Does monster rez need an adjustment

[charmangle]

No DI bots ? Do you mean, their IS no DI in midgard or do you mean Healers just don't take DI or no solo players will /stick a DI3 healer to them ? Don't get it, Charl...

I have DI on my healers and I have seen people run around with DI healers stuck to them.

Might be better if Shammy's had access to DI. Yet again giving the Shammy DI would only make this more of a "well, you'll just HAVE to have a BB stuck to you"-game.

This basically answeres the question...

Lets not play dumb. Keep defence situation. You port in with your buffbot, maybe you are solo, maybe you got a few friends with you but you are not in some kind of set group because you are rushing to defend. In mid the buffbots are shamans and can't get DI. There are very few healer bots and most active healers would be offended if you called them DI bots.

Point here beeing that to have specbuffs while you are defending in mid your bot has to be a shaman which cant get DI not to mention cant have spreadheal. (I agree the last statment prolly go for most Alb bots too since you want your horribly great red defencive healproc. But if you only want capped buffs you can get 44/31 on the clerics like you can on a druid can you not? Anyway I degress!)

I find it alot easier to defend a siege vs Albs with my hib accounts than it is with my mid accounts, mostly because of the fact that DI bot helps alot vs the the Monster Ress damage (but not vs the interrupt ofc but alteast I dont face automatic death whenever a MR comes into LoS)

There migth be 1 or 2 DI bots in Mid but that takes someone who can logon 3 accounts or someone who dont think speccs are important. So they are extremly rare...but you are right, Since Tics have access to DI, that means Albs can have 1 more DI in group than Mids, and Hibs (I think or did I miss some odd class that has DI on hib?) so Shamans should have access to DI in all fairness. (and a second class in hib too ofc, not sure which one though, maybe vampire/bard or warden?

/Charmangle

ps. Ofc its a whole other story if we were talking about opted groups, but the huge point is that siege almost exclusivly are done with zergs and zergs are almost exclusivly randoms who run solo or duo with nonopted classes. And it is not fair to argue that zergs should create OPted groups, simply because its against the entire nature of a zerg. People go there to spend some time with instant action without to much effort. Standing around waiting for the right class setup to show up just isnt an option. ds

 

[Muylaetrix]

Biggest issue with monster rezz is high RR casters who do too much damage with the dot and the fact that every tic of the dot interupts...

100% crits really hurt.

 

[dub]

could just add monster rezz to say wardens and shammies spell list , after all you can just lvl EP to deal with it or grapple them ...

 

[Bloodcore]

ok so the alb cats class is abit op, i say we nerf bainshees instead!

working as intended o/

 

[Erulin]

I'm sorry, the fact that people don't want to be "called" a DI bot shouldn't prevent them from getting it. Offened or not, it's one of their abilities.

 

[Cadelin]

I'm sorry, the fact that people don't want to be "called" a DI bot shouldn't prevent them from getting it. Offened or not, it's one of their abilities.

This is probably why alb groups seem to suck so much. You don't need purge, you don't need moc or any of the other useful RA, you don't need to buff shear, cc or interupt. Just stand there and make sure DI is up meight and spread heal ofc.

The point I was making was that an active player is alot better than a bot. The trouble is that there are never enough healers (or seers in general) in a mid zerg.

 

[charmangle]

Eh...

I'm sorry, the fact that people don't want to be "called" a DI bot shouldn't prevent them from getting it. Offened or not, it's one of their abilities.

hmm..think you missunderstood something.
The point is that you cant have a buffbot that has DI in mid.
Because the very definition of a buff bot is that it has the buffs you need. And that class i Shaman in mid and it doesnt have DI.

In mid you have to either choose to have DI and no spec buffs or spec buffs and no DI, which would you choose if you had to choose?

Now this means that when you bring your BUFF bot to a siege fight so that it can ress/buff you when you die, you in Hib and Alb also have DI to be used to protect you from getting 1 shotted etc by bolts/high or killed without any possibility to save your self by things like MonsterRess dot. Mids dont have it, so insetad their chars die. And that makes a HUGE difference!

