Do u like the translocator ??

[old.Gaston]

That is possibly the funniest thing I have ever read. It's so clearly wrong in so many places I don't even know where to begin.

Well you could try. Look I dont know about you, but I have never found anyone buzzing around me like a maniac, and impossible target to hit. I mean comon ffs, you know that they are trying to tele you, so you know what they are aiming for, so it makes them predicatable in a sense.

You know I remember something Purity in my clan told me, and TBH this has more meaning here than anything.

Flak is ANNOYING, not lame.
Shock wh0res are ANNOYING, not lame.
Tele twats are ANNOYING, not lame.

Yes they are annoying, but its not lame. What is lame is stuff like tele punting etc. Tho you could look at it from the other side of the scale, and say that telepunting brought out new ways to cross face and attack etc. Ppl learned to adapt the use of the tele into that.

And to say this is all you see on servers, well I must say I disagree with that. I must be blind, or play on thw rong servers then. Yes I see a few, but not as many as you make out there is. And you talk as if this is new to UT. well patch, 432 I belive has been out for ages. And I have never classes this as a problem. IT was bad before the patch, but now I think its at an acceptable level. Either that or I have adapted to it.

IMO tele is not lame, its annoying.

 

[old.Fred]

If ppl try to go for the telefrag all the time, I will kill them much more then they kill me. And if they just try to zip by the defense all the time, they will die often.

I never thought of it as a problem with attackers using the tl, if you use prediction you know where they throw the disc all the time (on small maps) or have ample time to combo them (big maps). Additionally they cant damage you (except a telefrag, but that is pretty rare that people get deliberate ones) while you often can do damage to them, seriously lessening their survival chances to survive once they get the flag.

If you find a translocating attacker impossible to kill or hurt, I think you are going about it the wrong way (shooting where we is, instead of where he is going?). I know that the MC attackers and the attackers of the teams we meet get killed loads while using the tl. They would hardly agree with the invincible part at all I suspect. As a def I have never had a problem with the tl, it speeds up the game loads, give me as a defender the opportunity to play much more dynamic, allows my team to cut off flagcarriers without any support with ease and it has prevented loads of boring 0-0 matches for sure.

Anyways, feel free to try iCTF and see how poorly the maps play without the TL. I feel truly sorry for those that are into instagib, that the maps are so poorly suited for their preferred mod.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by Gaston
IMO tele is not lame, its annoying.

So you set out to be annoying do you? Skills!

I've never made it out to be a new thing, all I've said is that it has been getting progressively worse and more extreme - which it has done.

Originally posted by Fred
I know that the MC attackers and the attackers of the teams we meet get killed loads while using the tl. They would hardly agree with the invincible part at all I suspect.

In fairness, I've seen a few MC matches, and you don't use the translocator in such an extreme way as many clans do. Also, being a top level clan that you are, you generally play against a much higher standard of defenders than the majority play against. These defenders are top class - and not everyone IS as good as these people, so naturally, they're going to be a lot better at doing their job than others. Not everyone can be as good as this, no matter how much practice, so I feel this is a bad example to use on the whole.

I've also never said it makes people invincible, I've only said that it makes people VERY hard to hit, and that it's the coward's way out.

 

[old.DELTA007]

These defenders are top class - and not everyone IS as good as these people, so naturally, they're going to be a lot better at doing their job than others.

Same goes for atackers m8, if you play atackers from a lower level clan, they probably won't try to avoid the blue light so many times and\or so efectively

 

[Wij]

As a defender I generally found t/l'ing attackers no more difficult to deal with than someone attacking any other way. It's just different. It provids the attacker with more options and forces the defender to think more but that's no bad thing. In the early CTF days before attackers really got to grips with the t/l I found defending could sometimes be a boring, campy job. Once the attackers had more options it kept me on my toes and made it a real cat and mouse, fast chasing game Who wants to sit there spamming ? The attacker t/l's somewhere around me and I have to adapt and fight toe to toe rather than just spamming a corridor or sniping from distance.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but my opinion is that the t/l was one of the main reasons UT CTF really grabbed me. It kept a real fast pace in the game

 

[old.Gaston]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk


So you set out to be annoying do you? Skills!

where abouts did I say I done it?
/me looks back at his previous posts....
o I see I never.

