DToC - Anybody using

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Tilda

Guest
Here's the announcement many of you have been looking for - the official word on the application known as DTOC.

The fan-created utility called "Dark Tool of Camelot" directly interacts with our client, and intercepts our data stream. As such, it is a violation of our rules of conduct, one of which states: "Any disassembly or modification of any of the Game's executable code, databases and/or files. Nor may you interfere with or attempt to decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Dark Age of Camelot. Doing this will result in immediate termination of the Account and may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability.

This is also the stance GOA take on DTOC.
Basically your in big trouble if you get caught.

Tilda
 
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Tilda

Guest
i belive what they are talking about is the bit where it could effectivley be used for macroing, theres a bit in the FAQ section of the site that shows a letter from Mythic and that particular macroing bit has been removed.
Apart from the bit that has been removed it seems perfectly legal.

Tilda
 
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-Nxs-

Guest
If you read the friday news of last week it explains that using 3rd party programs is against the CoC

Specificaly DToC adds new commands to the game, which is definetly not allowed by GOA.

I've seen the tool and what it can do, yes it looks impressive but im affraid GOA will not condone its use, you can check for sure by asking on Rightnow.
 
J

Jiggs

Guest
autochat rocks

personally i would like to hear some comment from goa/rightnow tho because its pretty harmless stuff it does...
 
G

Goryk

Guest
I have to drool at some of the macro options available though. Essentailly, it's possible to do autoequipping of instuments as a minstrel, and thats probably more than enough temptation for most minstrels/bards out there :) I cans ee how some things you could do could give you an advantage over other people though. They just need to hire the creator and put everything in the program into the official release really :)
 
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Tilda

Guest
well ive sent a rightnow asking for clarifications from GOA as it seems Mythic tolerate it to some extent in the US.

ill post back when/if i get a reply.

Tilda
 
A

Arnor

Guest
using&loving!



this dude shouldve been with nasa on the space program ;)
 
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-Nxs-

Guest
By using the macro feature it would be possible for say a Champ in hib to.

Target nearest enemy/mob, cast all debuffs, cast DD, engage in melee and use a style.

All with one click of the mouse.

If thats not an unfair advantage, then what is ?
 
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amazingsteve

Guest
Hibernia has been using this tool for a while, but we didn´t know whether it was legal or not, GoA once replied to a RightNow that they followed Mythics statement, and thus condoning it, and they once replied that they didn´t allow it, so one of Hibernia´s E&Es has asked it to GoA, which in the end led to this statement, which can be found in the Friday news of 17th January.

Using third party tools allowing you to alter the game or alter the way the game should be played is strictly forbidden. If you want to play DAOC legally, just play the game as it was designed. If you don't, do not be surprised to see your account terminated some day. Remember, YOU are responsible for your account and the only thing you need to play DAOC, is the client of Dark Age of Camelot, nothing else…
 
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StormriderX

Guest
to be honest the legal non macro features should be a integral part of the game. Mythic should hire the creator.
 
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old.Belorfyn

Guest
Hot Keys

Again, hot keys basically let you assign any of the above extended commands to a single key, key combination, or even a mouse button. Here's a taste:

]hotkey z key F9 \ key g
From now on, whenever you press the "z" key, it'd press F9 to target the nearest object on the ground, and then press the "g" key which would pick it up. Here's a full list of the keys you can assign commands to:
Click to expand...

This bit disturbs me a bit, they're macros.
One could (as someone already pointed out), cast all insta spells at once. Not that it would be slow if you just used numbers to cast them but slower anyway. Smallest difference can be the important one in fights.

Whenever something like this is in question of whether it's allowed or not, people say that "oh well, it should had been in game from the start", be it windowed mode or macros.
Someone might say radars should be allowed because you can't always see where an archer is if he shoots at you since you don't always get target.
In my opinion, even if they are features that should be built-in in the game, they shouldn't be used if they're not allowed.
All the more if it's something that gives advantage like those macros.
 
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old.Lianuchta

Guest
Things like seeing your dps, defense ratings or xp gained don't hurt anyone though tbh. Avoiding using it, but used it for a bit in between Mythic saying it was fine and GOA saying it wasn't.

If you read the readme file and FAQ on the site, he even got some code from Mythic to help him optimise his code...
 
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old.Toirdhealbhach

Guest
Out of curiosity, what's the Politically Correct stance towards "legal" macroing devices, such as programmable gamepad thingies? They have exactly as much expressive power as those "advanced" DToC macros. Is the thin line between moral and immoral in actuality a 2-feet USB cord?
 
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old.Krusha

Guest
The Nostromo gamepad is legal , was stated in a grab bag a while back.. as it isnt a "3rd party program" but a device (using mythics words here ;)) with it you can do the same macroing but .. well.... :rolleyes:
 
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Xandax

Guest
Originally posted by old.Belorfyn


This bit disturbs me a bit, they're macros.
One could (as someone already pointed out), cast all insta spells at once. Not that it would be slow if you just used numbers to cast them but slower anyway. Smallest difference can be the important one in fights.

Whenever something like this is in question of whether it's allowed or not, people say that "oh well, it should had been in game from the start", be it windowed mode or macros.
Someone might say radars should be allowed because you can't always see where an archer is if he shoots at you since you don't always get target.
In my opinion, even if they are features that should be built-in in the game, they shouldn't be used if they're not allowed.
All the more if it's something that gives advantage like those macros.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, but I'm affraid that the ever "valid excuse": :rolleyes: "Everybody does it." (sheez - since when has this been an excuse for anything)
will proberly take over quite a few people from now on, and we will most likely see this program spread.
 