It has nothing to do with that active healers doesnt choose to have DI, ofc they take DI when they can afford it. But its very rare to have a healer in a group in a siege fight. Just as it is very rare to have an active cleric/druid in a small group of 1-3 players in a siege fight. And that fact makes it even more of a advantage to be able to have DI bots as you can in Hib/Alb.

/Charmangle

 

[Erulin]

A that way, oke yeah... I thought it sucked I couldn't get DI on my shamans. Oke, you have a point that there are not alot of active healers out there as yeah they are hard to level especially now that old fashion "pve grouping" hardly ever happens.

So give DI to shamans, if that is your main concern. Problem is that in each realm the abilities have been spread over different classes, safe for some unique abilities... insta AE stun, monster rezz, PBAE'ing melee styles, quick castable stuns on casters. The game wouldn't have had half it's appeal if all 3 realms had identical classes.

Sooner or later Monster Rezz will get adjusted, probably insta AE stun too... It's always been that way since day 3 of the US release of this game. 1 realm has something that gives them an advantage in a certain situation and the other 2 realms dislike it.... if gets nerfed/adjusted... And the next patch it's on to the next ability 1 of the realms has that gives it an advantage...

VERY few unique abilities have never been adjusted. AE insta stun did get an adjustment for example when they put in immunity timers as the real whine about it wasn't Midgard having it... it was the fact that people could insta ae stun and then continously cast AE stuns on people and keep them stunned indefinatly.

Give it time and MR will get a nerf/adjustment. WIll I like it ? Probably not, will the game get better because of it ? Probably not.... will I still have just as much fun as I did day 3 of this game... probably... And will till the day all 3 realms have the exact same classes or I'm the only 1 left

 

[Kagato]

As already stated by others, the only thing they need to do to bring MR more in line is to make the nature of the rezzed player irrelivent to the effect of the dot.

Currently the most dangerous monsters are high RR spellcasters with strong passive RA's for damage and criticals, but they are alot easier to kill too.

The most durable monsters are heavy tanks but their dots are less likely to do much harm, and of cause casters with high spell durations will probably last even longer if they are left unharmed, though I havent checked if that effect is transfered or not.

If they stopped these factors effecting the monsters then it would drastically decrease how lethal they are whilst still making them an important strategy to use.

 

[Erulin]

As already stated by others, the only thing they need to do to bring MR more in line is to make the nature of the rezzed player irrelivent to the effect of the dot.

Currently the most dangerous monsters are high RR spellcasters with strong passive RA's for damage and criticals, but they are alot easier to kill too.

The most durable monsters are heavy tanks but their dots are less likely to do much harm, and of cause casters with high spell durations will probably last even longer if they are left unharmed, though I havent checked if that effect is transfered or not.

If they stopped these factors effecting the monsters then it would drastically decrease how lethal they are whilst still making them an important strategy to use.

Good points you make. As I don't have any really high RR characters I don't know if the abilities transfer to monster. I doubt duration does as my sorc last just aslong as my pally (if left unharmed ofc) with my sorc having high +duration and my pally having none...

That would be a change I could live with. The dots not interupting after the intitial one would be too for me. Anyway, the only way it will ever change is if people send feedback directly to Mythic. I know for a fact that things change if you do.

 

[Nate]

Hibs are the only ones that should be allowed to whine about MR, Mids have a very perfect counter and that they don't decide to use that counter is their problem.

What is it mids have that hibs don't that would be a perfect counter for MR? high absorb spell? Nah thats on Bainshees..pet spam? Nah, we got cots! Oh it must be that COTS! nerf mids cots I guess, it's so great in pvp!

 

[Phule_Gubben]

Good points you make. As I don't have any really high RR characters I don't know if the abilities transfer to monster. I doubt duration does as my sorc last just aslong as my pally (if left unharmed ofc) with my sorc having high +duration and my pally having none...

That would be a change I could live with. The dots not interupting after the intitial one would be too for me. Anyway, the only way it will ever change is if people send feedback directly to Mythic. I know for a fact that things change if you do.

