Do u like the translocator ??

[old.DELTA007]

Probably the fact that the instant the translocate, they'll spam the area like mad, and be fully stocked up on guns and ammo.

If you've already bipassed the Flag Room, no problem there. And if he is in the flag room behind you, he isn't at the corner waiting for you, which is always worst
And you can always lob a few rockets from where u came from to make sure no one comes from there.

Btw, a question: what do you like more? UT CTF or Q3 CTF, since I've read in 6T3 site you play both.
Yes, I know it's a evil question to put
Because if you say UT, I'll ask why you want UT to look more like Q3.
If you say Q3, I'll reply that that's why you want to make UT more like Q3

And yes, I do feel that having the TL off will make UT CTF look more like Q3 CTF, because of the need for more powerfull DM'ers than CTF'ers, because lot of the game will be about killing them first than they kill us

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I prefer UT CTF when it comes down to it. And no, I don't want UT CTF to turn into Q3 CTP (Capture The Powerup) that it's become. I play both, I enjoy both games, but I keep them totally seperate. This is clearly shown by the fact I'm a better attacker than defender at UT CTF, and a better defender than attacker at Q3 CTF. I'd just like the translocator removed because I feel it spoils a lot of the gameplay.

And you can always lob a few rockets from where u came from to make sure no one comes from there.

I'd rather not:
a) waste ammo
b) spam

I don't like firing on the possibilty of someone being there - I never fire unless I'm 95% certain that I can hit someone with it - I guess you could say I'm the Christian of UT CTF, too clean cut for my own good. I like to fight like a man

 

[old.Fred]

Where you get this crazy idea about the TL script? Pre 4.28 you could tl insanely fast either manually or with script, but it was 5-6/sec, never even close to 25/sec. Anyways, its a moot point since for over a year we have a tl that you can use max 2 times/sec, and that is controlled serverside so no matter what kind of script you have, that cant be increased.

As for the rest of the points a) its hard stopping attackers tl'ing into your base - not really, you do know where they will end up anyways. and sooner or later they have to grab your flag and cant tl. b) people can leave their tl behind and tl back - well duh, first of all the disc beeps and secondly it has a light. so if anyone leaves his disc behind for a long time or in an obvious spot vs semicompetent ppl it will be destroyed (by the competent enemy team, that is) resulting in a telefrag.

Anyways, i played normal weapons CTF without tl (and of course instagib) and if I havent mentioned it before: it sucks arse. Makes the game extremely static, and everything that makes CTF fast and dynamic is gone. Get out of the base with flag? You almost have an assured cap since no one can catch up. Stopping almost all attackers by excessive sniping on open maps - you bet. Forcing the attackers to use the same route over and over again - of course. Not to mention all the powerups that become inaccessible without extreme IH jumping. Anyways, the days of tl-wizards being indestructible is long gone, now they are very mortal if your mid and def knows what they are doing.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Fred
Anyways, i played normal weapons CTF without tl (and of course instagib) and if I havent mentioned it before: it sucks arse. Makes the game extremely static, and everything that makes CTF fast and dynamic is gone. Get out of the base with flag? You almost have an assured cap since no one can catch up.

Not if your opposition team have a competant enough midfield and attack. The team will communicate, organising ways to head off the flag carrier, which leads for a much more exciting and harder time, rather than knowing for sure you just have to run backwards and spam in the hop you'll hit someone translocating to catch up.

 

[old.DELTA007]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
I don't like firing on the possibilty of someone being there - I never fire unless I'm 95% certain that I can hit someone with it

90% of the times there will be someone there, especially on maps like Coret. For 5%, you might just lose a cap

 

[old.Gaston]

OK.

I have played in attack and defense since I started UT, and I can see where you would be coming from. However to tkae the TL from the game detracts from the whole point of CTF

If you take it out then you are then playing either i-CTF, or DM with two flags. Now if I wanted to go play insta then I would, but I dont so I play CTF. At the end of the day CTF would be far to boring, and very slow.

Why do I say that you may ask. Well consider this then. Your on lava, and the attackers take the flag, killing the defenders. Meanwhile your attackers have just been killed and are just respawned. This means that the other team will cap coz you ant catch up with him. That is unless the FC falls in the lava, but with nobody around him that is unlikely.

However the same situation with the TL. The FC cant get a minutes peace coz the enemy could catch up at any time. They can setup ambushes or attempt last gasp attacks to kill the FC. Without TL, that is not possible.

