

As for the PS2...



GT3 was a disgrace next to GT2. The gameplay mechanics of PGR and PGR2 piss all over GT3.

GT3 was an improvement in every way over GT2, except possibly in number of cars featured. This was obviously bad - I must say I was gutted when I found the Vectra and 1.6litre Focuses (Should that be Focii?) wouldn;t be in GT3. PGR may be good, and is an excellent arcade style blast, but unfortunately thats all it is, just an arcade game. Depth wise it can't hold a candle to Polyphony's finest, and the handling isn't as good either.

Very good game, definetly the best footie game. But best sports game? Possible not, games just reviewed Top Spin saying it was equally as playable as Pro Evo 3

I never said it was the best sports sim - although it probably is. Only Tiger Woods and SSX get close imo.


GTA - Better on xbox, period.

Not by enough of a margin to justify the 18 month wait to get the game in the first place. When GTA games come out on Xbox, they're distinctly old hat, considering everyone's probably completed the next version on PS2 anyway.


The Getaway -Bug ridden garbage. How anyone can find a game fun were half the time your trying to battle against crash bugs and 'cannot complete the mission' type stuff is anyone guess.

Can't say Ihad any of these problems when I completed the game. I think it crashed once (half as many times as VC in my experience), and the bugs i encountered were minor and hardly affected my enjoyment of what was otherwise excellent title.


I'll take a high res version of SC2 with a arcade stick thanks very much.

That's all very well, but why limit yourself to one beat-em-up? Oh that's right, SC2 is the only decent beat-em-up on Xbox. Damn you Sony for offering a choice of 3! (Pls, don't even mention DOA3. It is horrendous.)

I'm glad square are releasing FF games for the other formats, however this really isn't a sign that they're about to abandon Sony, considering Sony still have a controlling stake in Square.

 

[babs]

Square isn't just Square any more though, Enix has a bigger say than Sony now. They'll never abandon Sony, that would be lunacy, but they'll never be one platform exclusive.

I still don't understand why anyone would blindly defend one platform over another though, what's the point in limiting yourself and not playing the best that each have to offer?

 

[Doomy]

Square isn't just Square any more though, Enix has a bigger say than Sony now. They'll never abandon Sony, that would be lunacy, but they'll never be one platform exclusive.

I still don't understand why anyone would blindly defend one platform over another though, what's the point in limiting yourself and not playing the best that each have to offer?

Weeeeeee. Agreed. And less arguing over it too.

 

[lovedaddy]

Weeeeeee. Agreed. And less arguing over it too.

No i agree, there is enough good games on all 3 next gen consoles to keep anyone happy, just boils my piss when fan boys go off on one calling anyone that doesn't fall into their gang clueless

 

[Doomy]

No i agree, there is enough good games on all 3 next gen consoles to keep anyone happy, just boils my piss when fan boys go off on one calling anyone that doesn't fall into their gang clueless

Weeeee agreed.

PS2, Xbox, GC all have their plus' and minuses and pig ignorant comments about xbox, PS2 and gc wind me up too. Sad really but true.

 

[Bodhi]

Apart from a few PS2 exclusives (and i stress a few) there is no reason in getting the underpowered rival of the Xbox imo.

My word, if it isn't a pig ignorant attack on PS2. In fact, it was what I was replying to in the first place.

 

[babs]

Surely the ignorant defence of it is just as bad?

 

[Doomy]

Surely the ignorant defence of it is just as bad?

Yeah, the sounds of a grave being dug deeper....

 

[Sar]

Or the sound of someone being hypocritical...?

 

[Doomy]

Or the sound of someone being hypocritical...?

No, it was personal preference.

1: The PS2 is underpowered compared to the Xbox
2: The xbox is a rival of the PS2.
3: Only a few exclusive titles on the PS2 remaining nowadays.

These facts were bolstered by my opinion that it would be sensible to get the Xbox over the PS2 purely based on my experience of having the 2 said consoles. At no point did i say the PS2 was shit, in fact i was saying the oposite but due to extreme 'cant find any other better thing to criticize Doomy' itus you are both picking holes in what was a fairly harmless, carefully construed and without meaning to sound bigheaded, 'educated' evaluation of the main 3 consoles in general.

Now shoo.

 

[babs]

TBH i coudn't tell what Sar was replying to anyway

 

[Sar]

Weeeee agreed.

PS2, Xbox, GC all have their plus' and minuses and pig ignorant comments about xbox, PS2 and gc wind me up too. Sad really but true.

Apart from a few PS2 exclusives (and i stress a few) there is no reason in getting the underpowered rival of the Xbox imo.

That is the hypocrisy I was referring to in my post.

