TV Doctor Who

[MYstIC G]

Shame it doesn't fit what happened inside the timelock on Gallifrey - Moffat is creative but crap at keeping the big picture in mind and fitting his writing into the series.

How so?

 

[rynnor]

Series 3 - episodes 12 and 13 to be precise.

 

[soze]

Spoiler

I was not a fan tbh. It was a great episode but i really liked the idea of this War Doctor doing what was right. The fact he now has this cop out and it was all happy "timey-wimey" it takes away from his character tbh.

 

[MYstIC G]

Series 3 - episodes 12 and 13 to be precise.

Spoiler

If you mean the current series 3, i.e. the sound of the drums, then it doesn't really break it because you could interpret being frozen in time in a picture as being "time locked" to be honest.

 

[rynnor]

Spoiler

If you mean the current series 3, i.e. the sound of the drums, then it doesn't really break it because you could interpret being frozen in time in a picture as being "time locked" to be honest.

Where was Timothy Dalton? Where was the whole leadership of the Time Lords? The Doctor already knew Gallifrey still existed but was frozen in a moment in time.

The Doctor had also previously stated that the Timelords became twisted by war into monsters (series 3 episode 13) - what we see in todays episode is a heroic defence - now we have two Gallifreys markedly different thanks to Moffat.

 

[MYstIC G]

Where was Timothy Dalton? Where was the whole leadership of the Time Lords? The Doctor already knew Gallifrey still existed but was frozen in a moment in time.

The Doctor had also previously stated that the Timelords became twisted by war into monsters - what we see in todays episode is a heroic defence - now we have two Gallifreys markedly different thanks to Moffat.

They explained that with

Spoiler

Where they kept saying at the end in the room that they would not remember this. Any Doctor Pre-Matt Smith will remember the time lords as utter bastards

Rewatch sir!

 

[rynnor]

They explained that with

Spoiler

Where they kept saying at the end in the room that they would not remember this. Any Doctor Pre-Matt Smith will remember the time lords as utter bastards

Rewatch sir!

That makes no sense - why would he remember them as monsters (which in series 3 they clearly are) when in this reality they are doing a last ditch defence.

The two storylines are irreconcilable.

 

[rynnor]

Quite entertaining though - a fun episode I just happen to think it wrecks the canon of storylines up to this point.

 

[MYstIC G]

That makes no sense - why would he remember them as monsters (which in series 3 they clearly are) when in this reality they are doing a last ditch defence.

The two storylines are irreconcilable.

They aren't, honestly.

 

[DaGaffer]

They explained that with

Spoiler

Where they kept saying at the end in the room that they would not remember this. Any Doctor Pre-Matt Smith will remember the time lords as utter bastards

Rewatch sir!

Not really. Its been made pretty explicit that the Time Lords had become nearly as bad as the Daleks when the Doctor blows 'em up; this is a whole different spin on things.

I actually thoroughly enjoyed it, but it does rely on ignoring several years of plot development (especially The Sound of Drums, but not only that). Also

Spoiler

The Tom Baker thing was lovely but what did it mean? And where those Capaldi's eyes we saw when all the Tardises (Tardii?) arrived?

 

[chipper]

well ofc gallifrey still exists its always existed the point is its time locked which means he cannot visit that piece of time and space its effectively a dead time line. locked away from the rest of the universe which is why he cannot (usually) go back to gallifrey on a jolly etc. and up until this episode the dr will have remembered nothing about what they did to save gallifrey.

as for the whole monsters thing im not sure does seem a bit inconsistent

 

[MYstIC G]

Not really. Its been made pretty explicit that the Time Lords had become nearly as bad as the Daleks when the Doctor blows 'em up; this is a whole different spin on things.

I actually thoroughly enjoyed it, but it does rely on ignoring several years of plot development (especially The Sound of Drums, but not only that). Also

Spoiler

The Tom Baker thing was lovely but what did it mean? And where those Capaldi's eyes we saw when all the Tardises (Tardii?) arrived?

Disagree

Spoiler

Rasillion is the bad guy. That episode was already broken anyway because it should have been impossible for Rasillion to put the White Point Star on Earth. Baker, don't know. Capaldi, yes.

 

[Bigmac]

Loved it. Looking forward to the Christmas special.

 

[rynnor]

Disagree

Spoiler

Rasillion is the bad guy. That episode was already broken anyway because it should have been impossible for Rasillion to put the White Point Star on Earth.

That was the point of the master - his link to the time lock left a tiny breach through which the gem could pass - he was designed as a failsafe.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fun thing about timetravel and timeywimey stuff, you can change things without any reason

 

[rynnor]

Fun thing about timetravel and timeywimey stuff, you can change things without any reason

All fiction has to maintain a sense of internal logic even if it bears no relation to our reality. To suggest just because its fantasy you can have crap writing is lazy.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And simply calling it crap writing without having the full story/timeline is prejudgemental.

 

[rynnor]

And simply calling it crap writing without having the full story/timeline is prejudgemental.

What are you blathering about - it was a show which presumably you watched - it has to stand on both its own merits and fit within the long running story.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes and since you don't know the full story of the doctor yet, I'll let tennant explain;


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw

 

[rynnor]

Yes and since you don't know the full story of the doctor yet, I'll let tennant explain [/quote]

I think your missing the point about it being part of a series and making sense - it's been clear since Moffat took over that he's creative but pretty darn bad at maintaining the big picture.

The sooner he goes the better because its turning into a parody of itself which is a shame because in previous seasons it had some excellent stories.

 

[Wij]

Meh. Doctor Who is the softest of soft scifi. It's never self-consistent.

As for Tom Baker if I remember they specifically said they don't know what he is. I think you're just supposed to make of it what you want.

It was a decentish episode.

It made me wonder if it was written for Ecclestone, Tennant and Smith but Hurt was added when Eccleston refused. Things might have made more sense that way.

 

[Hawkwind]

I really liked the episode and it made sense to me. Opens up an interesting story line. Really looking forward to the new series.

 

[Raven]

It was all very dramatic, lots of hand waving, looking inspired and shouting.

 

[DaGaffer]

One thing; what happened with the Zygons? The negotiation started but what was the outcome? Do the Zygons own Birmingham now? (It would explain a lot).

 

[MYstIC G]

One thing; what happened with the Zygons? The negotiation started but what was the outcome? Do the Zygons own Birmingham now? (It would explain a lot).

Not entirely sure on that one, it really wasn't dealt with. The moment with scarf girl and her Zygon counterpart borrowing the inhaler also made little sense to me tbfh.

 

[MYstIC G]

It made me wonder if it was written for Ecclestone, Tennant and Smith but Hurt was added when Eccleston refused. Things might have made more sense that way.

Really miffed about the whole Ecclestone mess, he's probably my favourite Doctor Who

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think your missing the point about it being part of a series and making sense - it's been clear since Moffat took over that he's creative but pretty darn bad at maintaining the big picture.

Thing is that it does make sense and things that don't, might next year. For example you saying that they were potrayed as having a heroic last stand, i saw nothing of the sort and in any case that might just be how it is -now-. As long as the story isn't done, timeywimey tings can change. Much like river song, only made truly sense in the end.

I'd rather you discuss the fez paradox, much more interesting.

 

[Ormorof]

the bbc usually explains any discrepancies as "lingering effects of the time war on the space time continuum"

technically having lots of time travels buggering things up all over the place is a nice get out of jail free card for most things

 

[rynnor]

I still think that's just lazy writing - as is re-using 'a Christmas carol' again.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah it's not the first time the timewar is a plot device, it's like "looking at things while driving" in walking dead