Don't you fucking dare !!!

[tris-]

it just turns you into a worthless waster

im not sure what your basing this on. i know a couple of pot smokers who are currently studying PhDs. i would be of my oppinion they are not worthless or wasters.

 

[mank!]

and you base that on what exactly?

personal experience based on people i know, the vast majority of them have pissed everything away and sit around at home in their own filth.

 

[`mongoose]

Then perhaps you don't know many people who work in it.

Hardly a governmental fault that tho

Everyone has forgotten the way nurses got boned under thatcher too?

The problem that the NHS has is accountability and funding. The NHS is intrinsically in-efficient due to it's conception. Changing the government won't help because the people who run it (badly imo) are still going to be there. Most ministers have very little input into the running of the organisation.

My mother and both sisters are/were nurses and I can tell you from their experience the government has had little to do with why they want to leave the service/ have left the service. Bad manangement, sloppy procedures poor planning and phenomenal pressure vs very low financial reward all combine to give us a shortage of home grown nurses. It's true that most nurses could afford to work 2-4 days a week and earn more by going agency and they'd be working on the same wards with the same people. It's ludicrous but it's in a large way due to the way staff are managed.

It's not all doom and gloom though, recently my son was in Birmingham Children's Hospital and that place is fantastic. Everything is geared towards patient and relative's comfort from start to finish and all on the NHS, when you visit there and have that sort of care you see just how lucky we are to have any form of free health care and why we should be fighting to stop any party fucking with it.

I've come to believe that Schools, Support networks (like the nhs, police etc) should be quangos who take strategy from all party steering groups. These strategies should be long term and subject to 4-5 year reviews. All 3 parties should have input and they should be removed from any form of direct political control. The strategy should be informed by Doctors and Nurse steering groups.

At the moment there are too many knee-jerk reactions from politicians which hinder the professional's trying to run these things. I think the same is true of almost any governement. Ministers should not be able to force health trusts to change decisions because they're unpopular with the public.

Anyway - I think this tax is daft too. It is a stealth tax, it's classic 'new tory' cos they sure as shit ain't labour any more. It's another mad initiative to add to other mad initiatives. I understand, however, that something has to be done but I think that if you're trying to get kids back on track at 14-16 you've lost them pretty much. Again I've seen the success ratios on rehabillitating kids that age once they've gone. You're looking at 10% if that.

Having said all that - how would you propose addressing binge drinking and the problems it brings around? I'm fucked if I know how you could stop it or at least change opinions and perceptions on over-drinking.

M

 

[throdgrain]

1. This government would tax you for anything, and tell you its for your own good. It is only a matter of time before they tell us of a standard number of brushes when cleaning our teeth, then have inspectors standing behind everybody in the bathroom at bedtime to ensure it is done properly. If it isnt, there will obviously be a spot fine. This will be a good way to employ all the countless immigrants they allow into the country. The immigrants will obviously be exempt from this rule on religeous grounds.


2. Smoking too much dope does make you into a lazy self-obsessed fuckwit.

 

[DaGaffer]

...I understand, however, that something has to be done but ...

Y'see that's where you're wrong. Nothing needs to be done. The British have been 'binge drinking' for centuries; (in fact by Victorian standards we're lightweights) I certainly can look back to when I was 16-24 and me, and just about everyone I knew back then, would have been classed as a binge drinker. But guess what? Most people grow out of it. And if there are 'casualties' of binge drinking, so what? If it wasn't booze it would be something else; look at countries where booze tax is sky-high, like Norway and Sweden; there are still plenty of people with drinking problems. All this would do is penalise the casual drinker (big surprise) and create a black market.

 

[tris-]

personal experience based on people i know, the vast majority of them have pissed everything away and sit around at home in their own filth.

you sure they aint on heroin?

and throd, where are you getting these facts from?

 

[DaGaffer]

...I understand, however, that something has to be done but ...

Y'see that's where you're wrong. Nothing needs to be done. The British have been 'binge drinking' for centuries; (in fact by Victorian standards we're lightweights) I certainly can look back to when I was 16-24 and me, and just about everyone I knew back then, would have been classed as a binge drinker. But guess what? Most people grow out of it. And if there are 'casualties' of binge drinking, so what? If it wasn't booze it would be something else; look at countries where booze tax is sky-high, like Norway and Sweden; there are still plenty of people with drinking problems. All this would do is penalise the casual drinker (big surprise) and create a black market.

