EA going to far again? (Me3)

[old.Tohtori]

since when did "opinion" = "fact" ?

December 2003'ish?

 

[Ctuchik]

You can hear it from that TB rant about coding, where he thinks putting in a dog companion that follows you around is "just a touch of coding". Usual gamer opinion which has no bearing on reality

If there's a mob that it can use the animation from it's all just a copy and paste job with a different skin, is it not?


Yes i realize it's a tad more to it then that but in essence he's probably correct. And i'm almost willing to put money on that they used the code from the Mabari in DA2 for that robot dog, all they had to do is tweak it a bit and retexture it.

And making reusable code is practically law when it comes to programming nowadays because it saves so much money.

Hell i wouldn't be surprised at all if at least half of the code in ME3 comes from ME1 and ME2. Because NO developer studio sits down with a sequel and starts from scratch unless the prequels are utter failures, at which point there wouldn't be a sequel to begin with.

At least not with this much effort put in to it.

 

[Ctuchik]

Because the product they sold me isn't very good and under distance selling laws I would like my money back, as I am actually entitled to within 30 days.

Except I can't because they do not give refunds on games.

You can get a refund, at least if you bought from Origin.

http://savygamer.co.uk/2011/10/31/ea-offer-refunds-on-origin-purchases/

 

[old.Tohtori]

If there's a mob that it can use the animation from it's all just a copy and paste job with a different skin, is it not?

Yes i realize it's a tad more to it then that but in essence he's probably correct. And i'm almost willing to put money on that they used the code from the Mabari in DA2 for that robot dog, all they had to do is tweak it a bit and retexture it.

Actually he has no idea, i on the other hand do with a little over 10 years in the industry.

That one dog may be in the other games code, but then it has to be brought into ME, integrate into the ME code, the AI needs to be tweaked to handle the other games exceptions, the graphics and sound needs changing and that damn dog AI code will interfere with other code 100% quaranteed. Not to mention, it all has to go through QA, managers, designers and the lot.

I'd gladly take that bet of your moneys as i have personal experience in how much work can go into a "little" thing.

 

[Mabs]

i would be epically suprised if they offer a refund on an open and used MMO account.

buy a game, play it for 30 mins, find it crashes a lot.. yes
buy an MMO, log 300 hours on your account and go "waa waaa i dont like it.." ... whistle for it tbh

 

[Ctuchik]

If I play this I will pirate it. That's because I am tired of EA. However, I wasn't all that keen on the other mass effect games so I won't be rushing to get it.

Yeah please be the cause of SOPA/PIPA/ACTA.

 

[Raven]

What? So you don't download games, TV shows, music, films...ever? Bullshit.

Besides which, it was a fucking joke you slope headed morons.

FYI, I haven't illegally downloaded a game since half life 2, which shortly after I bought anyway. I have 200odd games legally bought on steam.

 

[Ctuchik]

And that makes it ok for you to illegaly download ME3 then?


*sigh*

And no, i don't pirate anymore. i *used* to, and then i grew up.

 

[MYstIC G]

You can get a refund, at least if you bought from Origin.

http://savygamer.co.uk/2011/10/31/ea-offer-refunds-on-origin-purchases/

You can but you'd have to read the conditions.

If you live in the European Union and you purchase a game or service, such as game points or currency, from one of our websites, you are entitled to a 14 day Cooling Off Period during which you can withdraw from your purchase. You will lose your right of withdrawal if you start downloading your software, or if you unseal or remove the shrink-wrap packaging from your physical product, or if the performance of our services has begun, before the end of the Cooling Off Period. Note that if you purchase services from us the performance of our services will begin immediately after we have sent your purchase confirmation email.

 

[Ctuchik]

Actually he has no idea, i on the other hand do with a little over 10 years in the industry.

That one dog may be in the other games code, but then it has to be brought into ME, integrate into the ME code, the AI needs to be tweaked to handle the other games exceptions, the graphics and sound needs changing and that damn dog AI code will interfere with other code 100% quaranteed. Not to mention, it all has to go through QA, managers, designers and the lot.

I'd gladly take that bet of your moneys as i have personal experience in how much work can go into a "little" thing.

They use the same unreal 3 engine so it wouldn't be that hard to shift code around..... I think..

 

[Raven]

And that makes it ok for you to illegaly download ME3 then?


*sigh*

And no, i don't pirate anymore. i *used* to, and then i grew up.

You do understand the word joke...right? I have no intention of downloading ME3.

If you are saying you don't illegally download films, music or television shows then I am afraid I don't believe you.

 

[old.Tohtori]

They use the same unreal 3 engine so it wouldn't be that hard to shift code around..... I think..

On the assumption that the code is just a copy/paste job for the dog follow AI etc, there's still the following steps;

- Design made for the dog(any and all interactions). Then approved.
- Lines written and added(if any interactions with said dog). Approvale by higher ups again.
- Sounds designed and approved.
- Aformentioned lines, sounds, individual menu elements/codex added.
- Unlocks for said dog(be it by payment or gameplay).
- Graphics to be designed and approved by leads before they are made, then approved again.
- Whole thing tested thoroughly and then approved by moneymen/publishers.
- Localisation.

