Question Do you honestly believe 9/11 was a US government conspiracy?

[Tuthmes]

I have. Even then some things are stil incredible:

Flying a plane into the side of the Pentagon is quite an achievement.
What are the odds of the 2 World Trade Towers falling (nearly) exactly the same way?

Could list some more, but it's besides the point. As I dont really belief in a ""conspwiacay" theory either. But still the smell of fish is there.

 

[Krazeh]

Flying a plane into the side of the Pentagon is quite an achievement.

Why so?

What are the odds of the 2 World Trade Towers falling (nearly) exactly the same way?

How/why would you have expected them to fall differently from each other?

 

[CorNokZ]

Look at some of the clips in the documentary.. a third tower went down by it self (no plane hit it..) and it went down the exact same way as if a bomb had been detonated at the bottom.

The documentary also pointed out a lot of other things about it.. so I completely understand where all these people are coming from, but I don't think it was solely the goverment.

You voted yes? so you think it was planned all along? Al Qaeda had nothing to do with it? Ahahahahahahaha!!

The buildings going down that were not hit by planes collapsed due to the massive fires and the heat at ground level

 

[Keitanz]

Erm a massive steel building shouldn't collapse due to a fire at ground level...

IF you look what I voted for, it says.. "Yes. Definitely some form of US government conspiracy.".. .. "some form"..

It just doesn't all add up, why did they let two well known al qaeda members in to the country? was it a genuine mistake or did they do it on purpose because they knew they were plotting something and the government wanted something to happen?

It could have been 100% al qaeda, but there are too many suspicious things which went on that day.

 

[Krazeh]

It just doesn't all add up, why did they let two well known al qaeda members in to the country? was it a genuine mistake or did they do it on purpose because they knew they were plotting something and the government wanted something to happen?

So the choices are that the US government was either incompetent or was some sort of evil mastermind that was willing to allow the deaths of thousands of US citizens? Hmmm, I think i'm going to have to go with the incompetent option.

It could have been 100% al qaeda, but there are too many suspicious things which went on that day.

No, there really wasn't.

 

[Marc]

If you bother to investigate the matter, using reliable sources, you'll find that the "odd things going on" aren't really going on at all.

Nutters flew aircraft into buildings at high speed, lots of fires and explosions, buildings collapsed. The end.

This

But

Conspiracy whack jobs dont use reliable sources. They quote some dude who knows fuck all and base their assumptions on this. Its laughable.

Read the david icke forums for a laugh and its scary what some people believe.

 

[Marc]

Erm a massive steel building shouldn't collapse due to a fire at ground level... .

Says you. What are your qualifications to make this assumption?

I will take the report of The National Institute of Standards and Technology.

 

[Ctuchik]

No, because I'm not a complete idiot.

What he said...

 

[Ctuchik]

Says you. What are your qualifications to make this assumption?

I will take the report of The National Institute of Standards and Technology.

It won't matter, those people want it to be a conspiracy so badly you could take any evidence you find and beat them to death with it and they still wouldn't see it.

It's self inflicted brain washing of a sort i guess....

/edit: i mean they still think the "wingding code" is an actual flight number of one of the planes when it wasn't...

 

[dysfunction]

You can't argue with a conspiracy theorist because they keep making up "evidence" and saying yes but it's all weird and strange how this and that happened..

 

[Tuthmes]

Why so?

As you prolly know flying low with an airplane is quite difficult. Doing it with a large commercial airliner is even more difficult. In a residential area? Not saying it's impossible for a novice pilot though.

How/why would you have expected them to fall differently from each other?

Fall sideways at some point (or where the planes hit), stop collapsing in on itself? They went down perfectly. That happend not once, but twice. What are the odds? I would say it's down to how the structure was build, but I can see why people are frowning.

 

[Kahland]

9/11 is all attention whoring. Enough said!

 

[DaGaffer]

Al-Qaeda first denies and years later claims reponsibility? If you planned and carried out that stuff, you would, rather claim responsibility atleast 1 day later cheering and laughing out loud @ the USA.
Hell I don't know. I tend to belief the sane non tinfoil head story, but there are so many odd things going on.

Revisionism. Al Qaeda took responsibilty for 9/11 pretty much straight away.

I have. Even then some things are stil incredible:

Flying a plane into the side of the Pentagon is quite an achievement.
What are the odds of the 2 World Trade Towers falling (nearly) exactly the same way?

Could list some more, but it's besides the point. As I dont really belief in a ""conspwiacay" theory either. But still the smell of fish is there.

Since both towers were constructed the same way and both suffered a similar attack...pretty high actually. It would have been more of a surprise if they'd collapsed differently.