 

[stubbyrulz]

ps2 probly got best games atm but i like my game cube problem is all the games are shit hard when u get bout half way through them :/

 

[Doomy]

That is the hypocrisy I was referring to in my post.

But my statement was all fact. In MY opinion ID rather get the XBOX over PS2 due to the FACT that the PS2 is UNDERPOWERED, and HARDLY has any more exclusives.

Yours and Bodhis posts suggests that the xbox is shit full stop. I like all 3 for different reasons but given the choice of all 3 id PERSONALLY get the xbox due to my reasons stated above. And if you read all my posts (try to remove ur tongue from Bodhi's arse if you want to read them) i said that and i quote...

Xbox if you want to run 35000 emulated roms on it.

Also if you want to play the best versions of cross platform games

Also if you want to play stuff like Deus Ex: Invisible war, Sonic Heroes, Amped 2, Metal Arms: Glitch In The System, Star Wars : Kotor, Top Spin Tennis, Counterstrike, Armed And Dangerous, Otogi 1 and 2, Kung Fu Chaos, Killswitch, Rainbow Six 3, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Panzer Dragoon Oorta,

Thats a brief glance at the most played games i got atm.

Apart from a few PS2 exclusives (and i stress a few) there is no reason in getting the underpowered rival of the Xbox imo. Or you could just do what i did and buy the lot.

You see, i have them all. I didnt buy the PS2 and its underpowered gubbins so i could sit and poke it with a stick and its far more useful than a doorstop. I bought it for games like ICO, GT, WE. In fact no i didnt, i bought it because i wanted it, had it since it came out (yes, i preordered etc, beat the q) and i love it. When a cross platform game comes out (far too many to name) i always walk straight past the PS2 section as i know which version will be the best, ill be getting the best version for the same price. Funnily enough when something like the new ICO comes out ill walk past the xbox version straight to the ps2 version. I wont grumble when its not on xbox because there is no point. Same with xbox exclusives (lots too)

The only hypocrisy here is a grown 28 year old man arguing like a child.

There is also a difference in pig ignorant observations and a factual statement, if i recall you wanted to burn the xbox?

 

[Sar]

But my statement was all fact. In MY opinion ID rather get the XBOX over PS2 due to the FACT that the PS2 is UNDERPOWERED, and HARDLY has any more exclusives.

Changed your tune then?

You're changing your standpoint in nearly every post you make...



And yes, I'd love to burn an XBox. It really would make my day.



PS: How am I arguing like a child? I may take the piss out of morons some times, but unless you're a humourless uptight anal boor, most adults do that.

 

[Doomy]

 

[Bodhi]

But my statement was all fact. In MY opinion ID rather get the XBOX over PS2 due to the FACT that the PS2 is UNDERPOWERED, and HARDLY has any more exclusives.

Yours and Bodhis posts suggests that the xbox is shit full stop. I like all 3 for different reasons but given the choice of all 3 id PERSONALLY get the xbox due to my reasons stated above. And if you read all my posts (try to remove ur tongue from Bodhi's arse if you want to read them) i said that and i quote...




You see, i have them all. I didnt buy the PS2 and its underpowered gubbins so i could sit and poke it with a stick and its far more useful than a doorstop. I bought it for games like ICO, GT, WE. In fact no i didnt, i bought it because i wanted it, had it since it came out (yes, i preordered etc, beat the q) and i love it. When a cross platform game comes out (far too many to name) i always walk straight past the PS2 section as i know which version will be the best, ill be getting the best version for the same price. Funnily enough when something like the new ICO comes out ill walk past the xbox version straight to the ps2 version. I wont grumble when its not on xbox because there is no point. Same with xbox exclusives (lots too)

The only hypocrisy here is a grown 28 year old man arguing like a child.

There is also a difference in pig ignorant observations and a factual statement, if i recall you wanted to burn the xbox?

Oh my word you are so dense :/

A few points:-

1) I'm fairly sure Sar doesn't have his tongue anywhere near my arse. In fact this is about as far from the truth as possible, considering how much time Sar and myself have spent at loggerheads over the years. Yet we still agree you're being a hypocrit (you know, preaching about not knocking a games console, 2 pages after laying into PS2). That not tell you something?

2) I don't really see PS2 being underpowered as a fact. Even ignoring the fact that EE is twice as fast as the Mobile Celeron in Xbox, you only have to look at the games to see this. The finest looking games on PS2 (GT4 if it looks the same as the preview videos, FFX, MGS2) look pretty damn comparable to the best on Xbox (there's at most a mouse's pube in it).

