TV Doctor Who

[MYstIC G]

I still think that's just lazy writing - as is re-using 'a Christmas carol' again.

Seriously, it's freaking explained in the episode

Spoiler

General's aid: The high council is in an emergency session, They have plans of their own.
Time lord general: To hell with the high council Their plans have already failed, Gallifrey is still in the line of fire.

 

[rynnor]

Seriously, it's freaking explained in the episode

Spoiler

General's aid: The high council is in an emergency session, They have plans of their own.
Time lord general: To hell with the high council Their plans have already failed, Gallifrey is still in the line of fire.

How does that resolve the Timelords = evil / Timelords = not evil issue then?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What Mystic is saying, i believe, is that the evil timelords(shown in drums) are the high council, and the ones shown in special are the military. It's completely understandable that while the high copuncil looks like dicks, the military can still look like valiant soldiers.

The whole "evil timelords" doesn't really apply anyway as they've always been an assortment of dicks.

 

[rynnor]

What Mystic is saying, i believe, is that the evil timelords(shown in drums) are the high council, and the ones shown in special are the military. It's completely understandable that while the high copuncil looks like dicks, the military can still look like valiant soldiers.

The whole "evil timelords" doesn't really apply anyway as they've always been an assortment of dicks.

In a war who is likely to change more - those fighting it or politicians?

 

[DaGaffer]

What Mystic is saying, i believe, is that the evil timelords(shown in drums) are the high council, and the ones shown in special are the military. It's completely understandable that while the high copuncil looks like dicks, the military can still look like valiant soldiers.

The whole "evil timelords" doesn't really apply anyway as they've always been an assortment of dicks.

Mmmm, the impression given through the whole of nu-Who about the Time War is that the destruction of the Time Lords wasn't just a case of Gallifrey being "in the way" (as is implied in the Day of The Doctor), but that the destruction of the Time Lords (not Gallifrey, the Time Lords specifically) and the Daleks was the only way to end the war. If you think about it, there's a war going on across the whole of time and space and every single Time Lord and Gallifreyan (except the Doctor)is on Gallifrey? That doesn't actually make any sense. For all its problems at least the Star Trek movie didn't assume every Vulcan in existence copped it when Nero did his drilling thing.

I was actually quite disappointed with that aspect of The Day of The Doctor; a big fucking bomb (even a sentient one) seemed like a bit of an inelegant solution; no war ever ends up with every single protagonist all conveniently in the same place at the same time.

 

[MYstIC G]

What Mystic is saying, i believe, is that the evil timelords(shown in drums) are the high council, and the ones shown in special are the military. It's completely understandable that while the high copuncil looks like dicks, the military can still look like valiant soldiers.

The whole "evil timelords" doesn't really apply anyway as they've always been an assortment of dicks.

When Toht gets it before you, it's time to give up

I was actually quite disappointed with that aspect of The Day of The Doctor; a big fucking bomb (even a sentient one) seemed like a bit of an inelegant solution; no war ever ends up with every single protagonist all conveniently in the same place at the same time.

Think it's more a big fucking scalpel than a bomb, they just overused the phrase "burn" all the time in the show to make it seem otherwise. My understanding of the Moment is that it can basically erase anything from history (almost a non-comical version of the Inquisitor from Red Dwarf without the clever twist of you being your own judge) which also explains its ability to do things like open portals through time.

Bottom line though is as @Wij said, Who lore is a bunch of shady grey conflicting areas anyway, e.g. time locks had already lost all meaning when Davros was retrieved by Dalek Khan, etc, etc.

 

[DaGaffer]

When Toht gets it before you, it's time to give up
Think it's more a big fucking scalpel than a bomb, they just overused the phrase "burn" all the time in the show to make it seem otherwise. My understanding of the Moment is that it can basically erase anything from history (almost a non-comical version of the Inquisitor from Red Dwarf without the clever twist of you being your own judge) which also explains its ability to do things like open portals through time.

Bottom line though is as @Wij said, Who lore is a bunch of shady grey conflicting areas anyway, e.g. time locks had already lost all meaning when Davros was retrieved by Dalek Khan, etc, etc.

Yes but my point was that to end the Time War it was the people (Gallifreyans/Time Lords) that were part of the problem, not the place (Gallifrey), so ultimately hiding the planet doesn't really fix anything. The impression I always got was that a Time Lord victory would have been just as bad as a Dalek one. If he brings them back, how does that change?

 

[MYstIC G]

Yes but my point was that to end the Time War it was the people (Gallifreyans/Time Lords) that were part of the problem, not the place (Gallifrey), so ultimately hiding the planet doesn't really fix anything. The impression I always got was that a Time Lord victory would have been just as bad as a Dalek one. If he brings them back, how does that change?

I don't disagree, I just think the in Who this is all no more than a repeating paradox (almost *spit* Matrix style *spit*). The Daleks have already been brought back more than once (albeit the last time just to sell toys) so doubtless Mr Moffat will just bring back the Time Lords at some point and restart the war, it's been a recurring theme since the 4th (I think) Doctor went to see if he could stop the Daleks at their point of creation.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I always thought the problem with timelords wasn't with the whole race, but some individuals(like UK politicians)

I also like to think that what info we're given at any point is what the timeline dictates it to be at that point in time and what it needs to be to get to the next point. Though the downside is that timelocks/fixed points in time are now pretty much open to plot devices, but that too can change in the future, nulling everything that happened in day of the doctor. And now my head hurts.

