Do u like the translocator ??

[Wij]

More sensible place for this discussion...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I was about to write a column update about this, but I can't access the admin login page, for some reason... Oh well.... /me sets about writing it... offline *shudder*

 

[Testin da Cable]

lol
I'll wait for your column m8eh

in the meantime...

I hate the fscking thing and hardly ever use it.
But when I use it....

 

[Wij]

Argh, no-skillz f00lz

t/l is needed. Q3CTF just seems dull without a mobility tool and grapples spoil the game too much because they remove a lot of the teamwork from capping.

t/l gets it just right. What is there to dislike. Telepunting ? Telefragging ? What dammit ???

 

[Testin da Cable]

mmm well:
-mainly cos I can get most places I wanna go without it
-I consider it dangerous to leave a telepoint sitting around [thus gotta use it instantly]
-don't have a nice keybind for it -yet [but that's just lazy me]
-havn't come to a point [yet] where I really _really_ had to use it. perhaps there are some custom levels out there that force you to use it but I havn't played them yet so m00

that would be nice tho: a good custom map that forced you to use the teleporter to get around.
it would be a b|0tch to play [in the beginning] but I expect quite fun after a bit. quality over quantity would kick in and the real fun would start

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I have wirtten my column update on it. I still cannot access the admin login section so you'll have to wait to read it.

(I won't post it here as it 1,142 words, and people will be unwillingly to read that in a single forum post - I know I would).

Stay tuned.

 

[old.[RSi]Stanley]

Exactly the same discussion going on over at WirePlay http://forums.gameplay.com/showthread.php?threadid=262471 Note [MMX]NinjaGaz's post.

Translocator should definently be on for CTF but off for DM

If you don't agree just read [MMX]NinjaGaz's post

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by [RSi]Stanley
Exactly the same discussion going on over at WirePlay

Yeah but Wireplay is full of weenies and n00bies

 

[old.[RSi]Stanley]

Oops pressed enter by mistake Wazz!!

See above post with link!

Yeah but Wireplay is full of weenies and n00bies

Rofl Big community over there, they'll have ya for that!!

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Oh nos!1111 The noobies shall flood and flame me!

 

[Testin da Cable]

Originally posted by [RSi]Stanley

Translocator should definently be on for CTF but off for DM

innit

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Noooooooooooo!

Dammit I wanna up my column so I can put my point accross :/

 

[Testin da Cable]

lol

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by [RSi]Stanley
If you don't agree just read [MMX]NinjaGaz's post

Ah, I wondered where NG was these days

I'll go read it...

 

[old.Duck-Tape_(uk)]

If u ask me, the translocator should be BANNED! It totally mucks up the whole gameplay in all modes. Why have it? It removes the skill of impact jumping

The translocator..... nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Wij]

Yup Gaz's comment reflect my views too. Imagine trying to get to the enemy base in face or trying to get across the top route on lava. You'd be sniped instantly or combo'd when you get there. Your movement would be so easy to predict. iCTF is completely different, no point in comparing.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Well then organise a proper attack with some team mates, one behind 2, sniping them whilst the front 2 fire rockets or some such at them. That's just an example off the top of my head - but this is what the game needs, the removal of "make things easy" devices and make people work hard at the game, which will lead in ultimately more satisfying games...


STILL waiting on the 500 error on bw admin login to go so I can update my column....

 

[old.Gaston]

Originally posted by Wazzerphuk
Oh nos!1111 The noobies shall flood and flame me!

sigh

I happen to be part of that community. I made a post there instead of here. So I cant be botehred reapeating myself again.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I love the way some people can't for the life of them take anything light heartedly

 

[old.DELTA007]

TL takes skill away from the game? LOL. Probably the IH takes out more skill, because you can use it to take shortcuts as FC instead of fighting your way off the base

Also, returning a flag that had already left base would be near impossible to acomplish, whitout the TL... taking away alot of excitment and fast action of the game!

If you don't like the TL, just go play Q3 CTF... cause this is UT, not Quack 3 or something

Well then organise a proper attack with some team mates, one behind 2, sniping them whilst the front 2 fire rockets or some such at them.