And you cant forget that CTF maps are designed with tele in mind. Many areas, and items would be unreachable without it, which kinda detracts fromt he wholepoint of the maps. Of course people could design new maps with no tele in mind. But you would end up with a shoe-box with a few poles in the middle. My, My wouldn't THAT be intresting.

And dont forget that to remove the TL, would mean more than half the players would give up CTF, and most likely UT all together. If you want to kill UT CTF then your idea is a good one.

But personnaly I rather like my CTF, so I suggest that if you want to improve it, you come up with a suggestion that makes sense.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by DELTA007

90% of the times there will be someone there, especially on maps like Coret. For 5%, you might just lose a cap

I'd rather lose knowing I've played well, and totally fairly and skillfully than win knowing that I'd spammed and that helped me cap.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Gaston
OK.

I have played in attack and defense since I started UT, and I can see where you would be coming from. However to tkae the TL from the game detracts from the whole point of CTF

If you take it out then you are then playing either i-CTF, or DM with two flags. Now if I wanted to go play insta then I would, but I dont so I play CTF. At the end of the day CTF would be far to boring, and very slow.

Why do I say that you may ask. Well consider this then. Your on lava, and the attackers take the flag, killing the defenders. Meanwhile your attackers have just been killed and are just respawned. This means that the other team will cap coz you ant catch up with him. That is unless the FC falls in the lava, but with nobody around him that is unlikely.

However the same situation with the TL. The FC cant get a minutes peace coz the enemy could catch up at any time. They can setup ambushes or attempt last gasp attacks to kill the FC. Without TL, that is not possible.

And you cant forget that CTF maps are designed with tele in mind. Many areas, and items would be unreachable without it, which kinda detracts fromt he wholepoint of the maps. Of course people could design new maps with no tele in mind. But you would end up with a shoe-box with a few poles in the middle. My, My wouldn't THAT be intresting.

And dont forget that to remove the TL, would mean more than half the players would give up CTF, and most likely UT all together. If you want to kill UT CTF then your idea is a good one.

But personnaly I rather like my CTF, so I suggest that if you want to improve it, you come up with a suggestion that makes sense.

In regards to Lava: You've left out midfield. you don't stand a chance of winning Lava if you don't have 2 midfielders... using plural for attackers and defenders implies that you're ignoring midfield... With 2 midfielders, 2 defense and one out and out attacker (who's helped by the midfielders when making timed attacks). This way when someone does have your flag, and has killed your defense, and your attack, you're most likely to still have one out there in battle fully loaded. And the FC has a long way to go before they're in there clear, and I think you'll not the strong presence of the sniper rifle on this map, it's more than easy for one or two people who have just respawned to grab the rifle and shoot off his head.

I do like the way a lot of players have played CTF all their life, and complain that taking the translocator will remove from the essence of CTF, when it's only a new thing (in regards to CTF), and you'll be detracting from CTF as a whole by taking it out.

And saying that maps without the translocator will be a box with poles in the middle. Think about a map that isn't this - all maps are a whole with stuff added into them - you'll know this if you ever learn/try to map. The translocator isn't designed, as I've clearly stated to be used in the way it IS used, and is used to reach certain places that would normally be hard to get to.

And if half the people playing UT would quit due to the removal of the translocator, what does that say for the level of skill in the game?

 

[old.DELTA007]

If you go by that way, you can't pump up rockets unless you see anyone. You won't be sure if the enemy will be behind the corner your about to go through do you? There's spam and there's SPAM.
Like keep firing at the Coret door with the shock rifle...
But lobbing a few rockets to cover your ass while u run for your life isn't that bad, or skill less, or anything bad

 

[old.Gaston]

right my logic might have been flawed but so is yours.

Ok even if they did have say 1-2 man midfield. By the time that they know where the FC is, and move off to block him then the FC is more than likely past them. And if you say there is a mid, then they aint gonna just be able to stand there and shoot if the other clan has a mid of its own. And yes the sniper would play a big part, but by the time you respawn, get the sniper rilfe, aim at the FC and fire then hes most likely gone and they will cap.

The simple fact is for everythign you say about the TL, someone can come along and say somethign else. I suggest if you dont want a tele, you play i-CTF. And as far as I know the tele aint a knew thing in CTF. Its been here a long time, and askign clans to give it up would be stupid. Yes it can be abused, but then so can almost anythign in the game. If you want rid of the tele I suggest you tkae out spam as well, coz inadvertenly thats what would happen. 3 men def spamming with flak to stop attackers coz they know if they die then there in big trouble. CTF without a tele is like DM without Deck-16. Silly and altogether pretty pointless.