 

[throdgrain]

Y'see that's where you're wrong. Nothing needs to be done. The British have been 'binge drinking' for centuries; (in fact by Victorian standards we're lightweights) I certainly can look back to when I was 16-24 and me, and just about everyone I knew back then, would have been classed as a binge drinker.

Precisely. Typical Nu-Lab nazis think they know whats best for every one of us, and suprise suprise they get loads of money into the bargain.

and throd, where are you getting these facts from?

Tris I really do know what Im on about. Im not about to recount stuff here necessarily, but come ask me in IRC if you like Im obviously not saying every dope smoker is a lazy self obsessed fuckwit, its just a matter of degrees
ie the longer you've been smoking, the more of a fuckwit you generally become

 

[Damini]

Right, so because Thatcher made a screw up before, that makes Labour angelic for repeating the same mistakes? There is a storm brewing with the NHS crisis, and you'd be blind not to see it.

I still can't fathom how people are so jaded that they refuse to believe that anything can be better than this government. 601,000 violent deaths in Iraq, and a country falling rapidly into civil war. SIX HUNDRED AND ONE THOUSAND. Visualise the twin towers falling, then imagine it happening 218 more times, if you are finding it hard to picture how many lives that is. Afghanistan descending back into open fighting and extremism. No end to either "peace" in sight. Unemployment rates the fastest rising in the whole of Europe (and that's ignoring the statistically friendly over-flow parking of people off work with disability allowance - 5.9 million people are off work and on benefits for a multitude of different reasons). Nearly 80% of all graduate nurses face unemployment. Taxation meaning that year after year, people are actually worse off, with less final take home, than the year before. Immigration so out of control that human slavery is flourishing in this country. Muslim extremism rampant, to the extent that America percieves it's greatest threat of terrorist attack comes not from Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but from the UK. Human rights being rapidly corroded. A level of media control so high in the country that ITV have been banned from interviewing front line soldiers after a series of negative reports about the poor treatment of injured soldiers. The BBC cowed by the Hutton report into becoming glorified hand puppets. Dizzying levels of public debt, resting on a landmine of interest rates. People buying into honours, a party that effectively bankrupted itself and then broke legislation IT DEMANDED after exposing the Tory process, and hid all "loans" from sight.

I could carry on. This government is shit. It is corrupt, it is self serving, and it is so bloated with lies and misinformation that it's belly button is protruding.

 

[Jupitus]

I'm gonna form the FreddysHouse political party.

Naturally, I'll be leader.

Throddy - you are cordially invited to be my deputy, in the style of Two-Jags

Trem - Minister for Food - that'll give them all something to think about

Damini - Minister for everything else just 'cos you rock (and I couldn't be assed to put others in - please feel free to add your own nominations)

 

[throdgrain]

I'm gonna form the FreddysHouse political party.


Throddy - you are cordially invited to be my deputy, in the style of Two-Jags

Are you trying to say Im a fat lazy bastard ???




Oh I see...

 

[tris-]

wij for minister of education

 

[Sharma]

That'll be there day Goatse enters the national curriculum.

 

[Skyler]

Right, so because Thatcher made a screw up before, that makes Labour angelic for repeating the same mistakes? There is a storm brewing with the NHS crisis, and you'd be blind not to see it.

I still can't fathom how people are so jaded that they refuse to believe that anything can be better than this government. 601,000 violent deaths in Iraq, and a country falling rapidly into civil war. SIX HUNDRED AND ONE THOUSAND. Visualise the twin towers falling, then imagine it happening 218 more times, if you are finding it hard to picture how many lives that is. Afghanistan descending back into open fighting and extremism. No end to either "peace" in sight. Unemployment rates the fastest rising in the whole of Europe (and that's ignoring the statistically friendly over-flow parking of people off work with disability allowance - 5.9 million people are off work and on benefits for a multitude of different reasons). Nearly 80% of all graduate nurses face unemployment. Taxation meaning that year after year, people are actually worse off, with less final take home, than the year before. Immigration so out of control that human slavery is flourishing in this country. Muslim extremism rampant, to the extent that America percieves it's greatest threat of terrorist attack comes not from Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but from the UK. Human rights being rapidly corroded. A level of media control so high in the country that ITV have been banned from interviewing front line soldiers after a series of negative reports about the poor treatment of injured soldiers. The BBC cowed by the Hutton report into becoming glorified hand puppets. Dizzying levels of public debt, resting on a landmine of interest rates. People buying into honours, a party that effectively bankrupted itself and then broke legislation IT DEMANDED after exposing the Tory process, and hid all "loans" from sight.