It was a general statement on the way people use it, and it is annoying when ppl fly around you at a gizzilion mph. But then thats all it is, annoying.

And I mean if you were to take out the tele what would you replace it with? Nothing? If so then how boring would a game be. So boring and slow the defenders would probaly fall asleep half way thru.

The tele is a dynamic part of CTF, and makes it what it is. Without it, well ive already said what I think it would become.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but my opinion is that the t/l was one of the main reasons UT CTF really grabbed me. It kept a real fast pace in the game

Totally agree. 100%

Tele ownzerz joo

 

[old.Kez]

To be fair (in response to those people who insisted on bringing up the flak & shock issues) if I had my way, UT wouldn't have most of its weapons, due to their downright skankness. Infact, if I had my way, it'd just have every cunting thing replaced with QW weapons. As would Q3. It'd be the dawn of a new age, in an old era. (or something)

Which is why I don't play it

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Gaston:

So you're saying you don't translocate around the map?

And secondly, I've played 666, and you lot are some of the worst translocators in the over-use respect as a clan I've ever come across, so it didn't surprise me that you keep jumping to defend it.

 

[old.DELTA007]

Wazzerphuk, can you give me one or two clear examples of what you consider abusing the TL ? Can be on specific maps, etc

 

[old.g-stoic]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
Gaston:

So you're saying you don't translocate around the map?

And secondly, I've played 666, and you lot are some of the worst translocators in the over-use respect as a clan I've ever come across, so it didn't surprise me that you keep jumping to defend it.

Hmm I played 666 a lot of times too, and imo they weren't over-using the TL in comparison with (a lot of) other clans I played against.

I think this discussion is like those in pubs about religion and stuff. Some believe, some don't and a few actually go to the other side . I hope you're one of those few Wazz , but I won't force you into it .

I think Epic already did a great job by reducing the amount of tele's per second. But appearently they didn't think of eliminating it - may be they had a valid reason...?

I do agree that there are muppets out there on publix (especially on Lava) jumping around the base like a rabbit on steroids without actually being effective other than annoying. It's fun though to combo their disc. And you won't see those rabbits in clanwars anwyay (I hope ).

I do not see any valid reason to remove the tele. It was already a hard job to get adopted to the newer tele once. Removing it will surely halfsize the UT community imo. But hey these are my opinions so feel free to argue them.

{G}Stoic - a Gibber - http://gibbers.moonfruit.com

 

[old.RookieWan]

Wazzer, u aren't reading what people are writing, your slagging other peoples thoughts.

Do what Delta asks and come up with atleast 2 examples why the TL should be banned.

 

[old.g-stoic]

He did...

Originally posted by RookieWan
Wazzer, u aren't reading what people are writing, your slagging other peoples thoughts.

Do what Delta asks and come up with atleast 2 examples why the TL should be banned.

He obviously gave some examples in his column, but those are very very subjective. If you'd poll in the UT community (especially CTF) I'm sure a majority (by far) will disagree with even changing the physics of the TL as they are currently, let alone removing it.

Please let us play in peace - we have great fun with UT CTF as it is now (at least I do, and yes I am aware this is very subjective too ). Those who dislike the TL, it's simple, just don't use it - as I try to avoid using the flak for example .

 

[old.Scum]

First off, I should be honest about where I'm coming from: a DM player who retrained as a CTF defender because his clan took a decision to concentrate on CTF. So I'm slightly biased against the TL as it's not a manly way to fight

Having said that, I don't advocate removal of the TL or changing it, because it's too late for that. I have learned to cope with the TL spammers - combo whoring is a necessity for defenders.

I have a couple of ideas for the TL:

1. In team games, telepunting could be eliminated if a team's fire damaged their own translocators. Players would not be able to launch their or a teammate's disk across the map as it would result in a telefrag. Players might also have to be a bit more judicious when spamming around their own teammates.