Spellduration doesn't matter, tried it out on both Heretic and on the MR:ed person so. 45 secs flat no + or anything.

 

[Corran]

What is it mids have that hibs don't that would be a perfect counter for MR? high absorb spell? Nah thats on Bainshees..pet spam? Nah, we got cots! Oh it must be that COTS! nerf mids cots I guess, it's so great in pvp!

Not played for awhile now as got bored with the community, but, assuming it still works in the same way the Warlock snare with the frog shapeshift would stop a MR in its tracks stripping it of the abs buffs. This was well known feature but instead of keeping it in a chamber ready during a keep fight all the warlocks wanted to do was put lifetaps in them.

 

[Norvindus]

The only thing the Warlock frog spell is good for now adays is to "slow" the monster down, as it does not remove its ABS, or its abillity to dot people. that "feature" was changed even before the latest round of adjustments.

The only things, and this is from hearsay not tested it myself so take it for what it is, that should work against monster is EP and Band of Stars. Both have a transformation spell on their use abillity. But as I haven't tried to use it myself its only hearsay.

 

[Puppet]

As already stated by others, the only thing they need to do to bring MR more in line is to make the nature of the rezzed player irrelivent to the effect of the dot.

Why is that the only adjustment? You played against monsters then ? For me personally the damage-component aint the biggest problem. The biggest problem to me is the fact it interrupts on all ticks and you cannot purge/cure the DoT. Even when the monster gets killed, the DoT will continue to kick without any means to get rid of it.

Been doing some keepdefenses/takes when I actively played and to me the Monsterrezz was just something really stupid. Can just send in monster after monster in a keepfight and it will totally ruin over defense/offense from hib/mid. Dont even need to play better as an Alb in there to win. Just send them zombies in continously and they will win eventually.

 

[Javai]

Why is that the only adjustment? You played against monsters then ? For me personally the damage-component aint the biggest problem. The biggest problem to me is the fact it interrupts on all ticks and you cannot purge/cure the DoT. Even when the monster gets killed, the DoT will continue to kick without any means to get rid of it.

Been doing some keepdefenses/takes when I actively played and to me the Monsterrezz was just something really stupid. Can just send in monster after monster in a keepfight and it will totally ruin over defense/offense from hib/mid. Dont even need to play better as an Alb in there to win. Just send them zombies in continously and they will win eventually.

But no more so than planting a shroom field which will kill people without los.

All realms have things that are OP'd in sieges and each realm has some form of counter to them if they choose to think about it and use it. I'd say since Warlock nerf Mids have the least siege toys but they still have two strong pbaoe classes and aoe stun, not to mention alot of aoe interupts on their tanks.

 

[charmangle]

Give it time and MR will get a nerf/adjustment. WIll I like it ? Probably not, will the game get better because of it ? Probably not.... will I still have just as much fun as I did day 3 of this game... probably... And will till the day all 3 realms have the exact same classes or I'm the only 1 left

Yea I know!
It is just starting to feel abit as if time is running out on fixes etc!

But as you say there are several things that should be dealt with.
The Mid insta AEstun effect was negated to useless in rvr rather effectivly during ToA. Basically all Pachealers specced away the instant ae stun for better heals simply because it was not worth the risk because of tendril spamming banelords.

And even though Im mainly a caster/support player, Im not sure I liked the Tendril nerf. Ofc it was a sure fight winner if you got stunned and could just start spamming tendrils, but then again its always been my opinion that stun is an effect that shouldnt be allowed in the game (or atleast very rare). Weather or not its good for my side. Simply because having an effect on you that makes it impossible for you to even try and defend yourself during the course of beeing killed, makes it boring (same goes for 1/2 shotting players in my opinion).

So if I could, I would remove all stun powers (styles, baseline stuns on hibs, pet stuns, and instastuns etc etc) except maybe, for the single base stun on main healing classes. (we do need to leave something for them to do. Now the root on druids are alot more fun to play with so..., but thats why I said maybe!