BTW I am not disagreing with you on the fact that it can be used in the wrong way. But then for every minus point you come up with, some1 can come up with a plus. And for those who say tele is crap, well thats your opinion. But take it out, and youd ruin the best part of UT, which is CTF.

 

[old.Fred]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk

I do like the way a lot of players have played CTF all their life, and complain that taking the translocator will remove from the essence of CTF, when it's only a new thing (in regards to CTF), and you'll be detracting from CTF as a whole by taking it out.

Of course CTF was not the most popular mod in all the quakes, half-lifes (i know TFC has ctf, but there you have different classes with different speed to negate the "def will never catch up with the fc" issue). Only other game where CTF is most popular other then UT is Tribes, but there you have jetpacks and vehicles to intercept the fc. So perhaps the equation: every mistake doesnt equal enemy cap has something to it that attracts people. I know that when MC plays well and communicates to ambush a FC, its kinda nice. On the other hand if we were to lose loads of caps because all our players move at the exact same speed as the enemy fc (=out of sight equals cap) it would be boring. I am not saying it would take out the essence of CTF, but it would be a much slower and watered down version of it. Much like the quake3 ctf. Of course they decided to throw in relics to spice things up, and I think most would agree that didnt help an already bad situation much.

As for midfield. many clans play with 3 mid/attack on most maps (most clans have a slightly different strat for dreary, but apart from that). Some clans opt for a 2-2-1 setup. Having the TL included does in no way take away the need for good midfielding, I would say it increases the demand on them, since they have to make sure no one intercepts our fc on the way home (yes, even if they start with a 3 sec delay).

Be careful for what you wish for, it may come true

 

[old.Kez]

Having read very little of this thread (UT doesn't really interest me any longer) I'll keep my (slightly invalidated) opinions (having not played since the first private aimbot was around and known) short as possible.

The translocator was, for quite some time, an enhancement to the game rather than a distraction and annoyance, but as time has gone on, more people have become reliant on it (assumedly this is still so, I can't see people giving up such an exploitable tool) and less on actual fighting (firing the translocator really is using first person shooter in the loosest possible terms)
While I don't like it, its an unavoidable part of the game now. I certainly think a mutator that changes the TL for a grapple would be a welcome thing for some people (myself included, provided it was a good quality one, and not some shoddy half baked thing)

To be brutally honest, there are far too many lame things that are doable with the TL to make me favour it (though most of the UT players do favour it for those very reasons) - and while you'd get inevitable grapple monkeys if switched, there's far less lame things by comparison.

(I honestly don't think this made any sense, as I've just woken up, read wazz's column [be thankful, its the only one I read], and am slightly slow [yay alcohol] - I don't even think I am making the same point I'd intended)

 

[old.Kez]

Oh, and I wish Q3 had a grapple (and slightly less toss LPB-orientated netcode)

 

[old.Upham]

 

[Testin da Cable]

Originally posted by Kez
[
(I honestly don't think this made any sense, as I've just woken up, read wazz's column [be thankful, its the only one I read], and am slightly slow [yay alcohol] - I don't even think I am making the same point I'd intended)

made sense to me, but I've only just gotten up too

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Kez has a point - at least people can hit you if you use a grapple.

And yes, the translocator malarky has gone too far and players are totally reliant on it's over use, it's a lot worse than it ever was back in the good old days.

 

[old.DELTA007]

Grapple... 1 Atacker and 4 defenders, because he only has to get the flag and graple himself out of there... reducing alot of the game fighting! So if you say you're against the TL because it reduces fighting, you can't really support this (Q2 CTF... eek!).

I, and I'm sure lots of other people that play UT CTF, have little problems in shooting someone while he's using the TL, if they don't do it smart enough, either with a Shock Combo, a Shock primary, a Minigun, a sniper, a pulse gun, a rocket to where he's going to land, sometimes even with an enforcer, or why not a secondary flak shot ?
A guy using the TL is someone that is harder to hit, but that offers no resistance, (unlike a dodging sniper, which sometimes are even harder to hit) unless you let him get close enough to you to telefrag.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I don't want a grapple at all, I don't like it - I am just saying that it has a redeemer factor over the translocator because it is possible to properly hit the player using it. And when it comes to players not translocating smart enough, that just doesn't happen. It's got to the stage where it's nigh on impossible to hit or predict the movement.