This second one is pretty contentious and I wouldn't attempt to impose this on anyone. It's really an idea that could have been explored when most people were not adept with the TL. Changing the behaviour of the TL shouldn't be done at this late stage:

2. Give the TL a charge that is reduced by firing and recharges over time. That would force attackers to at least have a go at the defenders, as they would not be able to spam about the base with the TL indefinitely. In order to make it possible for defenders to catch up with/cut off the EFC, the amount of charge used per shot would be need to be -independent- of the distance travelled. The recharge rate and discharge-per-shot should be set so that by launching the TL a long way each time, it would -never- become empty of charge. However, spamming it quickly around somebody to confuse them and waste their ammo would quickly empty the charge.

These are just ideas. Don't bother flaming me as the TL is a religious issue. The fact that you disagree with somebody's opinions does not make them bullshit.

 

[old.[RSi]Stanley]

Please let us play in peace - we have great fun with UT CTF as it is now

Well said Stoic, this is by far the most valid point made on the subject. Gaston makes some excellent points as well. Its off to iCTF for you TL haters

I apologise for saying Wazzerphuk's opinion is BullShit, what I should have said was I TOTALLY disagree. Sorry Whazz

 

[Wij]

OK, so we agree to disagree. Most UT CTF players quite like the translocator (that's why they play UT CTF) but some aren't entirely convinced. Difference of opinion that's all. We're all entitled to our opinion about what aspects of the game we like (except Wazz )

 

[Wazzerphuk]

People are becoming judgemental and jumping to conclusions without researching what I've said here:

I've never said to ban the translocator, I've merely stated the opinion that I dislike it intensly, and I feel that the game would be better off without it. If you want two reasons for it to be banned, I'm sure if you used your brain and actually read my column properly, you would see at least 3 or 4 reasons that I feel it should be "banned". When I don't.

Delta: Over use of translocator. Translocating around like a fucking fly on speed with the intent of going nowhere, and using it to cut out midfield entirely when forming an attack.

g-stoic: total atheist, but that's not the issue

Please let you play in peace? Um, I think you'll find I wrote a column on something I feel about - this isn't interrupting your games of CTF in the slightest. If I was putting to cryton that it should be removed, or I started a petition to remove it from the league, THEN I would be interfering. I never knew having an opinion was interfering.

 

[old.Gaston]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
Gaston:

So you're saying you don't translocate around the map?

And secondly, I've played 666, and you lot are some of the worst translocators in the over-use respect as a clan I've ever come across, so it didn't surprise me that you keep jumping to defend it.

I will make it clear and simple for you. What I said was that I do not overly abuse the tele like some ppl. But yes I will admit that I use it. And no call me lame if you want coz your opinion on me matters nothing. I will ALWAYS use tele to cross fromone side of the map to the other, will use it to get somewhere quick, or make a quick escape if I need to. All I can say to you is - i dont care

And further more, you are obviosuly just pickign up oncertain posts. You seem to take everythign ive said and riduculed it etc. Well whatever gives you your kicks eh.

"And secondly, I've played 666, and you lot are some of the worst translocators in the over-use respect as a clan I've ever come across."

Nice insult. You obviously have not come across very many clans then.

End of the day, I care jack about what you think of me, and jack what you think about 666. Nver ever have I heard anybody say what you said above. I can see your point, and I disagreed, but hey I guess you always got to be right.

I am entitled to my opinion, and you yours. IMO yours make no sense, and would spoil CTF.

I will say no more (ok lies I will prob say more )

 

[old.Masenko]

*sigh*

look at the clans and players that wont TL off.......Why? cause u aint good enough to get past decent players? or ur just shit with it? and why is that fool from 6t3 slagging 666 off? ur crap, newbie flak spamming foolz

 

[old.Mud]

Wazz are you accusing people of movement?

