disgrace

[nath]

Dodgy members of the muslim faith - priests/clerics whatever the equivalent is. Basically, as Morchaoron said.

 

[Driwen]

He himself was ashamed to admit this, being 50+yrs old but he said at the end of the day...i wont ever come to ur house, i wont ever meet ur family..you wont meet mine, simply because it isnt allowed

Now surely this type of thing has something more to do with religion than just race,colour?

Its in most foreign cultures that live abroad. The chinese tend to stick together aswell and that hasnt got much to do with the Islam. It is probably that the majority of the people of such cultures imagine that if they allow people to "hang" out from outside their culture that they wouldnt keep their own society and that their culture would disappear. So they dont allow people to see other people to prevent that they have to adapt to a different culture sooner or later.

Atleast thats what I think. The Islam doesnt teach people to not talk to non believers, hell it actually wants you to try and convince people to believe in it. Off course talking to people about religion can cause you to get new ideas about it aswell, so it can be bad for the religious rulers. However the religious rulers isnt the same as the Islam/koran.

 

[NeonBlue]

Its in most foreign cultures that live abroad. The chinese tend to stick together aswell and that hasnt got much to do with the Islam. It is probably that the majority of the people of such cultures imagine that if they allow people to "hang" out from outside their culture that they wouldnt keep their own society and that their culture would disappear. So they dont allow people to see other people to prevent that they have to adapt to a different culture sooner or later.

could be well true..and to a degree i can see that happening.

But surely by isolating ur people from things such as this then ur only gonna create more problems which is what seems to be happening now within the UK.

One could also take that a step further and say that the native Brisish people bending over backwards for other culture/ religions that we ourselves are losing our own beliefs...our own culture and therefore we feel that they are taking over and get the feeling that its us, who are victims of racism

On another point why is it that the Muslim people are the ONLY 1s who insist on having their own schools...own places of worhsip...their own signs ... written in their own language, fly the Pakistani flag etc

I dont see the Chinese kicking up a fuss...or the Seikhs, they are happy or it seems to accept what they have. e.g Bristish schools..English Signs etc

There is no simple answer to the problem but i firmly believe for it to have a chance people have got to get along...be willing to learn/adapt to each other cultures etc...and when u get 1 body who "seems" to refuse to do this...then it aint gonna work and your gonna get more racial tension.

 

[Boggy]

Personally I think that people who join a nation should learn the language and do what they can to fit into a culture, but making this about Islam is just silly.

There are plenty of Brits all around the world who have gone to a country to live who hang around mainly with Brits and refuse to learn the language. Eg. Spain.

A fair proportion of emigrants from all cultures are lazy and/or too scared to step outside the comfort zone offered by their own cultural trappings. You'll probably find older people the worst offenders and when you're old, you'll understand why. Until then stop condemning people as "things". They are still people whatever language they speak.

 

[NeonBlue]

I cant remember why Islam actually popped up, but i suppose because the only community i have problems with is Muslims then Isalm is gonna pop up

There are plenty of Brits all around the world who have gone to a country to live who hang around mainly with Brits and refuse to learn the language. Eg. Spain.

aye and they are the lazy/ignorant type

 

[Job]

As a pro-active Athiest, I don't just believe in a Godless Universe, I try to convert everyone religous nut I meet.

To be honest I feel a great deal of prejudice to anyone who shows religous belief, I mock them, I regard them as being spineless, sheeplike, easily led ......the list goes on.

There is no point in me pretending to tolerate them, it just isn't true.

I also deal with believers in Tarot cards, Mind readers, fortune tellers, Astrology with the same insufferance.

I have been physically thrown out of houses after arguments over Astrology
(some people REALLY believe that shit)

I find it hard to give any credence to the thinking of a person who has made the fundamental mental suicidal leap of believing Grade A bullshit.

And ,no it isn't 'private' or 'personal', it is a huge gap of reason between me and them.

Religous leaders don't believe in God, they're in it for the money like everyone else...yes even good old Mama Teresa, fame and respect was her payoff.................belive in God ..my ass, she saw too much shit to keep that crap going in her head.

 

[Yussef]

On another point why is it that the Muslim people are the ONLY 1s who insist on having their own schools...own places of worhsip...their own signs ... written in their own language, fly the Pakistani flag etc.

I've seen Jewish schools, Synagogues (sp?) etc, it was amazing how much racist comments they received from my PE class when we walked past it :|

 

[nath]

I find it hard to give any credence to the thinking of a person who has made the fundamental mental suicidal leap of believing Grade A bullshit.