3) You've managed to start a flamewar in a thread that was started as a pisstake in the first place. In fact I think you were the first person not to realise this. Congrats.

4) Your walking staright past the PS2 version for multi-platform games really is a tad retarded in all honesty. Still suppose it will serve you right when you can't play SSX3 online.


Any more Xbox lambs for the slaughter?

 

[Doomy]

Im not starting a flamewar, just pointing out the silly fanboys. Just to make this TOTALLY clear for you and Sar.

I love all the consoles, i give them all 10-10. All of them have reasons to warrant a purchase. Some are more powerful than others and some have more features available to them but as a whole, having the lot is entirely worthwhile.

When i dared to give my reason as to why I would choose an xbox over a ps2 for instance i seem to recall being jumped on for daring to air such views. You said you felt sorry for me IIRC ) and all xbox owners.

Why are you two arguing with me still? I have said i love them all equally. I think what you are doing is exagerating my beliefs in PS2 vs Xbox views and using them to your advantage in a (stupid) bid to make me look like a hypocrite. My beliefs and opinions on this matter arent hypocritical at all, just slightly more advised due to the fact that i own all three and can see each of the consoles good points. All i am saying is if a mate of mine said to me 'what console should i get' id say xbox. All due to the above reasons, not because im a fanboy.

As far as the ps2 specs, if used correctly and to its limits the PS2 is capable of awesome games (lookswise). No racing game looks prettier than GT3 STILL after all this time. Its main rival now i guess is PGR2 which looks stunning in its own way but the GT game just edges it. GT looks more clean. But they both try to look different so its a silly comparison. The EE is rarely used to its fullest due to the hardships in coding it.

Id buy online SSX3 if i wanted to play it online on the PS2 but online snowboarding isnt my idea of fun, SP mode and a mates and a few beers is where its at as far as i am concerned.

Its not me thats dense, im just telling you what i think.

And the thread isnt seriously titled you are right, you seem quite passionate about arguing every little thing i say.

Baaaaa

 

[babs]

Even ignoring the fact that EE is twice as fast as the Mobile Celeron in Xbox

What is that based on? It can't be clock frequency, memory bandwidth, Floating point maths, instructions per second, fill rate etc. etc. etc. I'm just curious to know what you mean, that's all.

And I own an Xbox, amongst others. Slaughter me please, I had such fun the last time

I agree with Doomy, it may not be a serious thread, but you take up in arms about everything people say when it contradicts you in any way. I point out the differences in WE and PES, and you flat out tell me I'm wrong. How does that work now?

 

[Hashmonster]

babs and doomy... were u regulars on barrysworld or not?

this main explain a few things

 

[Bodhi]

http://ntsrv2000.educ.ualberta.ca/nethowto/examples/m_ho/ps2vspc.html

I quote

According to MicroDesign Resources, the processor can handle 6.2 gigaflops at 300MHz. A single gigaflop equals one billion floating-point operations per second. MDR says that makes the chip two times faster than a 733-MHz Pentium III

It's a good website, I'd recommend a read. Sheds a lot of light on that "underpowered" little black box (or silver if u r teh l33t liek meh), and its vast array of party tricks.

I never denied the fact that there were small differences between WE and PES (I even offered an explanation for them if you remember), I just said they were fundamentally the same game. Same game engine, same graphics, same sound, same controls. Slight differences in the control of the players does not a new game make - in a similar way to how Jap Tekken Tag plays different to the European version. They're still the same game though.

 

[Doomy]

Lol. Such fervent defense over the PS2 yet so little disagreement from others. Do you have one of these Bodhi?

If so i guess it all makes sense

Legal Disclaimer :

Picture does not represent views by me of the Playstation 2.

 

[babs]

babs and doomy... were u regulars on barrysworld or not?

I was, not a great deal of time in the forums (ra3l one mostly), but a hell of a lot of time on the servers and in the leagues. Hopefully Sar will remember me, perhaps a bit better as xBaboon (a3) I know I certainly remember coming up against him and his cronies in more than a few games.

The point I was making earlier Bodhi is that you insisted the games and series were identical, which was completely untrue. There may only be small changes, but they make a HUGE difference in the way the game plays and feels. Suggest to any WE6 player that they should play PES2 instead and they'll probably do something nasty to you, and I remember the shock amongst the community and for myself at PES3 with it's easy headers and fast crosses. In any game series that has a loyal fanbase, the smallest change can make the game totally different for good and bad reasons. You've been around here long enough to remember the fuss with some of the later Q3 Point releases and the uproar the small changes caused, even though it was still the same game by name.

BTW if you like the PS2 for practical computing, have a look at the 65 Node cluster here. Crazy stuff.