From top of head, depending on developer it might be more or less

 

[Krazeh]

Because the product they sold me isn't very good and under distance selling laws I would like my money back, as I am actually entitled to within 30 days.

Except I can't because they do not give refunds on games.

Distance selling regs give you 7 working days in which you can return a product, not 30.

 

[Ctuchik]

.

If you are saying you don't illegally download films, music or television shows then I am afraid I don't believe you.

That's all up to you, but no i really don't. I don't care for movies, i don't even have a TV (not that it matters here). And i can listen to all the music i want on Youtube or Grooveshark, or i just flip on the radio.

 

[Ctuchik]

On the assumption that the code is just a copy/paste job for the dog follow AI etc, there's still the following steps;

- Design made for the dog(any and all interactions). Then approved.
- Lines written and added(if any interactions with said dog). Approvale by higher ups again.
- Sounds designed and approved.
- Aformentioned lines, sounds, individual menu elements/codex added.
- Unlocks for said dog(be it by payment or gameplay).
- Graphics to be designed and approved by leads before they are made, then approved again.
- Whole thing tested thoroughly and then approved by moneymen/publishers.
- Localisation.

From top of head, depending on developer it might be more or less

More ME3 ranting from TB, and i can't disagree with him.

Technical excuses such as those presented are not a good enough reason.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bey935uh0OM&feature=g-u-u&context=G2afff64FUAAAAAAAAAA

 

[old.Tohtori]

There's never a good enough reason for the rampant ragers

Those aren't excuses either, they are facts and i only countered the notion that it's "simple" to implement stuff. The whole DLC in itself costing, that's just cause it costs to make sh*t.

It's as simple as this;

Game laucnhes as is.
DLC is extra content.
DLC needs to be paid for as it costs to make.

End of.

Only reason this is a "outrage" is because people now know a bit more on how game industry produces stuff(yes, every game before and after does it in the very same way), yet still have no clue on it and fill in the blanks to fit their rage.

The rest of TBs rant is just speculation and contradicting, like going from 3 months dev time to 1 month, and taking in some lines of dialogue as some kind of finished product. The moment you ignore explanations from the company and grasp at straws to make it sound they're lying, you are infact a rager.

Though TB is using this to troll as much as possible to gain more subscribers and fame, as he has done for ages

 

[old.Tohtori]

I do however agree with the certificate system being ridicilous as i've been working 22 days non-stop due to just that.

 

[Ctuchik]

It's as simple as this;

Game laucnhes as is.
DLC is extra content.
DLC needs to be paid for as it costs to make.

End of.

DLC is extra content if they started on it after the game went live yes.

NOT when they start on it before the game even goes to certification.

Yes BW does claim that this is what they did, but scripts got leaked as far back as july (actually can't verify that, but i'l keep looking) from the main game that included parts of the DLC. So if that is true they could not have started on that DLC after the main game were completed. Or they sent the game to certification in june and really REALLY fucked it up, multiple times...

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's story, dialogue, scripts. That's got nothing to do with actually developing the content. Strawman argument at best. For example, on a previous project i worked on, it had some stuff written in it at pre-production, but it then(during the production), got cut off before production started on it. This time it didn't and they had time to do this content as they had a huge cert phase.

And when a game goes into cert, that IS the point where it's out of the hands of the devs and is essentially -live-. Devs -CAN'T- add anything into the game after that. The content for the DLC was made after it.

It's 3 months of pay for people to create this content and as such, it will cost money for the company, the publisher and as such, ofcourse, the end user.

There is no argument that this is anything different from any other DLC. Again, no idea on how the production of a game actually goes(it's ever changing to say the least) and those holes in knowledfge are filled with the usual rabble.

Only argument there would be is this; Could this DLC been free?

Yes, yes it could have, but it's not. It's down to individual projects(costs mainly) if a DLC is free or not and those individual +projects aren't law cases that can be used as a precidence to justify rabble on other projects.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

It really is fucking hilarious how some people think making computer games is a simple job.

None of it is simple. If you have no idea what goes into the process of making one, you just come across like a ranting angry teen. By all means criticise the end product, but to criticise the working practices of a company that you don't know, working in an industry that you don't know how it functions? Fuck off

 

[MYstIC G]

My logic for DLC would be that they're more likely to extract £15 a month over a period than say £60 in one hit because of the target audience. Most DLC must be in the business plan day 1 otherwise the lead times would be far too massive in any event.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeap, DLCs are indeed planned beforehand. It's just people who think they're entitled to it that make this an issue

 

[Ctuchik]

It really is fucking hilarious how some people think making computer games is a simple job.

None of it is simple. If you have no idea what goes into the process of making one, you just come across like a ranting angry teen. By all means criticise the end product, but to criticise the working practices of a company that you don't know, working in an industry that you don't know how it functions? Fuck off

Who here has claimed that it's simple to make a game?