But either removing DI from the main buffing classes in Hib/Alb (giving it to a baseline buffing class instead maybe), making DI work only in FG groups, or giving it to Shamans (and maybe warden/bard) would be a nice start at evening the DI situation out in my opinion.

Not played for awhile now as got bored with the community, but, assuming it still works in the same way the Warlock snare with the frog shapeshift would stop a MR in its tracks stripping it of the abs buffs. This was well known feature but instead of keeping it in a chamber ready during a keep fight all the warlocks wanted to do was put lifetaps in them.

Yes thats what I like to call "depopping", but it never worked as described. It works on paper just not ingame. The problem when you depop a monster ress is that the damage is still done. Because the dot will still have hit all within LoS of the MR from the instant it rears its ugly head. Meaning all will still be dotted and zerged to death an instant after. It simply doesnt matter how much of an instant spell the depopping is, its not the longlivety of the MR that is the important thing here. Its the effect of the dot. Maybe just remove the dot effect on all targets when the MR dies/get depopped or gets cced.

/Charmangle

 

[joap]

But no more so than planting a shroom field which will kill people without los.

All realms have things that are OP'd in sieges and each realm has some form of counter to them if they choose to think about it and use it. I'd say since Warlock nerf Mids have the least siege toys but they still have two strong pbaoe classes and aoe stun, not to mention alot of aoe interupts on their tanks.

Problem is keep fights specially in lord rooms.
1) PBAoE classes: All realms have them, and they dont help unless they have moc.

2) AoE interrupts on tanks: All realms have those, but they can only do so much.

3) AoE stun: We aoe stun, the stuns wears off and we die after.

The best way to deal with the monster rezz is (as everyone knows) to CC, but in lord room defenses mids have very little stuff we can do. CC wont work because of the aoes (and you cant realisticaly expect it to), and even the warlock frog is hard to pull off in time.

 

[Azathrim]

Not, it doesn't need a nerf. The Heretic is there for some revenge for the pathetic siege situation over the last years. RR5, BOAD, Monster Rezz and the interrupts put Albion on the same level to Hibernia and Midgard.

Suchs bullshit.

Albion have always had a good benefit in their siege classes.

Sorcs being able to stand out of the 1500+ nuke range interrupting a sieged wall, while the other Albion nukers laid waste to anyone daring to go out in the open.

Sure, hibs could push the frontiers a bit with their shrooms. Mids on the other hand could only rely on sneak attacks (which albs could do as well). Ofcourse, we had a short period with Warlocks ... but hey ho, what they got fixed.

Just like Monster Rezz will be fixed.

 

[Andrilyn]

What is it mids have that hibs don't that would be a perfect counter for MR? high absorb spell? Nah thats on Bainshees..pet spam? Nah, we got cots! Oh it must be that COTS! nerf mids cots I guess, it's so great in pvp!

Warlock snare+shapechange = insta killed zombie, seeing as a Warlock has MoC even on rr1l1 it should be no prob to keep insta killing those monsters or atleast put a snare in your chambers if the zombies keep comming, they wont ever get far enough to interrupt your healers/support if a decent Warlock(olol) would play the class.
But most if not all Warlocks just think "damage damage damage" PBAE+DD LT+DD omfg I can't kill this zombie nerf please! while just a snare+morph would insta kill it.

Bainshee Magic absorb doesn't work that well against the DoT as prior to the Ablative change it would absorb the first DoT pulse but doesn't help against the interrupt or the amount of DoT's that proc after the first one, so yes Mids have it insanely easy to defend against Heretics monster rez Hibs however have no counter other than trying to get it CC'ed and hoping some Bainshee/chanter/eld/mentalist/animist aint going crazy with AoE/PBAE/CAE/FAE or whatever AoE spell.

Yes thats what I like to call "depopping", but it never worked as described. It works on paper just not ingame. The problem when you depop a monster ress is that the damage is still done. Because the dot will still have hit all within LoS of the MR from the instant it rears its ugly head. Meaning all will still be dotted and zerged to death an instant after. It simply doesnt matter how much of an instant spell the depopping is, its not the longlivety of the MR that is the important thing here. Its the effect of the dot. Maybe just remove the dot effect on all targets when the MR dies/get depopped or gets cced.