I could carry on. This government is shit. It is corrupt, it is self serving, and it is so bloated with lies and misinformation that it's belly button is protruding.

/agree

 

[TWS]

Right, so because Thatcher made a screw up before, that makes Labour angelic for repeating the same mistakes? There is a storm brewing with the NHS crisis, and you'd be blind not to see it.

I still can't fathom how people are so jaded that they refuse to believe that anything can be better than this government. 601,000 violent deaths in Iraq, and a country falling rapidly into civil war. SIX HUNDRED AND ONE THOUSAND. Visualise the twin towers falling, then imagine it happening 218 more times, if you are finding it hard to picture how many lives that is. Afghanistan descending back into open fighting and extremism. No end to either "peace" in sight. Unemployment rates the fastest rising in the whole of Europe (and that's ignoring the statistically friendly over-flow parking of people off work with disability allowance - 5.9 million people are off work and on benefits for a multitude of different reasons). Nearly 80% of all graduate nurses face unemployment. Taxation meaning that year after year, people are actually worse off, with less final take home, than the year before. Immigration so out of control that human slavery is flourishing in this country. Muslim extremism rampant, to the extent that America percieves it's greatest threat of terrorist attack comes not from Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but from the UK. Human rights being rapidly corroded. A level of media control so high in the country that ITV have been banned from interviewing front line soldiers after a series of negative reports about the poor treatment of injured soldiers. The BBC cowed by the Hutton report into becoming glorified hand puppets. Dizzying levels of public debt, resting on a landmine of interest rates. People buying into honours, a party that effectively bankrupted itself and then broke legislation IT DEMANDED after exposing the Tory process, and hid all "loans" from sight.

I could carry on. This government is shit. It is corrupt, it is self serving, and it is so bloated with lies and misinformation that it's belly button is protruding.

/agree too
I am ashamed that I voted for Tony the first time, and even told my mother that he was going to be 'a great prime minister'...
how fucking wrong can you be?!

 

[`mongoose]

Right, so because Thatcher made a screw up before, that makes Labour angelic for repeating the same mistakes? There is a storm brewing with the NHS crisis, and you'd be blind not to see it.

Actually other than the thatcher comment I agreed with you on the state of the NHS. There's very little in there supportive of any political party. That's the problem imo - the NHS needs to be a service removed from politics entirely.

I still can't fathom how people are so jaded that they refuse to believe that anything can be better than this government. 601,000 violent deaths in Iraq, and a country falling rapidly into civil war. SIX HUNDRED AND ONE THOUSAND.

Agreed, again I didn't exactly support either this government or it's policies in iraq.

Visualise the twin towers falling, then imagine it happening 218 more times, if you are finding it hard to picture how many lives that is. Afghanistan descending back into open fighting and extremism.

Extremism is what Afghanistan had before we went in. Again though, I agree with you - we never should've attacked that country

No end to either "peace" in sight. Unemployment rates the fastest rising in the whole of Europe (and that's ignoring the statistically friendly over-flow parking of people off work with disability allowance - 5.9 million people are off work and on benefits for a multitude of different reasons). Nearly 80% of all graduate nurses face unemployment. Taxation meaning that year after year, people are actually worse off, with less final take home, than the year before. Immigration so out of control that human slavery is flourishing in this country. Muslim extremism rampant, to the extent that America percieves it's greatest threat of terrorist attack comes not from Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but from the UK. Human rights being rapidly corroded. A level of media control so high in the country that ITV have been banned from interviewing front line soldiers after a series of negative reports about the poor treatment of injured soldiers. The BBC cowed by the Hutton report into becoming glorified hand puppets. Dizzying levels of public debt, resting on a landmine of interest rates. People buying into honours, a party that effectively bankrupted itself and then broke legislation IT DEMANDED after exposing the Tory process, and hid all "loans" from sight.