 

[old.Duck-Tape_(uk)]

It's got to the stage where it's nigh on impossible to hit or predict the movement.

Have to agree with u there m8, people use the translocator SO well that u cannot hit them ever! At least with the redeemer u can...

I only play Instagib mainly because that most servers have the translocator, otherwise I would play both!

 

[old.DELTA007]

It's got to the stage where it's nigh on impossible to hit or predict the movement.

Not really

 

[old.corran]

tl

Having been playing UT since the demo days like most ppl. The use of the Tl has changed drastically, for the worse i might add.
A lot of skill has been lost now, on ppls utter reliance of the trans. Ppl are now not content with tl to base to get there quicker (which is fine imo, and is needed), but once there, they like to translocate like a mad bast in and around the base often not fighting or making any attempt to go for flag. Now to me this is boring as hell and shows the lack of skill on the players part to use weapons. This is where the overuse of the trans has spoilt the game.
I agree the trans makes utctf a better game and more hectic, but sooner or l8r ppl wont bother using weps anymore as they will just zip about map with the tl. (very extreme case )

Oh btw u can get a grapple in q3ctf using the classic ctf mod (cctf} which is a lot better game than vanilla q3ctf (which imo is dm with 2 flags).

And like what has been said before the grapple is a better form of movement as u are always vunerable, wheras with the trans u are invincible part of the time.


Oh and btw, these are my opinions, and everyone is entitled to them, Wazzaphuk, delta inc. and thus no one should bother insulting or flaming that persons POV, Just coz he has an opinion that u dont agree with.

 

[old.Fubs]

Well - the TL is an important part of UT CTF - taking it out would ruin the game. You say the TL requires no skil, but a grapple monkey has even less.

TL has its disadvantages - I've lost count how many times i have relised that im in a situation where i have to fight, and died while switching away from the TL.

TLing across the map is regular - and people have learnt to adapt to it (except you) - I cand stan half way up one of the two paths on Face (1/4 of the way across the level), spot someone TLing across the Map, and nail them squarely with a combo at long range.

Also you can use the TL to catch up with and head off the flag carrier - simply by moving faster than they can, or by taking shortcuts they cant.

The only problem i have with the TL is telefragging - you can grap the SB and Keg, having 150 armor+199 health, well stocked up to escape with the flag. You grab the flag, and 5 seconds later some guy Telefrags you. It hard to stop someone who is trying to Telefrag you, as they can be on any side at any moment. I know clans whose entire defense relies on telefragging the FC.

You grab the flag and see there entire team TLing towards you to try to telefrag, and ther eis little you can do.

I say you should chage it to one shot every second - that would slow it down to an acceptable speed. You can still do the double Teleport at that speed as well.

 

[old.corran]

hmmm

Well - the TL is an important part of UT CTF - taking it out would ruin the game. You say the TL requires no skil, but a grapple monkey has even less.

Where did i say to take it out?, I didnt, I merely pointed out that an overuse of the tl is now occuring.
Also i didnt say the grapple took more skill, i simply said that u can be hit all the time, and not dissapear/reappear and not get hit at certain times.

TLing across the map is regular - and people have learnt to adapt to it (except you)

Here u are just stating what i said , getting across the map is where the tl becomes useful. The bit in the brackets i assume means im a skillless twat, Where in my post did i say i cant deal with it, i can most definitly deal with it, what i said was that it was boring as hell, seeing someone trans around the base like a coward many now do.


However I agree with the rest of ure points telefragging is a bitch and reducing the amount of times u can trans in a second would help also, as u will still be able to move faster across the map and cut off the efc.

 

[old.Brayna]

I agree with Corran ( ) that the TL has already started to be over-used and putting some contraints on it would, in my opinion, do the game a whole load of good in terms of tactics and teamplay.

LPBs have a big advantage over HPBs whereas the HPB can't TL as fast as some and therefore can't get from one place to another as effectively. Yeah - HPBs are at a disadvantage anyway because of their ping, but (being a HPB before), they can cope and learn to play with their disadvantage and use it to their benefit. They can't, however, ever use the TL to their advantage 'cause it just don't work!

Having 2 attackers TL and run circles around you while you waste your ammo on them is also frustrating... before you know it you've only got the enforcer and you see 5 rockets coming at you.

And there is NO SKILL in TLing very, very fast getting from one base to the other. Lets face it... abusing the TL doesn't require much skill... you fire and alternate fire, fire and alternate fire, fire and... you catch my drift. Telefragging with the TL needs some skill because you have to at least AIM a bit and anticipate the enemy's moves.