Warlocks should have no problem to 'depop' them before they hit the lord room, 'MoC' and chamber insta cast you be able to get them out of zombie mode on the stairs up or way before they hit your support on the back of the lord room or on the stairs to the roof.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Suchs bullshit.

Albion have always had a good benefit in their siege classes.

Sorcs being able to stand out of the 1500+ nuke range interrupting a sieged wall, while the other Albion nukers laid waste to anyone daring to go out in the open.

Sure, hibs could push the frontiers a bit with their shrooms. Mids on the other hand could only rely on sneak attacks (which albs could do as well). Ofcourse, we had a short period with Warlocks ... but hey ho, what they got fixed.

Just like Monster Rezz will be fixed.

Sorcs standing in the open casting mezz on a keep wall sounds more like an easy prey for me.

 

[Arkian]

Warlock snare+shapechange = insta killed zombie, seeing as a Warlock has MoC even on rr1l1 it should be no prob to keep insta killing those monsters or atleast put a snare in your chambers if the zombies keep comming, they wont ever get far enough to interrupt your healers/support if a decent Warlock(olol) would play the class.
But most if not all Warlocks just think "damage damage damage" PBAE+DD LT+DD omfg I can't kill this zombie nerf please! while just a snare+morph would insta kill it.

Bainshee Magic absorb doesn't work that well against the DoT as prior to the Ablative change it would absorb the first DoT pulse but doesn't help against the interrupt or the amount of DoT's that proc after the first one, so yes Mids have it insanely easy to defend against Heretics monster rez Hibs however have no counter other than trying to get it CC'ed and hoping some Bainshee/chanter/eld/mentalist/animist aint going crazy with AoE/PBAE/CAE/FAE or whatever AoE spell.



Warlocks should have no problem to 'depop' them before they hit the lord room, 'MoC' and chamber insta cast you be able to get them out of zombie mode on the stairs up or way before they hit your support on the back of the lord room or on the stairs to the roof.

The ABS cancelation of the monster when frogged was fixed a while ago.

Frog now just snares, still makes them a bastard to kill.

 

[Erulin]

Yea I know!
It is just starting to feel abit as if time is running out on fixes etc!

But as you say there are several things that should be dealt with.
The Mid insta AEstun effect was negated to useless in rvr rather effectivly during ToA. Basically all Pachealers specced away the instant ae stun for better heals simply because it was not worth the risk because of tendril spamming banelords.

And even though Im mainly a caster/support player, Im not sure I liked the Tendril nerf.

/Charmangle

And in that lies the problem this game has faced since it was first released. They never go back and "redo" adjustments. Pac Healers as you said specced aways from instant ae stun because it was not worth the risk because of tendril spamming banelords. Dark Tendrils got nerfed, but noone specced back. I don't remember if the Banelord nerf came in before or after people getting RP for heals...

Mythic sufferes from this same effect, the "redo" on a adjustments. I give you an example. A long long time ago, Albion suffered from what was affictionatly called "Smite-itis" Due to the fact that the insta AE mezz recast timer was on a shorter re-cast timer then the duration of the red AE mezz players found that could could in most casses effectivly whipe out entire groups by keeping them AE mezzed and smiting them one by one.

As a result of this, Albion had 0.0 healing other then the occasional smiter taking piety on them and the even more occasional friar healing their group.

So, Mythic put the AE mezz on an excesively long recast timer (5 min ?) rendering it utterly useless to make MMSC's (Mass Murdering Smite Clerics (tm) ) All but the smite clerics rejoiced. The enemy did because they weren't getting killed in full groups by a single player. Albion itself as it finaly got to have some healing.

Now I think it was 4 patches later, they put in the immunity timers because of all the whines that had started about the AEO stuns getting spammed ( just as you have FoTM classes there's always been a FoTM whine ) BUT Mythic never 're-adjusted' the AEO Mezz recast on clerics. The immunity timers rendered it useless to use MMSC's even more effectivly then the long recast timer had.... but no "redo" on it

This has ALWAYS been a weakness of Mythic. To never review the impact of adjustments over the course of several patch cycles. The Adjust, it seems fine... move on to next Adjust... Sort of a Fire and Forget Adjustment missle if you will.