If you are referring to my post about the robot dog animation it's not quite "making a game" is it?

And toht, it's not a matter of "can it be free" it's a matter of this game is the last in a serie and EA want's to milk it for all it's worth. Otherwise the day 1 DLC's for DA2 and ME2 would have been sold separately as well.

This particular DLC is also different from any other day 1 DLC they have released because it is so completely and utterly connected to the main story of mass effect. You will not get the complete story if you do not have this DLC, you just won't. And that's my guess as to why EA told BW to not give it for free. I obviously can't prove it but EA isn't exactly known for their goodwill when it comes to important games that they are confident on.

I also know that extra content are planned beforehand, but as far as i know they are very rarely *started on* until the main game has released because they want to see if it's worth it in case the game flops. This game obviously won't sell badly because it's the last in a series and people will want to know how it ends.

I'm not saying that ALL day 1 DLC's is bad. And if this one would have been something along the lines of Warden's Keep, Shale, Pinnacle Station or Zaed i probably wouldn't have bitched so much about it because that stuff isn't part of the main story, they are just extra fluff with one or two OP items added to them. So you can skip those and still enjoy the full story of the game itself. I just feel that this DLC is a really questionable way of making a profit on. Or EA was really skeptical about the previous games and figured they couldn't make enough profit on them, which i doubt while looking at EA's cancelled games list.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Who here has claimed that it's simple to make a game?

If you are referring to my post about the robot dog animation it's not quite "making a game" is it?

And toht, it's not a matter of "can it be free" it's a matter of this game is the last in a serie and EA want's to milk it for all it's worth. Otherwise the day 1 DLC's for DA2 and ME2 would have been sold separately as well.

I also know that extra content are planned beforehand, but as far as i know they are very rarely *started on* until the main game has released because they want to see if it's worth it in case the game flops. This game obviously won't sell badly because it's the last in a series and people will want to know how it ends.

You implied it, as by totalbiscuits advice, with the dog analogy. That IS making the game because most if not all parts of the game have the same effort put into it.

It's not milking either, since A: the series isn't over(according to bio) and B: since it's just like any other DLC. The other ones being free does not make this to be a mandatory DLC.

They started on this before the release because they had the time, on most game projects you -don't- have the time to do extra shit.

But the most funny thing is this; you wouldn't b*tch if it was some ammopack retexture DLC, but since it's ACTUAL content and probably an important addition to the game AS a DLC, you whine?

So, you're effectively asking for them to charge for crap because that wouldn't make you so angry.

the DLC isn't part of the main story, it's added story.

 

[Ctuchik]

Fine, you win. I'm running out of arguments here.

I'm gonna go eat ice cream and pout now and it's YOUR fault!

 

[Scouse]

It's EA. They're cynical money grabbing bastards. Always have been.

The Day 1 DLC is there to make people feel like they're missing out on something if they don't pay for it. I.E.: They know that people are going to buy the game in droves - they just want that already-paid-up audience to feel a little bit dissatisfied because that means they'll spend a little more wonga.

Companies used to release games with the ethos that they wanted the gamer to enjoy every second of it. EA knows that if they make people feel like they're missing out on something they can make more cash.

Is it an emotional argument? Yes. But then, I play games because of the way they make me feel... and EA make me feel like they're cynical money-grabbing cunts.

Which they are.

 

[Ctuchik]

the DLC isn't part of the main story, it's added story.

Just as an added question.

You do know what that DLC contains right?

Yes it's adding a story but it's still very much connected to the MAIN story, and answers some questions that you wouldn't find out if you didn't have it.

And yes i'm asking them to charge me for crap DLC's because those i don't feel i NEED to get.

/edit: But it's apparently all Jennifer Hepler's fault any way...

God i can't believe the people that's blaming her for everything bad that's been happening in BW's games lately... >.<

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah, the blamegame is ridicilous when one person can't really control it all. Especially since it's EA.

But yeah i know about the DLC and the content, which is why it puzzles me. It's an extra story that is indeed a big part of the lore, but it's still extra. As such, i'd think players would be pleased to pay for good content, not just fluff.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Mass Effect - has a mission involving story as DLC, everyone bitches and moans.

Deus Ex - has a mission involving story as DLC, everyone praises it for being really good and extending the length of the game.



People are prepared to moan about this type of stuff so much more if it comes from a "big producer," as it becomes incredibly easy to just say "money grabbing." Hilarious double standards.

 

[Mabs]

a slight tangent, but somewhat relevant

"X game is getting an expansion pack".cool, heres 15-20 quid, for my extra 20 hours of game. no prob

"Y game is getting some DLC". ZOMG ! RIP OFF ! NOT PAYING FOR THAT! ITS ONLY 5 HOURS LONG, AND ONLY 5 QUID ! WASTE OF TIME.. x4

end result = the same
but you get dlc smaller and faster than expansion discs

i REALLY dont get the problem with it, which appears to mostly be image related