[Dragongfang] "balanced, unbalanced, nerf, don't nerf" - discuss!

[Nonnier]

main problem isn't Df, its the amount of em.

today in emain at amg for me:

Your were killed by rambo

you get rezzed

you get killed by a rambo pet

you get rezzed

you get killed by a scout

you get rezzed

you use purge/MCl/PP and get out of there and go DC, getting emoted by rambo on the way.

head back to amg cause DC is boring

kill 2 necros

get killed by daimx

you get rezzed

you get killed by a infil

you get rezzed

you get killed by daimx

you get rezzed

you get killed by daimx

you get rezzed

you get killed by daimx infil friend (can't remember name)

you get rezzed

you get killed

i give in a play icewind dale

and all this time about 3 fg of mids was running about, and i only lose res sick once (and that was with purge ffs ), the mids must have gotten sick of rezzing me

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Just can't seem to get enough of these Dragonfang discussion ...
quoting from a same lame thread fron VN boards

-----------
"last night i died twice to same Dfanged infi... my purge was down - i died.

In this case, Dfang was the famous 'I win' button - as we both were skilled, perfectly equipped and buffed to teeth. It should be removed. "
------------

"Aha. So you lost because your purge was down. If it wouldn't have been down, you would have won, because except for the stun, the thrust styles are inferior.

But, if DF is removed, that's equal to you never having purge down. Ergo, winning everytime. Nice plan "

Enough said, thrust IS df nothing else.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
Just can't seem to get enough of these Dragonfang discussion ...
quoting from a same lame thread fron VN boards

-----------
"last night i died twice to same Dfanged infi... my purge was down - i died.

In this case, Dfang was the famous 'I win' button - as we both were skilled, perfectly equipped and buffed to teeth. It should be removed. "
------------

"Aha. So you lost because your purge was down. If it wouldn't have been down, you would have won, because except for the stun, the thrust styles are inferior.

But, if DF is removed, that's equal to you never having purge down. Ergo, winning everytime. Nice plan "

Enough said, thrust IS df nothing else.

Yes a class like infil using the dmg (thrust) midleather are resistant to should never win against an sb if hes not some epic gimp, same rr and buffs ofc.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
"Aha. So you lost because your purge was down. If it wouldn't have been down, you would have won, because except for the stun, the thrust styles are inferior.

But, if DF is removed, that's equal to you never having purge down. Ergo, winning everytime. Nice plan "

Enough said, thrust IS df nothing else.

Purge is not an sb only ra, and if i get dragonfanged when i purge i dont only remove the stune but also the str/con debuff so higher wpnskill and more dmg.

But maybe you thrust infils dont notice it cause you dont get hurt from the debuff like an slash user do.......


Enough said, thrust infil can kill an thrust resistant sb cause of a "I win bottum" nothing else.

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
Once he used purge you would lose, DF or not. He is no longer subject to strcon debuffs etc whereas you are. Assuning he is fully buffed, you probably took off 20 - 25% of his hps, so you would lose even if DF didn't land.

If you had purge too I guess you would have won as you can purge his DF and the poisons.

If he didn't purge you would have won.

Purge cost you that fight.

Anyway, as I keep saying, sure give SBs access to an evade stun style at more accessible levels. I'd be happy to see a stun style in LA at 21 spec say. Happy with that idea??

are you stupid or just pretending very well?!
even if he had not purged I'd still have ~15% hp left when stun wore off, it's not bloody fair to have to rely on a f****n RA to counter a f*****n combatstyle, a style that isn't even remotely hard for an inf to land!

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
Read the thread...Vodkafairy suggested infs have 1800hp...I showed I don't.

Get full SC and you will have more hps like Emma.

you're the one who needs to read it seems, with full SC my kobold SB has about the same hp as your saracen inf, so quit the moaning about us having superior hp already

 

[VodkaFairy]

Well my NS with only 40 base con has 1770 hp so seriously, don't say an inf has less..

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
Just can't seem to get enough of these Dragonfang discussion ...
quoting from a same lame thread fron VN boards

-----------
"last night i died twice to same Dfanged infi... my purge was down - i died.

In this case, Dfang was the famous 'I win' button - as we both were skilled, perfectly equipped and buffed to teeth. It should be removed. "
------------

"Aha. So you lost because your purge was down. If it wouldn't have been down, you would have won, because except for the stun, the thrust styles are inferior.

But, if DF is removed, that's equal to you never having purge down. Ergo, winning everytime. Nice plan "

Enough said, thrust IS df nothing else.

Well DF + 2.5 specpoints is too strong, it's either DF or 2.5x spec imo... Speccing 50 thrust and getting a good move in return, ok, but then speccing another line to 50 for dual shadows or speccing cs to 50 for insane style damage just isn't fair.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Well DF + 2.5 specpoints is too strong, it's either DF or 2.5x spec imo...

What she said, sure df is a lvl 50 style but way to easy to get with 2.5spec points.