I'm an atheist myself, but science has yet to disprove the existence of God. Read A Brief History of Time, interestingly enough Hawking clearly states that none of the things covered in the book disprove the existence of God, and some could even be God's influence. Personally, I don't believe it but what makes you so certain that there's no such thing. Arrogant beliefs that are so utterly certain as to disregard the possibility for any other ideas is one of the reasons people find Jehovahs Witnesses so frustrating...

You're just demonstrating your own ignorance by closing your mind to other possibilities when they haven't even been disproven.

 

[NeonBlue]

I've seen Jewish schools, Synagogues (sp?) etc, it was amazing how much racist comments they received from my PE class when we walked past it :|

ahh good point...ive seen those too, though not in my area

 

[NeonBlue]

I also deal with believers in Tarot cards, Mind readers, fortune tellers, Astrology with the same insufferance.

I have been physically thrown out of houses after arguments over Astrology
(some people REALLY believe that shit)

depends what u believe about it...ive seen many "unexplained" things...ive experienced many "spiritual" things

My wife does the tarot cards and is a Psychic and though before i met her i didnt believe in any of it...ive seen her tell complete strangers things about their life, their families..she just couldnt of known just by holding their hand

So until uve witnessed something like this is, you arent really in a position to say its bollocks, u can say u dont believe in it...but to say its bollocks is just silly...as i found out myself

 

[nath]

I'm personally not convinced that's necessarily related to spirituality. Have you seen Derren Browns show? He's not religious (afaik) and manages to work out loads of things from them without people telling him much. The mind is a lot more intuative than we know.

 

[NeonBlue]

I'm personally not convinced that's necessarily related to spirituality. Have you seen Derren Browns show? He's not religious (afaik) and manages to work out loads of things from them without people telling him much. The mind is a lot more intuative than we know.

i havent...though when it comes to TV shows of that nature i tend to be paranoid into thinking they are all setup in some way or another.

And i wasnt meaning to link anything to spirituality...i just couldnt think of another word to describe what i was meaning.

I suppose the word to describe the "spirtual" things i was looking for, would be paranormal, which is something i do believe in and have had 1st hand experience in.

But yes i totally agree that there is alot more to the "mind" than we know

 

[Bunnytwo]

Define Terrorist. The Israeli forces are as irresponsible as the Palestinian resistence. Just because one is officially sanctioned, doesn't make them right in what they do.

Perception is what is wrong with the world, there're too many objective views. Two people can commit the same action, and one will be justified while another is wrong. It's all to do with how much bullshit you can feed the masses and how readily they believe you.

If Gunships are shooting down suspects and killing civilians(+children) in the process, then it is as bad as a suicide bomber blowing up civilians. You say Israelis are justified in killing palestinians, because of the losses they've taken. Palestinians say the same. I don't see a difference.

You're also saying people can be bulldozed and get crushed while they sleep, because the house was given to them for having a suicide bomber in the family? Explain why this makes sense to you.

You see you are the victim of propoganda. As I mentioned earlier, state controlled media(CNN, BBC etc) will tell people who to like and who to hate. They need people like you to belive their bullshit, so well done on being a good citizen

Intent is key, if a pilot goes out to take out a legit target, whether this is a military base, a military leader etc and a child/civilian etc gets killed in the process, this is not his intent, he may realise this will happen, but it unavoidable in any major conflict, civilians get killed. If you cannot see the distinction between this and someone who goes out to kill civilian, then I think you are the one who is the victim of propoganda. You might as well say that a serial killer is the same as the person who kills him to save his family, he result is the same they both kill a person.

Nope can't say that I've picked up my ideas about the conflict in the middle east from the media, rather from study. Though tbh I would rather pick it up from the BBC than from some conspiracy theory website.

 

[Bunnytwo]

England is largely an Atheist country now, did any figures come out from the Census on the UK's religious-belief percentages?

2001 Census figures

Thousands %

Christian 42079, 71.6
Buddhist 152, 0.3
Hindu 559, 1
Jewish 267, 0.5
Muslim 1591, 2.7
Sikh 336, 0.6
Other 179, 0.3
religion
All 45163, 76.8
religions
No religion 9104, 15.5
Not stated 4289, 7.3

Base 58789, 100

 

[Escape]

The Christian% is higher than I'd expected, but I guess 'No religion' will rise sharply over the next couple of decades.