Erm a massive steel building shouldn't collapse due to a fire at ground level...

A building that had been on fire for seven hours.

IF you look what I voted for, it says.. "Yes. Definitely some form of US government conspiracy.".. .. "some form"..

It just doesn't all add up, why did they let two well known al qaeda members in to the country? was it a genuine mistake or did they do it on purpose because they knew they were plotting something and the government wanted something to happen?

It could have been 100% al qaeda, but there are too many suspicious things which went on that day.

Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence. America is a big place with a lot of airports, and in 2001 the only people US Customs were ever interested in stopping at the airport were potential illegal immigrants. America had had one terrorist attack (from a non-US source) in its entire history at that point; no-one took terrorism seriously, that was a thing Europeans had to think about, not America.

As you prolly know flying low with an airplane is quite difficult. Doing it with a large commercial airliner is even more difficult. In a residential area? Not saying it's impossible for a novice pilot though.

No its not. Flying low slowly is quite difficult; zooming along at 400 mph is a piece of piss if you have no intention of ever landing again. This has been debunked time and time again. The only flying part of the whole event that pilots have said took skill was the crash into the Pentagon.

Fall sideways at some point (or where the planes hit), stop collapsing in on itself? They went down perfectly. That happend not once, but twice. What are the odds? I would say it's down to how the structure was build, but I can see why people are frowning.

Physics. The planes didn't impart enough energy to push the buildings over, and the gap created by the destroyed floors wasn't big enough to "tilt" the upper floors into a sideways collapse. The only way the buildings could actually collapse was straight down because it was the weight of the uppers floors pushing straight down that caused the building to collapse, not the kinetic energy from the aircraft. This is why both buildings went down the same way.

This is what pisses me off about the whole conspiracy angle; its basically "I don't believe what I've just seen".

 

[old.Tohtori]

Don't care for me. Would be fun if it was, but otherwise meh.

10 year anniversary is pretty pointless though as its been tooted out the telly etc for the past ten years every year and some in between.

 

[Tuthmes]

Revisionism. Al Qaeda took responsibilty for 9/11 pretty much straight away.

Suspicion quickly fell on al-Qaeda. Its leader Osama bin Laden initially denied involvement, but in 2004 he finally claimed responsibility for the attacks.

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since both towers were constructed the same way and both suffered a similar attack...pretty high actually. It would have been more of a surprise if they'd collapsed differently.

Constructed the same way, perhaps. But they arent exact copies. Similar attack? Well yes, in both a plane flew. But both prolly didnt have the same speed, certainly didnt have the same angle and didnt hit at the same height.

Dont over simplify just because it's convenient.

No its not. Flying low slowly is quite difficult; zooming along at 400 mph is a piece of piss if you have no intention of ever landing again. This has been debunked time and time again. The only flying part of the whole event that pilots have said took skill was the crash into the Pentagon.

Well that's the point. To fly into the Pentagon you have to fly low (and avoid obstacles and buildings). Let's just state that flying into the Pentagon is quite a skill for a novice pilot and leave the discussion of flying low to pilots who actually done it.

Physics. The planes didn't impart enough energy to push the buildings over, and the gap created by the destroyed floors wasn't big enough to "tilt" the upper floors into a sideways collapse. The only way the buildings could actually collapse was straight down because it was the weight of the uppers floors pushing straight down that caused the building to collapse, not the kinetic energy from the aircraft. This is why both buildings went down the same way.

Really? The only way the buildings could collapse was straight down (insert random investigation)? Doubt anyone will argue it was the kinetic energy from the aircraft as the buildings stood for quite a whiled after beeing struck by the planes.

Tbh the pancake theory (which you hold true (and I do aswell)) almost sounds incredible. Perfectly down all the way through, 2 times. That's some engineering skill you got there.

This is what pisses me off about the whole conspiracy angle; its basically "I don't believe what I've just seen".

I will agree with you on this one.

 

[old.user4556]

I've just watched the iPlayer link and that Frank Wotzhizname (xfiles dude) touched on exactly what I said; when your own government is full of bullshitting barefaced liars, then no wonder there is doubt.

 

[DaGaffer]

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note, I said Al Qaeda took responsbility pretty much right away, not Osama Bin Laden.

 

[throdgrain]

Why would anyone want to blow up thier own city.

 

[DaGaffer]

I've just watched the iPlayer link and that Frank Wotzhizname (xfiles dude) touched on exactly what I said; when your own government is full of bullshitting barefaced liars, then no wonder there is doubt.