However, I'm definately against getting the TL out of CTF altogether. I often play Insta and there's nothing more frustating than getting killed by the EFC and respawning miles behind him - there's absolutely no way of catching up!

There probably won't be a solution to this problem (for those who think it is a problem), because its very difficult in finding that fine balance between using the TL normally or abusing it - but a further delay on it would be a step closer to sorting out the problems of over-use.

 

[old.Jools]

tl'inng

I have to reply to Fubs message.
How long have you been playin ut?

"Well - the TL is an important part of UT CTF - taking it out would ruin the game"

Gross over statement. no it wouldnt. it woulod change it, not ruin it. Look at it this way, how often do you see a ame developer release a patch which alters the effect ofn one of then weapons in a game - VERY rarely - but it happened with the tl - having a delay added to it because ppl were spamming it all round the map and destroying the game.

"TLing across the map is regular - and people have learnt to adapt to it (except you) - I cand stan half way up one of the two paths on Face (1/4 of the way across the level), spot someone TLing across the Map, and nail them squarely with a combo at long range. "

rofl dont make me laugh. face is one map out of many. I have played a stack load of games on closed in, tight maps where the opposition have no weapon skill at all, they have purely practiced spamming the tl about the map, taking the flag and dropping it and tl'ing the minute they see an oppponent.

see how much enjoyment you get playing against that .

I suggest Fubs, before you start "slating "people for not adapting to shit tactics and lame skill, you think a little bit more about "what actually makes a fun, close, competitive game"

I've seen entire clanms swap over to tl spamming tactics, and i dont care if they beat the clan i am in. i won't adopt those tactics, no one in my clan adopts those tactics, cos they are just shjit really. I pr3efer to lose to a clan and p-layers who can nail my ass with the RL 9 times out of ten. then i can truly say they have excellent skill and really know how to duel, how to fight.. anyhting less is like having a shit army on your side but being prepared tyo use chemicval weapons cos you don't give a monkeys how youwin a war.

the proof of the pudding is in the fact that the bw normal ctf servers are totally enmtpy most of the time now, unlike 4 months ago, but now you are lucky to get a space on an instagib server where most ppl go cos the lame shit tactics are drastically reduced.

and yes i hjave been in a UT clan since the demo came out so don't even think of calling me an unexperienced newbie twat.

 

[old.Gaston]

I dont see the problem here. You lot are talking about how hard it is to hit somebody if they tele about you like mad. The only problem I have is that it lowers my FPS, and slows UT to a crawl, but hey I have adapted to that. TBH you lot saying its HARD to hit some1 using the TL around you is stupid. IMO it makes them easier to hit. I have never, and this is since the demo days BTW seen anybody that is impossible to hit. Infact I find them to be quite predicatable and an easy kill. If some1 does the TL around me, I pull out my RL, and BLAM, most likely they die in mid tele. Not hard, and an easy kill for me. Also if some1 teles across the map, so what? "o they are to hard to hit" Where abouts? You can see the disc, you know where they are going, pull out your shock and combo. If you miss you miss, but most likely you will hit the guys tele, OR you will make him run a mile.

Your all saying tele spoils the game. The simple fact is that I dotn see how. "O but ppl can tele punt and use scripts to make it faster"

LOL

Yes you can, and yes its lame. But then may as well remove flak and shock as well. Remember the days ppl never knew about shock combos. Then they learned. "O u suck" or "lamer" was coomon on server when u got combod. Now ppl know it and they ADAPT. And BTW not forgetting you can get shock scripts as well.
Better remove it or tone it down in that case. And while we are at at, lets remove flak, coz of its ability to spam etc."ack u skilles cunt, jsut spaming flak" or "you flak newby".
Better take it out then, coz its to hard to kill somebody spamming the corridors in coret.

How stupid does the above sound. Very I know. But then, your arguemnts about the tele is just as stupid. Face it, no matter what game you play, no matter what weapon you use, then someone, somewhere will learn to abuse it, or twist it.

This argument, like the flak is spammy, shock combos suck, or RL shouldnt be able to load rockets is stupid. If ppl like you got your way we would all be running around maps with an enforcer that can fire one bullet every five seconds. Now THATS intresting gaming, is it not?

A pointless argument, this. Coz at the end of the day you would turn CTF into DM with two flags, or i-CTF. You want to play DM or insta, fine, go pla it, but dont think about turning CTF, the best part of UT in any of these.