This looks more like Cs than UT
Besides, you already have to do something like that when your FC is leaving their base, imagine having to do it everytime you're trying to reach the enemy base! And keep dieing and dieing and dieing... frustrasting and dull... TL on forever!

but this is what the game needs, the removal of "make things easy" devices

Ban all Power-ups. Ban the flak. Ban the shock rifle combo. Ban multi-rockets. Ban it all! Or maybe we can start playing with the Sniper Arena mutator. And when u've done it, change the name of the game to Real Tournament
UT isn't all about skills, it's also about pace... well, this is my 2 pence worth anyway

 

[Wazzerphuk]

OK, well I pestered bigfoot until the webserver for the admin login was rebooted and I've now managed to update my column on the matter, which you will find here.

 

[old.DELTA007]

Well, after reading your column Wazzerphuk, I've to say that I totally disagree with it, and that lots of stuff in there is *bullshit*.

Scripts have been found that enable the player to telefrag up to something ridiculous like 25 times a SECOND

432 and onwards patches for UT fix this, you can only shoot the TL twice per second.

and removes the essence of CTF – the fighting your way in and out of the enemy base to get the flag.

I never saw a FC teleporting around... not with the flag at least

People have learnt to use the translocator in such a way that they can get to the enemy base without ever having to combat or fight anyone, and with relative ease.

A shock whore in mid of CTF-Face will for sure kill 80% of peeps trying to go through, if they don't stop and try to kill him. Also a shock whore at the entrance of the tower will for sure give the enemy a run for their money if they just try to TL past him.

Some players drop their translocator onto the flag floor, so that when an enemy takes the flag, they can translocate immediately back to base, and attack the flag carrier.

The translocator module isn't invencible you know? Give it 1 or 2 rockets and if someone trys to use it, their gibs will be all over the floor. Now if you just grab the flag and ignore enemy TL modules, that's just being dumb.

You say it takes away the fun from the game... imagine playing Face on it. 4 snipers on each tower, and 1 guy trying to take the flag, hoping that his snipers will beat the enemys ones. How fun would that be ? And of course, the always nice respawn camping, so that you stay still... how would you get rid of that whitout the TL ?

The translocator wasn’t designed for this.

You had a meeting with Epic and asked them this?
Or is it because that's the only way the bots use it - to reach areas that would be harder to acess or even impossible without it ? We ain't bots
IMO, I think that the TL is there to give pace to the game, and unlike the grapling hook, stop games from being 4 defence and 1 lonely atacker, who can just hook himself out of the enemy base to his own with the flag...

I would like to see your replys on each of my comments ( I know they're alot ) because it's always nice to argument about something interesting, for a change. But I still think you're trying to turn UT into Real Tournament

 

[old.Fred]

Have you ever seen a instagib CTF match?, it sucks arse. None of the maps really works without tl and the poor instagib CTF community are forced to play the maps that suck the least arse without the tl (Eternal, Niven, Coret).

I think the biggest reason CTF overshadows all other mods in UT is the TL, and that the maps are designed around it. People like it and continue to play CTF to a degree no other mod can match. When Epic made the decision to slow it down after 4.28 (btw, the only real in game bug they fixed in a patch, so they probably feels strongly about the tl too) it solidified UTs position as the number one CTF game around. Two things make UT CTF what it is IMO: the (now balanced) tl and dodging. Take out either and UT will be much less fun.

 

[old.[RSi]Stanley]

I too have read Wazzerphuks column and I agree with Delta007 *Pure BullShit* :sleeping:

Sounds like you want us to play like bots?! Ok then... lets all walk slowly across the map, always come in and go out the same way, never chain-load rockets and only use the T/L when something is out of reach. How boring would this be??

Like Fred says iCTF is for ppl who don't like the T/L.

No element of teamplay is taken away by the T/L, its an effective way to get past a campy defence. HOWEVER, the Flag carrier CANNOT Translocate. He still needs cover to get out and I think you've forgot this!!

If you don't like the TL, just go play Q3 CTF... cause this is UT, not Quack 3 or something

Quack 3!!! ROFL

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by DELTA007
Well, after reading your column Wazzerphuk, I've to say that I totally disagree with it, and that lots of stuff in there is *bullshit*.