Kinda like saying the only advice you should listen to is not to listen to other peoples advice...

 

[Hawkwind]

How does that resolve the Timelords = evil / Timelords = not evil issue then?

Spoiler

Thought that taken care of at the beginning with the ship crashing and the crew member blaming the Timelords war with the Darleks for the wiping out most of the universe. She basically said that they were equally to blame for the mess. I think it was a case of perception. The Dr was going to destroy both sides to save the universe. Although it was logically the right thing to do, morally it was wrong. Which they had all agreed by the end of the episode. What's to understand?

 

[rynnor]

Spoiler

Thought that taken care of at the beginning with the ship crashing and the crew member blaming the Timelords war with the Darleks for the wiping out most of the universe. She basically said that they were equally to blame for the mess. I think it was a case of perception. The Dr was going to destroy both sides to save the universe. Although it was logically the right thing to do, morally it was wrong. Which they had all agreed by the end of the episode. What's to understand?

Watch season 3 episodes 12 and 13 then you will see the problem.

 

[rynnor]

I always thought the problem with timelords wasn't with the whole race, but some individuals(like UK politicians)

If it was just a few why would the Doctor say he chose to remember his race as they were before - he clearly not going to tar a race with the actions of a few individuals.

 

[MYstIC G]

Watch season 3 episodes 12 and 13 then you will see the problem.

But the Doctor in that episode is the Doctor following the war doctor who HAD decided to destroy them all

At that point in Dr Who's own personal timeline as the war doctor he felt he had no other option and used the moment... you then go through, 10th to get to 11th to get to the point of The Day of the Doctor where he (11th) changes his mind, with help from his past selves goes back and does something else and then explains in the episode WHY HE WON'T REMEMBER THAT THIS CHANGE HAS NOW HAPPENED

*sigh*

 

[rynnor]

The other problem with the timelords coming back is that it casts the Doctor back into his old role from before the restart where he's basically a naughty boy who ran away from home while his parents (the timelords) are back looking after time.

 

[rynnor]

But the Doctor in that episode is the Doctor following the war doctor who HAD decided to destroy them all

At that point in Dr Who's own personal timeline as the war doctor he felt he had no other option and used the moment... you then go through, 10th to get to 11th to get to the point of The Day of the Doctor where he (11th) changes his mind, with help from his past selves goes back and does something else and then explains in the episode WHY HE WON'T REMEMBER THAT THIS CHANGE HAS NOW HAPPENED

*sigh*

None of that changes how he would have felt about his race as you can clearly see.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If it was just a few why would the Doctor say he chose to remember his race as they were before - he clearly not going to tar a race with the actions of a few individuals.

That doesn't imply the whole race. To throw a godwin in here; people remember nazi germany as evil, yet they also know not ALL of nazi time germany was evil.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But i like that aspect of the whoniverse, there's no real right answer and much like a timeywimey ball of stuff you can poke and adjust it yourself. I'm sure there's thousands of doctors daughter theories as well

 

[Gwadien]

PEOPLE ARE QUESTIONING THE REALISM OF A PROGRAM WHERE THE DUDE TRAVELS ANYWHERE HE WANTS WHEN EVER HE WANTS AND FIGHTS ALIENS AND SHIT

 

[rynnor]

PEOPLE ARE QUESTIONING THE REALISM OF A PROGRAM WHERE THE DUDE TRAVELS ANYWHERE HE WANTS WHEN EVER HE WANTS AND FIGHTS ALIENS AND SHIT

No they aren't.

 

[Scouse]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiCcp4Jk-34#t=242

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Heh arguing over Doctor Who continuity is like trying argue whether milk is wetter than cola.

There's never been any decent continuity. Every now and again the script writers pick up something fun from the Doc's scatology lore and play with it. The only thing that matters is if it is fun while its onscreen.

The 50th special was fun, I enjoyed it a lot.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Heh arguing over Doctor Who continuity is like trying argue whether milk is wetter than cola.

Clearly milk, cola has bubblies in it so it has less liquid in it and also it's a dehydrant *nod*

 

[Bigmac]

"On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."

Well its finally here, less than 4 hours till the doctor is killed by another prophecy. Can't wait.

 

[Chilly]

fucking lol. walofs.

 

[russell]

God that was shitter than shit. Really disapointed.

 

[Bigmac]

Yeah it was, seems to be the trend in most shows, make a great episode followed by a shit one.

 

[chipper]

i really liked it tbh wasnt what i was expecting at all i really enjoyed the way matt smith went out.

 

[Moriath]

You were not expecting sudden time lord magic interjection to blow away 50 years of story and give us a thirteenth regeneration. Poof it's all better and you can regen another twelve times. Very poor way of getting round a fixed limit. IMO.

 

[BloodOmen]

You were not expecting sudden time lord magic interjection to blow away 50 years of story and give us a thirteenth regeneration. Poof it's all better and you can regen another twelve times. Very poor way of getting round a fixed limit. IMO.

True but i'd rather they did that than ended Dr Who tbh.

 

[Moriath]

True but i'd rather they did that than ended Dr Who tbh.

Something with a bit more imagination than some fairy dust from a craggy piece of light would be good. And how did that fit in with the recur of the time lords in the 50 episode. Guess that was conveniently in another universe so it has no effect on this one.