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-Nxs-

Guest
Originally posted by old.Lianuchta
If you read the readme file and FAQ on the site, he even got some code from Mythic to help him optimise his code...
Click to expand...

Yes did read this part, but GOA run Daoc in europe, not Mythic and GOA have already said the use of 3rd party tools is not allowed.
 
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old.LandShark

Guest
Used it for a few days and loved it for no other reason than I had autoequipping instruments. Then it was brought to my attention that GOA said it was against COC, so I removed it. Even though I really, really fail to see how it could be detected from server-side. Short of deciding that a certain speed of key-pressing is not humanly possible, or something...
*shrug*
Extremely annoying to have GOA ban something that is 100% supported by Mythic. :rolleyes:
First they fix the cloak bug, then they ban a Mythic-supported program... what next :p
 
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-Nxs-

Guest
The only way this is detectable by GOA is if you echo the command results to group/say/guild chat.

The program acts as a relay for game traffic, Client <> DToC <> GOA Servers

I firmly believe that the stat gathering information is benefitial, usefull and could NOT possibly be used to gain an unfair advantage, however the macro side of the tool could be used for this purpose.
 
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Teh Fonz!!1

Guest
I wrote a a little program for work that allows you to macro tasks for programs that we write. It just simulates windows commands, mouse movement, mouse clicks, key strokes etc..

With DAoX I suppose it could be used to make crafting very, very easy. I've never tried it, I hate crafting with a passion but it would be completely undetectable and it took me about 5 minutes to write.

If someone like me, who has no knowledge of computer game programming can do this, I imagine there are others that have done the same and are using things like this every day.
 
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Aeternus

Guest
If GOA says its wrong, then its wrong. Saying its okay cause Mythic helped the guy remove some abusive parts of the program... well thats like justifying a crime in China by saying its alright in France or something... you get my point, you have to follow the standards setup in your enviourment how unfair they might see... or just break the rules and take the consequences when faced with them.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by old.Krusha
The Nostromo gamepad is legal , was stated in a grab bag a while back.. as it isnt a "3rd party program" but a device (using mythics words here ;)) with it you can do the same macroing but .. well.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

using the pad is legal

macroing is not :)
 
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-Nxs-

Guest
Originally posted by Teh Fonz!!1
I wrote a a little program for work that allows you to macro tasks for programs that we write. It just simulates windows commands, mouse movement, mouse clicks, key strokes etc..

With DAoX I suppose it could be used to make crafting very, very easy. I've never tried it, I hate crafting with a passion but it would be completely undetectable and it took me about 5 minutes to write.
Click to expand...

There is various shareware out that already do this. However using one would give you a static crafting rate. Eg starting to craft the same item every 30 seconds, and repetidly trying to craft the same item when you run out of materials.

Im sure this could easily be picked up by the logs GOA pride themselves on, yes its easy to "Autocraft" but its also as easy to be detected.
 
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mcirvine

Guest
I dont use DToC but i looked into it in what it can do, and wish we could have some of the features. Like the features for your stats, how many times you got killed by player x, how many times u killed player y and highest RP's gained from...

those things look nice for putting on a personal webspace, of course you could run chatlog all the time and parse that file, but hell i'm not gonna write programs in my spare time i wanna play games than ;)
 
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Teh Fonz!!1

Guest
How can these logs find out if you are using a macro mouse click if all they get are the same messages that you get using the mouse?

These programs send the same instructions to windows as your mouse does, GOA logs these instructions your computer sends to their server.
 
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Aravis

Guest
Originally posted by Teh Fonz!!1
How can these logs find out if you are using a macro mouse click if all they get are the same messages that you get using the mouse?

These programs send the same instructions to windows as your mouse does, GOA logs these instructions your computer sends to their server.
Click to expand...

Because however hard you tried there is absolutely no way you could every 30 seconds (for example), without failure, press the same key for 2 hours. It will be the fact that there is no inconsistency between the times the key/mouse press occur at that would give you away...
 
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old.Krusha

Guest
or they log on one of those diamond thingies (ie Mythic rep.) and try to talk to you :)
 
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Teh Fonz!!1

Guest
Simple, set a hundred different mouse clicks, each one averaging a click between 1 minute 58 seconds and 2 minutes 30 seconds.

Each click would be different and it's very easily done.

I suppose it's possible to set an alarm using a winamp plugin to alert you to when someone talks directly to you using a /send. That's a little bit more complicated for my liking though.

The best idea would be for everyone to just ignore crafting and not do it. Mythic would then realise it's boring and implement new stuff to make it fun.
 
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rynnor

Guest
Originally posted by Aravis


Because however hard you tried there is absolutely no way you could every 30 seconds (for example), without failure, press the same key for 2 hours. It will be the fact that there is no inconsistency between the times the key/mouse press occur at that would give you away...
Click to expand...

I very much doubt that even using a macro the spacing would be perfect due to server lag/ connection difficulties/ pc processing etc. etc.

Plus as Teh fonz mentions it is incredibly easy to add in a random delay and even make it wander around and do different actions on a random basis making it unspottable.

The thing I dont understand is why is Hardware based Macroing legal and software based Macroing illegal when both have the same in-game effect??

Not that im suggesting some hypocrisy on GOA's part :)
 
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