Yeah but they're also stupid bullshitting barefaced liars. This is what blows the conspiracy theories out of the water. All the subsequent events after 9/11 show the powers that be in the US government to be incompetent as well as venal and untrustworthy, at pretty much every turn. They're just not smart enough to have pulled off 9/11 and also kept it secret. Unless you believe they deliberately behaved like they had the collective IQ of a bag of mince to keep everyone off balance, in which case you should just check yourself into a rubber room right now.

 

[Tuthmes]

Note, I said Al Qaeda took responsbility pretty much right away, not Osama Bin Laden.

I fail to see where Al Qaeda took responsibility right after the attacks. Also Osama bin Laden was the spokesman for Al Qaeda. If anyone spoke for Al Qaeda it was him.

 

[DaGaffer]

Al-Qaeda's spokesman, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, said in a video sent to al Jazeera and broadcast in October 2001 the following:

"The Americans should know that the storm of plane attacks will not abate, with God's permission. There are thousands of the Islamic nations' youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live"

 

[old.user4556]

Yeah but they're also stupid bullshitting barefaced liars. This is what blows the conspiracy theories out of the water. All the subsequent events after 9/11 show the powers that be in the US government to be incompetent as well as venal and untrustworthy, at pretty much every turn. They're just not smart enough to have pulled off 9/11 and also kept it secret. Unless you believe they deliberately behaved like they had the collective IQ of a bag of mince to keep everyone off balance, in which case you should just check yourself into a rubber room right now.

Oh I don't think for a second the US are clever enough to pull off a conspiracy on that scale given the vast numbers of eyewitnesses and mountains of visual evidence to hand. Some of the conspiracy theorists are batshit crazy forming rock solid opinion based on surmising and conjecture of evidence.

Puffs of smoke = explosives. Jesus.

My favourite example of batshitism is the hologram plane theory.

9/11 Planes were Holograms - YouTube

 

[MYstIC G]

So how did they hide the miles of wires and packs of explosives placed all over really busy office building? :|

Water coolers.

 

[Tuthmes]

Al-Qaeda's spokesman, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, said in a video sent to al Jazeera and broadcast in October 2001 the following:

"The Americans should know that the storm of plane attacks will not abate, with God's permission. There are thousands of the Islamic nations' youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live"

Your point beeing?

 

[caLLous]

Unless you believe they deliberately behaved like they had the collective IQ of a bag of mince to keep everyone off balance...

How fantastically awesome would it be if this was the case though? I don't believe it for a millisecond but it would be the most epic piece of misdirection in the history of the universe.

 

[dysfunction]

How fantastically awesome would it be if this was the case though? I don't believe it for a millisecond but it would be the most epic piece of misdirection in the history of the universe.

Well apart from getting billions of people to believe in a god...

 

[soze]

I like a good conspiracy theory. And the way the builds fell and Bin Lala getting a organ transplant at a CIA hospital both sound great.

But i can not believe they moved enough C4 into that building to do a controlled demolition with no body noticing. If the people in the building knew about it they would have talked. So the part of me that wants secret societies to rule the world wants to believe but ultimately I don't.

 

[Himse]

Erm a massive steel building shouldn't collapse due to a fire at ground level...

IF you look what I voted for, it says.. "Yes. Definitely some form of US government conspiracy.".. .. "some form"..

It just doesn't all add up, why did they let two well known al qaeda members in to the country? was it a genuine mistake or did they do it on purpose because they knew they were plotting something and the government wanted something to happen?

It could have been 100% al qaeda, but there are too many suspicious things which went on that day.

Right, It didn't collapse from fire at ground level? The fire was at the 80 something floor?

The plane flying into the building blew the lightweight fire protection from the steel, causing the steel to melt in the intense heat, thus causing the building to collapse.

Pretty simple really, any 'explosions' you see inside the building are the floors collapsing and the air pressure forcing material out of the sides.

Basically as Tom said, it's a bunch of nutters flying planes into a building, take it at face value and don't look into it, because you're wasting time.

 

[Keitanz]

Says you. What are your qualifications to make this assumption?

I will take the report of The National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Watch the documentary and you will see, some very highly qualified people also said it's not really possible.

 

[Keitanz]

Right, It didn't collapse from fire at ground level? The fire was at the 80 something floor?

The plane flying into the building blew the lightweight fire protection from the steel, causing the steel to melt in the intense heat, thus causing the building to collapse.

Pretty simple really, any 'explosions' you see inside the building are the floors collapsing and the air pressure forcing material out of the sides.

Basically as Tom said, it's a bunch of nutters flying planes into a building, take it at face value and don't look into it, because you're wasting time.

There was a 3rd tower which collapsed due to apparently "a fire at ground level"...