 

[old.Masenko]

also, something called Antcipation. if u can do this, u can easly kill some 1 TL'ing, use ur brain!. if u take it out, trust me, alot of the good clans will leave BW. nothing pisses me off more then being TL'ed when i got SB and 199 health, but i dont cry, i just combo his TL when he gets to my base . some 1 said something about wasteing ammo trying to hit ENM TL'ing around then...........learn how to aim then!!, that way u dont waste ammo, all ur doing is spamming

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Firstly I'd like to make one thing clear: I've not slagged off 666, from what I know of them they're decent blokes etc, I merely said that I feel they over use the translocator.

Gaston: If you care so little, why do you continue posting stating how much you just don't care?

"You obviously have not come across very many clans then." - Been in the scene since day 1, been in numerous clans, and admin leagues. I've seen more than most people have.

Masenko: I'll be happy to respond to this post if it's rectified to make some kind of sense. And I haven't been slagging 666 off, if it came out like I did, I apologise - it wasn't intended that way. There's no need to be slagging 6T3 off when you have no reason to either, it just casues more problems. This is a Unreal Tourney forum - if you want flame wars go check the Something Awful flame forum.

Mud: "Wazz are you accusing people of movement?" <-- Couldn't stop laughing at this one. Go read up on what I've written about the translocator in my column. I'm also willing to bet you haven't read the forum fully. Come back and say something constructive, please.

Masenko, again: I don't know how many times I've said this, but I've never said to take it out of league games, I simply stated I would prefer it without - this is my OPINION, I'm not pressing it on anyone, I'm just making it known.

 

[old.SU3000]

I just think the clicks of the xloc are really addictive, and therefore should be done often & fast

 

[old.Scum]

Re: *sigh*

Originally posted by Masenko
look at the clans and players that wont TL off.......Why? cause u aint good enough to get past decent players? or ur just shit with it? and why is that fool from 6t3 slagging 666 off? ur crap, newbie flak spamming foolz

You can privately hold whatever opinion you like about another clan. By all means, though, slag off 6T3 for no good reason on a public forum if you like to look like a foolish geekarsed twat who can't keep his mouth shut.

 

[old.g-stoic]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk

g-stoic: total atheist, but that's not the issue

LOL, how did you know

 

[old.g-stoic]

Attempt to be a bit more constructive this time

Okiez.. Well, I'll try to be a bit more constructive this time , though it will actually be merely a destructive comment on your column, your words Wazz, so be prepared .

Here follow a couple of phrases from your column; don't get me wrong, I'm not quoting this without context, though most of them don't need a context:

Now though, and this has been the case for a good while, things are all the different, and the translocator actually totally ruins the game for a lot of people, and removes the essence of CTF – the fighting your way in and out of the enemy base to get the flag.

In my opinion the essence of CTF is Capture the Flag; hence the acronym C T F . It's, e.g., not called R A M B O . But seriously, it's about capturing the flag. In this game the TL can be used to get to the enemy flag/base quicker, to be able to chase the enemy flag carrier, to be able to get to your flag carrier quicker, etc.. This makes the game more dynamic and puts in a lot of action in my opinion; note the keyword "quick". Without the TL the game wouldn't be as fast. Why more action you would say. Well with action I really mean fighting. You are at the place of action (enemy base, midfield, enemy flag carrier, flag carrier) more faster, and in effect results in more battles (especially in open areas).

May be it feels that way, and to actually "measure" it we need two wars; one with and one without the TL. Also, all players need to be wired up to test the adrenaline... just kidding .

People have learnt to use the translocator in such a way that they can get to the enemy base without ever having to combat or fight anyone, and with relative ease. Now, when you get 3 attackers running (or should I say flying) into your base, and they’re all practically impossible to hit, this takes a huge amount of run out of the game. Translocator use like this is no longer a tactical enhancement; it’s the coward’s way out of winning a map. Master the translocator (not a very hard thing to do) and you’re sure of making it to the enemy base in just a few quick seconds, with full health and, if applicable, armour.