Anywho, they finaly got around to "reviewing" some classes and adjusting things for the better/worse. <--- Depending on the PoV of the player.

Personaly I prefer to actualy slap around tanks with my heretic then to MR, so I wouldn't even feel the adjustment all the much as I hardly ever take her to keep raids. Against a single target it is a better tank then most pally's.

 

[brad]

Warlock snare+shapechange = insta killed zombie, seeing as a Warlock has MoC even on rr1l1 it should be no prob to keep insta killing those monsters or atleast put a snare in your chambers if the zombies keep comming, they wont ever get far enough to interrupt your healers/support if a decent Warlock(olol) would play the class.
But most if not all Warlocks just think "damage damage damage" PBAE+DD LT+DD omfg I can't kill this zombie nerf please! while just a snare+morph would insta kill it.

Bainshee Magic absorb doesn't work that well against the DoT as prior to the Ablative change it would absorb the first DoT pulse but doesn't help against the interrupt or the amount of DoT's that proc after the first one, so yes Mids have it insanely easy to defend against Heretics monster rez Hibs however have no counter other than trying to get it CC'ed and hoping some Bainshee/chanter/eld/mentalist/animist aint going crazy with AoE/PBAE/CAE/FAE or whatever AoE spell.



Warlocks should have no problem to 'depop' them before they hit the lord room, 'MoC' and chamber insta cast you be able to get them out of zombie mode on the stairs up or way before they hit your support on the back of the lord room or on the stairs to the roof.

Try find a zombie in middle of the alb zerg tbh. With new gfx changes they keep all their armour so all you can see if their legs/arms if im right. Trying to spot that in a zerg fight when tones of spells going of and mayhem is ridulous tbh.

 

[kivik]

Mids have a very perfect counter and that they don't decide to use that counter is their problem.

Shame it doesn't work

Got any other good tricks in your pocket to counter MRs?

 

[Azathrim]

Sorcs standing in the open casting mezz on a keep wall sounds more like an easy prey for me.

Not more than other casters. In fact less so, since they don't need to get into the DD range to interrupt the entire keep wall.

 

[Phule_Gubben]

Why hasn't this been such a big issue earlier? All of a sudden someone cries "nerf" and then all jump on the same bandwagon, yes I agree it's powerful but only in certain situations, which doesn't apply to a lot of other stuff.

So I really can't see why it should be nerfed as much as some of you think.

 

[Azathrim]

Why hasn't this been such a big issue earlier? All of a sudden someone cries "nerf" and then all jump on the same bandwagon, yes I agree it's powerful but only in certain situations, which doesn't apply to a lot of other stuff.

So I really can't see why it should be nerfed as much as some of you think.

It have always been a major issue since Heretics got out. What changes is how much Albs use MR and how much energy people have to actually bother doing keep fights against the most overpowered realm when it comes to sieges.

 

[cmr]

jaja they can be CCed before a zerg etc.... shut up you know with a zerg its somehow going to get broken because in zerg fights you need ae to win and if you dont use AE and the other side does then your fucked

its a fucking joke in tower/bridge/keep fights and if you cant see that you need to pull your head out of your ass


albion has so many overpowered classes has always been the case just not had the players to utilise them.. sorc cabby thuerg heretic... these played well can be fucking unreal.... just lucky that the majority of albion players do have there heads up there asses and cant play for shit which evens it out

 

[Gahn]

Why hasn't this been such a big issue earlier? All of a sudden someone cries "nerf" and then all jump on the same bandwagon, yes I agree it's powerful but only in certain situations, which doesn't apply to a lot of other stuff.

So I really can't see why it should be nerfed as much as some of you think.

Makes me cry outta of my laughs seeing same ppl crying like bastards on a situational thing like shrooms, denying the imbalance of another thing since it's on THEIR side. Clowns.