Saying you disagree is fine - calling someone's opinions and thoughts as bullshit is offensive, and that kind of atitude is out of order.

432 and onwards patches for UT fix this, you can only shoot the TL twice per second.

The point is it's been easily exploitable.

I never saw a FC teleporting around... not with the flag at least

Learn to read? Fight your way in and out? I never said the FC teleports? It takes more than one player to make a flag cap, very rarely would you ever see a solo cap. The translocator removes the fighting on the way in, and while one player escorts the FC, one, or two more will often translocate out quickly to clear midfield.

A shock whore in mid of CTF-Face will for sure kill 80% of peeps trying to go through, if they don't stop and try to kill him. Also a shock whore at the entrance of the tower will for sure give the enemy a run for their money if they just try to TL past him.

Ever tried this when you have 3 people all from different directions at a speed where you can't keep up with one of them? It's not possible.

The translocator module isn't invencible you know? Give it 1 or 2 rockets and if someone trys to use it, their gibs will be all over the floor. Now if you just grab the flag and ignore enemy TL modules, that's just being dumb.

Ever thought that you're actually busy fighting off people attacking you as you have the flag? I've never ran into a base and not seen someone gaurding it very close to it. And it's spelt invincible.

You say it takes away the fun from the game... imagine playing Face on it. 4 snipers on each tower, and 1 guy trying to take the flag, hoping that his snipers will beat the enemys ones. How fun would that be ? And of course, the always nice respawn camping, so that you stay still... how would you get rid of that whitout the TL ?

You've never played Face with the translocator off, have you. I have, several times with many varieties. You get the smae style of play as you would do, but people cross the map running, like they should do. 4 snipers on each team? Where do you make up this stuff?

You had a meeting with Epic and asked them this?
Or is it because that's the only way the bots use it - to reach areas that would be harder to acess or even impossible without it ? We ain't bots

Well yes, I interviewed Tim Sweeney once with the UTGamer team through IRC one night, when UTGamer.com was the second biggest UT site in the world (behind PU, of course).

I would like to see your replys on each of my comments ( I know they're alot ) because it's always nice to argument about something interesting, for a change. But I still think you're trying to turn UT into Real Tournament

And what's so bad about injecting more skill into the game?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by [RSi]Stanley
I too have read Wazzerphuks column and I agree with Delta007 *Pure BullShit* :sleeping:

Sounds like you want us to play like bots?! Ok then... lets all walk slowly across the map, always come in and go out the same way, never chain-load rockets and only use the T/L when something is out of reach. How boring would this be??

Like Fred says iCTF is for ppl who don't like the T/L.

No element of teamplay is taken away by the T/L, its an effective way to get past a campy defence. HOWEVER, the Flag carrier CANNOT Translocate. He still needs cover to get out and I think you've forgot this!!

Quack 3!!! ROFL

Since when have I ever said not to chain load rockets?
And a considerable amount of TP is taken away by it, you don't have to work your way accross the map, you don't have to secure midfield by fighting your way into it - it virtually cuts mid out all together and you can be in the enemy base within a few seconds without any effort or any skill or teamplay.

And you found "Quack 3" hilarious. This kind of invalidates everything you've ever spoken in your life since it shows how simple your mentality is.

 

[old.DELTA007]

calling someone's opinions and thoughts as bullshit is offensive

I never said your opinions were bs. I was refering to when you said that the TL script that shot 25 times per second was used, since it's been fixed in the patch, and also when u refered to as getting in\out of base, i did thought u were meaning to what I wrote after. I'm not english, so bare with me some of my writing\reading failures.

Ever tried this when you have 3 people all from different directions at a speed where you can't keep up with one of them? It's not possible.

Thus the 80%, and not 100%

Ever thought that you're actually busy fighting off people attacking you as you have the flag?

If you finish off the guys you're killing, you can after that just lob a few rockets at the module. If you manage to get out of there while they're chasing you, no point, cause it's already far from you. If you die... you die.

You've never played Face with the translocator off, have you. I have, several times with many varieties.

Yes, true, but didn't you played it with people you knew and were your friends ? There are clans out there that play to win, no matter the costs... Thus the rules against reedemer lifting and suchs...