So make it 6sec stun and give them 2.2 spec points like the rest of the assasins

 

[eynar]

Originally posted by Rambo
omg think the female Rambo came out of me and typed this... nerf

So you're saying there's a male Rambo too???

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

fyi we are discussing dragonfang here, not the infiltrator class itself.

50 spec for a style that is 99.9% purged and no usefull anytime styles until that is changed it's good with 2.5X points.

From my experience so far, 50CS outdamage 50DW in every possible way only advantage of 50DW imo is more offhand swings, slightly more offhand damage .. and less endurance usage if you get front positional fights.

Give sbs and infiltrators USEFULL RA's and i'll gladly go 2.2spec points AND 6 sec DF stun. Until we get usefull ras and anytime styles in thrust line, nothing is in anyway overpowred with DF.

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
Give sbs and infiltrators USEFULL RA's and i'll gladly go 2.2spec points AND 6 sec DF stun. Until we get usefull ras and anytime styles in thrust line, nothing is in anyway overpowred with DF.

err are you like drunk? infs have vanish, are you actually calling that a bad RA?

Nothing is overpowered with DF ... hmm yeah right

 

[uma_thurman]

Originally posted by Lanfaer
are you stupid or just pretending very well?!
even if he had not purged I'd still have ~15% hp left when stun wore off, it's not bloody fair to have to rely on a f****n RA to counter a f*****n combatstyle, a style that isn't even remotely hard for an inf to land!

I'll quote you:

"For instance: at a milegate in emain I backstabbed an inf ~300+ then landed another blow for ~150+, "

So you got BS2 off. If he doesn't purge and has no buffs you should win unless you're a shit gimped player. I've been BS2ed before by SBs and lost, so perhaps we're missing some information you have neglected to tell us.

To knock off 85% of an sbs hit points in 9 secs means he was buffed and so you were destined to lose anyway. If you were buffed too I just don't believe that you lost unless you're total pants.

Instead of whining, why don't you provide some evidence?

As I keep saying, sure give SBs some counter like DF to give them a fighting chance.

Perhaps instead of questioning someone's intelligence you might wanna look closer to home first. Stop ranting like a rabid dog.

 

[uma_thurman]

Originally posted by Lanfaer
you're the one who needs to read it seems, with full SC my kobold SB has about the same hp as your saracen inf, so quit the moaning about us having superior hp already

You're the one moaning because some infil owned you with dragonfang. Wipe off the tears and accept that it will happen sometimes.

All you do is rant without evidence. I took the trouble to provide a screeny showing my hps. Now YOU do the same. PUT UP or SHUT UP.

I bet your "about the same hp" is 100 more

I'll be honest, the name Grayh does not strike fear into the hearts of Albs, so I guess you're gimped somehow

 

[Farnis]

Showing evidence is pointless - the sb TL and the hundreds of SBs that have sent in logs to Mythic have alrteady proved this.

You dont believe DF is overpowered - good for you, you are standing up for your class - the rest of us stealthers have a different opinion. Pound for pound DF+2.5 spec points is an unstoppable combo...especially as you can Hamstring off the back of it which as everyone knows has got a pretty high growth rate.

 

[bigchief]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
I'll be honest, the name Grayh does not strike fear into the hearts of Albs, so I guess you're gimped somehow

if you see grayh kill someone, 9/10 it will be at amg with 10 friends ~~

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
I'll quote you:

"For instance: at a milegate in emain I backstabbed an inf ~300+ then landed another blow for ~150+, "

So you got BS2 off. If he doesn't purge and has no buffs you should win unless you're a shit gimped player. I've been BS2ed before by SBs and lost, so perhaps we're missing some information you have neglected to tell us.

To knock off 85% of an sbs hit points in 9 secs means he was buffed and so you were destined to lose anyway. If you were buffed too I just don't believe that you lost unless you're total pants.

Instead of whining, why don't you provide some evidence?

As I keep saying, sure give SBs some counter like DF to give them a fighting chance.

Perhaps instead of questioning someone's intelligence you might wanna look closer to home first. Stop ranting like a rabid dog.

I caught the little event on film, so I'll show you how I got beaten to a pulp only because of dragonfang, and I didn't say he knocked of 85% in those 9secs, was the second hit that landed that stunned me. So 1 hit + df = ~85% hp gone, really fair imo.

He might have beaten me anyhow, but the fact that I got squashed like a bug without the inf even having to use an "assassin"-opening ticks me off.

We don't need anything to counter DF, just remove the evade>stun from it and everyone will be fine. Make it second in a chain and it's fair that you can still have the 9sec stun, it is after all a L50 style (which you don't have to trade anything away to get, but that's another matter)

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by uma_thurman
I'll be honest, the name Grayh does not strike fear into the hearts of Albs, so I guess you're gimped somehow

Of course it doesn't strike fear into their hearts, I'm a cuddly little kobold that can't even kill a torc

 

[Astraad]

Didn't take long for personal insults to be used i guess..... I've played alongside Grayh and tbh he's one of the best SB's i have pld with. No alb names strike fear into my heart simply coz this is a game... i dunno, maybe im remiss on something here.