 

[old.DELTA007]

True, true Gaston... adaption is a very imporant part of any game...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Adaptation is a good, and important factor of any game. Adapting so far as to abuse the game in such a way it makes it grossly unfair to the other players is not.

TBH you lot saying its HARD to hit some1 using the TL around you is stupid. IMO it makes them easier to hit. [/QUOTE

That is possibly the funniest thing I have ever read. It's so clearly wrong in so many places I don't even know where to begin.

Well - the TL is an important part of UT CTF - taking it out would ruin the game.

No, it really wouldn't. As Jools said public server use, particularly that on the BarrysWorld servers is now at a minimum, because people would like to play on a level playing field, and not have to deal with a million and one flies buzzing around them. It also really puts off newbies to coming to the game. A lot of people have problems with newbies, but why? Everyone was a newbie once, and just because they're joining later than you - this gives you no divine right over them to start insulting them. They'll go somewhere else, and not bother, as they'd like to be able to have fun and play a good, fair game of UT CTF - something that doesn't happen any more, thanks to the translocator.

 

[old.RookieWan]

The TL is part of 'classic' UTCTF as the grapple was for Q2CTF. I've played a LOT of Q2CTF be4 UT came out and at the high point of Q2CTF it was:
- a control for the power ups
- having the best grapple monkey.

The 1st part was always highly tactical, even with the timers and .wavs used.
The 2nd part ruined Q2CTF for me. A well trained monkey could with a 4 man defense cap flags :sleeping:

Thus when UT came out with the TL instead of a grapple I was happy and since the revent patch to stop the lame TL scripts I found UTCTF to be better than Q2CTF in:
- fun
- playability
- pace

I've played a few games of iCTF recently, the only reason why I played it because I was curious if it was any good.
FYI, it's pretty boring! If the nme is lucky and get can get past all your players, there's no way to prevent a cap. Also, because it takes AGES to get from one base to the other, only the small maps are useful, because otherwise people fall asleep. It does have it charm, but not on difficult maps though, play iCTF on maps like Niven, not on 'complex' maps like Lava Giant. And tbh, iCTF in UT is just as boring as Q3CTF... DF played I think 2 league games Q3CTF be4 we found UTCTF to be much more satisfying

TL off -> would add more teamplay to the game??? Why? During a flag stand off, the team with best support and mid play, can hold off nme attackers long enough to return the own flag. If your mid play sux, the other team comes TL-ing in to return their flag. On a map like Face even more so than on any other map.

On attack I really curse the SR combo wh0res who take out my TL in mid air for a telefrag. It just means I came in too easy, and should rethink my attack route or I should put some bullets into the mid players barring my way. Or our mid/ support players need to come up and help attack get into their base.

The TL is well balanced (certainly now the scripts don't work), it adds loads of pace and speed to the game. Using the TL doesn't mean instant caps. So I have no idea why it should be off???

Wazzer if u want to play without TL go ahead, please do. If you want to be a moral knight amongst the barbarians of UTCTF players by playing it clean, you really should do that. I'll stick with my TL and predictive Rocket spamming etc. UTCTF as fellow clan member RookieToo mentioned it is 65% thinking and outsmarting the other team, 25% skillz and 10% luck. Using the TL falls under all 3 catagories, you try to outsmart the nme by having him think you're going somewhere else with TL, you try to use the TL as skilled as possible and you hope the TL isn't blasted to bits or falls into the lava/ space...

 

[old.RookieWan]

I also think Jools has a point regarding the cheating in the game, but cheating in UT does not mean it's all due to the evil TL. It just means there are muppets out there who stop to nothing to win, and use every silly trick they can to win. If this means cheating their ass off, they'll do it. It's sad, but unfortunately the constant updating of CHSP is evidence of the way some people think they should play a game.
uke:

And saying the public CTF servers are empty, hence the majority of players don't like cheating is BS imho In the few spare moments I have time to play, I try to get on the Gamepoint CTF servers ( Dutch servers). A lot of Europe's best players come there, but the 2 servers I have in my favorites are packed solid with players and specs most of the time. The BW publics have outdated CHSP, thus when some1 aims very well or has good skillz there are always muppets saying this player is using a bot... The best way to clear a server IMHO, next to using a bot... I played a iCTF game a while ago on a server with a recent version of CHSP, but there was some1 using a bot... Thus, even the clean iCTF has it's cheaters.