I could carry on. This government is shit. It is corrupt, it is self serving, and it is so bloated with lies and misinformation that it's belly button is protruding.

I can't really contradict anything you've said damini

I agree on many of those points, I was a labour supporter - now I don't know who I'd vote for.

M

 

[Trem]

Trem - Minister for Food - that'll give them all something to think about

Damn straight!!

Corporal punishment will be brought back for incorrect sandwich making

 

[JBP|]

I'm gonna form the FreddysHouse political party.

Naturally, I'll be leader.

Throddy - you are cordially invited to be my deputy, in the style of Two-Jags

Trem - Minister for Food - that'll give them all something to think about

Damini - Minister for everything else just 'cos you rock (and I couldn't be assed to put others in - please feel free to add your own nominations)

I bagsy Home Secetary, I'll have you fookers goose stepping into work in no time.

In 6 months there will be no crime.
In 12 months i will get unemployment down to 0.
In 18 months the NHS will be in profit.


Britannia can rule again

 

[mank!]

you sure they aint on heroin?

yes i'm sure. they probably have waster tendencies but stoners are fucking irritating (except the bloke in the cornershop in swindon earlier today, he was sound) and everyone i know with a regular habit is a complete fucking waster.

ahem

 

[tris-]

then i hope you realise that isnt the same for a majority. everyone i know who smokes/smoked pot is anything but a waster.

 

[mank!]

of course there are exceptions to the rule, but if you're a pothead yourself then you're hardly likely to consider others wasters.

 

[tris-]

of course there are exceptions to the rule, but if you're a pothead yourself then you're hardly likely to consider others wasters.

like ive said, i know people doing PhDs who smoke pot. one is doing atmospheric chemistry and another doing research into insulators for the national grid. i think its unreasonable that anyone (pot head or not) could call them wasters. being someone who smokes pot doesnt take away the ability to think rationaly.

 

[nath]

I expect the people you know, tris, smoke it every now and again and manks buddies smoke it all the bloody time.

The point being, one can clearly smoke dope and have a normal productive life™, but it just depends how much you smoke.

 

[tris-]

last year i smoked, each week, probably the amount youd class as the same person who is a loser. i passed my first year of uni with 71% and had a job too at various times.
i dont think you can just apply your theory to every single person.

 

[TdC]

a mate of mine smoked every day, did large amounts of LSD and was doing psychology and philosophy at once at his uni. while working as an operating room assistant in his local hospital. sure, it can be done. myself, I tried it and failed miserably. I'm glad I gave up on drugs when I did, or, in my very real opinion I would not have the job I have today and the happy care-free lifestyle that comes with it.

oh, I'm certain that some types of people can take some drugs in moderation for their entire life and function perfectly well, while other types of people can't and will flush themselves down the toilet. I'm part of the latter group.

Mank wants to be straight edge, and while I respect that I do think that going SE is a bit overly restrictive on one's self. I like a pint every now and then and getting a bit boozed up with my mates but I prefer a bit of self moderation so I am getting home and making a cuppa for myself and the gf without falling down or doing a B&E at the neighbors by accident. On drugish things I think the only one I really enjoyed were magic mushrooms. all the others, in retrospect, were just a waste of time.

 

[mank!]

i'm not denying it's possible, like i said there's always exceptions to the rule but in my personal experience people who smoke pot on a daily basis generally end up being wasters.

personally i've never touched drugs, so i suppose this makes my opinion irrelevent.

 

[Bodhi]

I'm gonna form the FreddysHouse political party.

Naturally, I'll be leader.

Throddy - you are cordially invited to be my deputy, in the style of Two-Jags

Trem - Minister for Food - that'll give them all something to think about

Damini - Minister for everything else just 'cos you rock (and I couldn't be assed to put others in - please feel free to add your own nominations)

Shotgun Minister for Controlled Substances. Just give me the key to where they're all hidden and I'll report back to you in a year with my findings.