DF is and always has been overpowered, simple really. inf lands it and wins the fight full stop. Doesnt matter if u get PA off or BS2, DF will win an inf the fight, and they can get it off far too easily.

 

[corranhorn1]

Like to see almost everyone still overlooks it merely overpowered on infiltrator. On a merc in RvR you rarely get to use it so would you say that it chaining of evade on them overpowered?

sure make it side positional = no good to inf, useful for merc

make it rear postional = no real use to inf very useful for merc (i hate running after them pesky healers)

make it second in a chain = useful to inf as only 1 extra move and they evade enough, crap for merc as hard enough getting a chance to use it as is without a block/parry

The style is depended on by more then 1 class. to nerf a line due to 1 class will totally make another class useless to spec in that line. with seen this before, rather then nerf the line the best bet is to give little boost to sb's as it will make them more lvl with a inf/ns without knocking out the balance of another class.


could go on but too many long posts in thread as is

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by corranhorn1
The style is depended on by more then 1 class. to nerf a line due to 1 class will totally make another class useless to spec in that line.

All I have to say is LA......

 

[corranhorn1]

Originally posted by Damon_D
All I have to say is LA......

precisely
was overpowered on both classes but they needed to adjust each as a seperate thing as more overpowered in hands of one class compared to the other

but too do such a thing takes too much thought for mythic

but still.. worked out all the better for me.. i die faster to savages then did pre la nerf zerkers so quicker ride back to SI

 

[Silenzio]

is ok, only decent style in an entire weapon spec and is lvl 50

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by Lanfaer
err are you like drunk? infs have vanish, are you actually calling that a bad RA?

Nothing is overpowered with DF ... hmm yeah right

Yes I do, 10 points for an instant stealth RA with lot of target bugs. Sb's at least have a Haste active RA worth looking into.

And no because DF requries 50 Thrust and 50 thrust to get the *only* style that i can say is good in thrust line, sacrifice no usefull anytime style, sacrifice bad overall damage (talking 100-120~ a hit) sacrifice all things every other line but thrust gets .. for a 9sec stun so you can actually deal some damage during the stun? All this for a style more often purged then usefull.

My answer is: No it's not overpowered, rr5+ and Diamond Back, AP3 and WA now we talknig overpowered stuffs.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
Yes I do, 10 points for an instant stealth RA with lot of target bugs. Sb's at least have a Haste active RA worth looking into.

And no because DF requries 50 Thrust and 50 thrust to get the *only* style that i can say is good in thrust line, sacrifice no usefull anytime style, sacrifice bad overall damage (talking 100-120~ a hit) sacrifice all things every other line but thrust gets .. for a 9sec stun so you can actually deal some damage during the stun? All this for a style more often purged then usefull.

My answer is: No it's not overpowered, rr5+ and Diamond Back, AP3 and WA now we talknig overpowered stuffs.

Get rid of those tooth picks and get some real weapons ffs..

100 - 120 damage a style.. you on drugs or something

 

[umilard]

Accually, i would say thrust have 2 good styles.. pierce is good aswell, behindstyle with low endcost and kinda high damage..

If i had a thrustinf i would probably do the PAchain and then one pierce, then move on to df backed up with garrote(that the anytimer right?), then keep on doing df with achiless heal / garotte backup until you evade then do df, then do whatever you usually do after df (hamstring, hamstring, hamstring, rest of hamstringchain?)

 

[Crashtje]

same thing happened with left axe, peeps defended it etc, so they nerfed the whole line, i dont think thrust line needs nerfing , Infiltrators need to lose the 2.5spec points

 

[witte-]

Originally posted by Crashtje
same thing happened with left axe, peeps defended it etc, so they nerfed the whole line, i dont think thrust line needs nerfing , Infiltrators need to lose the 2.5spec points

No we don't need to lose the spec points , just make dragonfang 6sec.

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Get rid of those tooth picks and get some real weapons ffs..

100 - 120 damage a style.. you on drugs or something

Using a guarded rapier, fully buffed from a mota 4 buffbot. 100% quality and with cap + thrust and fully sced, 100-120 damage without crit is perfectly normal as a thruster using their gimped style.

Edit: This style being Sting the only anytime style in the thrust line with defence penality and stuffs. Using Tranqulizer -> Wyvernfang a lucky hit i do over 60 damage with tranqulizer.

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by Crashtje
Infiltrators need to lose the 2.5spec points

If they do there is no way to justify the fact NSs get DDs and SBs get extra HP + 2H, age old arguement i know but infils have no particular special skill that sets them apart, im not talking about a weapon spec line im talking about an ABILITY.

Dragonfang is not an ability, it is a style in a speccable line.