In my opinion, if the flag carrier (to be) is not healthy enough most games will end 0-0. Being healthy from top to toe doesn't guarantee a cap either. Do you really think, that someone (because of his "elite" skills) can enter the base healthy enough to actually return to his/her own base with the enemy flag? Even with enough backup? Imagine: you are the flag carrier to be, you battle your way through into the enemy base, have barely health, would you really dare to pick up the flag? In order to realise a cap in such way, the layout of the maps should drastically change, like more (frequent) powerups/health would be needed in my opinion.

The translocator wasn’t designed for this. Its purpose is to open up new areas of maps, and if used sparingly and tactically, it can really enhance the game.

You speak as if you were the designer of the game. The TL, among other things, can be used to open up new areas for sure. But it also can be used to explore new tactics: the way to get into enemy base; this very purpose enhances the game even more in my opinion.

Some players drop their translocator onto the flag floor, so that when an enemy takes the flag, they can translocate immediately back to base, and attack the flag carrier. What’s worse is the fact that if done quickly enough, you can actually telefrag the flag carrier without any skill or effort required.

As an attacker (which I'm not), before picking up the flag I would explore the surroundings of the flag (and yes, you do have enough time if you use your TL wisely ). A TL bacon beeps and has a light. So you can barely miss it in my opinion. Eliminating a TL bacon is easy as you know. Moreover, it requires very much skill to actually telefrag the enemy flag carrier in the manner you describe .

That's all

 

[Wij]

Re: Attempt to be a bit more constructive this time

Originally posted by g-stoic
As an attacker (which I'm not), before picking up the flag I would explore the surroundings of the flag (and yes, you do have enough time if you use your TL wisely ). A TL bacon beeps and has a light. So you can barely miss it in my opinion. Eliminating a TL bacon is easy as you know. Moreover, it requires very much skill to actually telefrag the enemy flag carrier in the manner you describe .

TL bacon

hehe, sorry m8

Telefragging an nme fc is indeed always a tricky thing to do (unless he's a real n00b) and should be treated as an excellent piece of defending not a skilless abuse of the TL.

 

[old.g-stoic]

Re: Re: Attempt to be a bit more constructive this time

Originally posted by Wij

TL bacon

LOL yea just noticed

 

[old.Mud]

You're right, I hadn't read it. I made an attempt to a couple of days ago, but I couldn't stomach the high and mighty pretentious bullshit, to be frank.

I managed it today, though.

Point in context numero uno:

and the translocator actually totally ruins the game for a lot of people, and removes the essence of CTF – the fighting your way in and out of the enemy base to get the flag.

That's crap, basically. If you TL all the way into the base with a total disregard for any and all defenders in the base, then you're going to have a very difficult time getting out again.

[regarding face...]People have learnt to use the translocator in such a way that they can get to the enemy base without ever having to combat or fight anyone, and with relative ease.

See antonyms at "LPB single shock ASMD Whore with Amp". See also "Ridge camping combo-whores" and "snipers camping on the enemy base".

The translocator wasn’t designed for this.

Give me proof.

What’s worse is the fact that if done quickly enough, you can actually telefrag the flag carrier without any skill or effort required.

It was at this point that I was seriously beginning to wonder if your article was in fact satire.

I honestly can't be bothered to read the rest. You still, to me at least, sound like you're accusing people of moving. You keep making references to "the midfield should be able to stop the FC, oooh, ooh, you shouldn't be able to TL up to our FC, that's just lame." Erm, right. I say no TL would detract from teamwork MORE than having a TL would. Why? Because it means that your team will actually have to cover the FC, not just "make sure you kill the midfield at the right moment - MEANS WE GOTTA CLEAR RUN GUYS. WOO-FUCKING-HOOOOO". Nahm'sayin?

I apologise for the disjointed-ness of this post, I'm not the best writer in the world. ;\

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Your comments are the comical ones. You ask me to explain so much, and yet you don't bother to a) Read my column fully and b) Read this thread fully.

 

[old.Mud]

Oh, I'm sure I've read enough to have an opinion.
And everybody deserves answers.