Well yes, I interviewed Tim Sweeney once with the UTGamer team through IRC one night, when UTGamer.com was the second biggest UT site in the world (behind PU, of course).

Did he said the TL was only meant to reach certain places? And if yes, why they kept it this way, and not made a limit in a patch of 15 sec\ throw, instead of the .5 sec\throw one, to avoid the script ?

And what's so bad about injecting more skill into the game?

1st I don't think TL takes away skill from the game, unlike Reedemer and the Boots+IH jumps.
2nd, nothing wrong with more skill, as long as the other games aspects we like remain... and that means its fast pace.

Again I said I didn't meant to offend you with my comments, I'm not english, I live far from there, and I was only trying to make a nice and clean discussion.

And yes, I've played lots of CTF games with lots of top clans, so I do know (at least most of the things i do) what I'm saying.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Originally posted by DELTA007
Thus the 80%, and not 100%

More like 30%, if you're lucky.

If you finish off the guys you're killing, you can after that just lob a few rockets at the module. If you manage to get out of there while they're chasing you, no point, cause it's already far from you. If you die... you die.

I don't know about you but I don't hang around when I've picked up the flag once I've picked it up - I fight my way on the run, out of the base, so I wouldn't know the module is there.

Did he said the TL was only meant to reach certain places? And if yes, why they kept it this way, and not made a limit in a patch of 15 sec\ throw, instead of the .5 sec\throw one, to avoid the script ?

This was before the script that enabled huge overusage of the translocator. I did ask him on what he thought about the way in which people had taken to it, and he did indeed say that it's intentions are to open up new areas, reach objects and create more tactical play. He wasn't too keen on the way some people were using it to fly around the map.

1st I don't think TL takes away skill from the game, unlike Reedemer and the Boots+IH jumps.
2nd, nothing wrong with more skill, as long as the other games aspects we like remain... and that means its fast pace.

It takes a lot of skill away from it, because it removes a considerable amount of fighting. Yes, I hate the redeemer and the IH+jumps jump, but even these take more skill. You have to physically fly the redeemer in most cases, and this risks being shot down. And the IH requires you to take time and does damage on yourself. I'm not excusing this at all, I'm just saying it requires more skill and has negative effects to (poorly) counterbalance the positive side.

Mmmmk? Don't worry about me being offended - I don't take offense to anything, I'm just in my funny own way trying to warn you away from possibly offending people in the future.

*HUUUUUUUG*

 

[old.DELTA007]

Maybe we should meet in irc, instead of posting every 10 minutes

More like 30%, if you're lucky.

If I'm playing [MC] or some other top top clan, yeah, i'll be lucky if i get that high. Don't underestimate me evil powa with the shock (/me fluffles |Ng|Careca).

I don't know about you but I don't hang around when I've picked up the flag once I've picked it up - I fight my way on the run, out of the base, so I wouldn't know the module is there.

So If you don't even notice it being used, it has the same impact has a enemy who just respawned near... what's wrong with that ?

It takes a lot of skill away from it, because it removes a considerable amount of fighting. Yes, I hate the redeemer and the IH+jumps jump, but even these take more skill. You have to physically fly the redeemer in most cases, and this risks being shot down. And the IH requires you to take time and does damage on yourself. I'm not excusing this at all, I'm just saying it requires more skill and has negative effects to (poorly) counterbalance the positive side.

No one with half a brain will fly a reedemer m8, cause it will be shot down. They'll wait for the right time to shoot it at the ground, giving no chance of destroying the reedemer, killing 3 or 4 enemys that were chasing the FC.
If you see closely, you'll see that having the TLL off won't make more fights happen in UT, by the contraire. With the TL, we can more fastly get to the point where we want to, and start fighting. Something I'll doubt will happen if you've to walk everything, as you'll have to walk your way (and perhaps during that, have some fights) until you get to the point you want.

Damn you 6T3 guys. First I had a discussion with Bry because of reedemer, now with you because of TL. What's next?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

He doesn't half love his lame gun, doesn't he?

So If you don't even notice it being used, it has the same impact has a enemy who just respawned near... what's wrong with that ?

Probably the fact that the instant the translocate, they'll spam the area like mad, and be fully stocked up on guns and ammo.