Intent is key, if a pilot goes out to take out a legit target, whether this is a military base, a military leader etc and a child/civilian etc gets killed in the process, this is not his intent, he may realise this will happen, but it unavoidable in any major conflict, civilians get killed. If you cannot see the distinction between this and someone who goes out to kill civilian, then I think you are the one who is the victim of propoganda. You might as well say that a serial killer is the same as the person who kills him to save his family, he result is the same they both kill a person.

Nope can't say that I've picked up my ideas about the conflict in the middle east from the media, rather from study. Though tbh I would rather pick it up from the BBC than from some conspiracy theory website.

The "intent" argument could only be used if you're going to use incompetence and stupidity in the same sentence. Are you seriously telling me that a gunship which fires rockets on a busy road to blow up a car shouldn't expect to harm any civilians? and should any die, he genuinely tried to avoid it?

Or a bulldozer smashing through a populated street isn't intending to crush anyone... and if the residents don't leave their houses in time... well, it's their fault because the driver had no 'intent' to run over civilians.

The fact is, the Israeli forces don't care for Palestinian lives and by your arguments, you share that sentiment. You may not be racist, but you are biased against Muslims which is apparent from everything you;ve said. Even the comment about Indonesian massacares, yes I use plural because the killing was on both sides. Not one, as you've tried to imply.

+ I don't read conspiracy websites, there's enough crap on the web without me looking for more
I only watch C4 news as the rest is too biased. CNN being a prime example.

 

[NeonBlue]

.The "intent" argument could only be used if you're going to use incompetence and stupidity in the same sentence. Are you seriously telling me that a gunship which fires rockets on a busy road to blow up a car shouldn't expect to harm any civilians? and should any die, he genuinely tried to avoid it?

If in a major conflict...to achieve their aim of taking out military targets, civilian casulties are gonna happen...and just because they do...doesnt mean the gunship pilot wants this to happen...but to follow his orders and take out his target...its gonna happen...unavoidable

.Or a bulldozer smashing through a populated street isn't intending to crush anyone... and if the residents don't leave their houses in time... well, it's their fault because the driver had no 'intent' to run over civilians.

if they dont leave their house when they see a bulldozer coming..1) they need their heads testing 2) yes its their fault

.The fact is, the Israeli forces don't care for Palestinian lives and by your arguments, you share that sentiment. You may not be racist, but you are biased against Muslims which is apparent from everything you;ve said. Even the comment about Indonesian massacares, yes I use plural because the killing was on both sides. Not one, as you've tried to imply.

and whats apparent from everything you have said...is that you will do ur best to twist what ppl have said and use it against them.

1 could say while u call other ppl biased against Muslims...u have done ur upmost to defend em.

If your trying to play the devils advocate...or trying to be neutral and provide sensible agruments to ppls post...u aint doing a good job imo

 

[Tom]

if they dont leave their house when they see a bulldozer coming..1) they need their heads testing 2) yes its their fault

And how do you do that in the middle of the night, when you're asleep?

 

[NeonBlue]

And how do you do that in the middle of the night, when you're asleep?

i think the sound of a big bulldozer outside ur house, might just, wake ya up

 

[Bunnytwo]

The Christian% is higher than I'd expected, but I guess 'No religion' will rise sharply over the next couple of decades.

The "intent" argument could only be used if you're going to use incompetence and stupidity in the same sentence. Are you seriously telling me that a gunship which fires rockets on a busy road to blow up a car shouldn't expect to harm any civilians? and should any die, he genuinely tried to avoid it?

Or a bulldozer smashing through a populated street isn't intending to crush anyone... and if the residents don't leave their houses in time... well, it's their fault because the driver had no 'intent' to run over civilians.

The fact is, the Israeli forces don't care for Palestinian lives and by your arguments, you share that sentiment. You may not be racist, but you are biased against Muslims which is apparent from everything you;ve said. Even the comment about Indonesian massacares, yes I use plural because the killing was on both sides. Not one, as you've tried to imply.

+ I don't read conspiracy websites, there's enough crap on the web without me looking for more
I only watch C4 news as the rest is too biased. CNN being a prime example.

Nope the intent argument is that in the gunship case the pilot is taking out a military target if civilians happen to be there that cannot be helped, the suicide bomber is attempting to kill civilians, that is his aim. The gunship pilot has no way of avoiding civilian casualties and if he did as you seem to think and not attack a target because civilians would get hurt then he would never fire a shot because terrorist types have a nasty tendency to place high value targets next to schools/hospitals etc (BTW saw a video a few years back of an Israeli jet bombing a refugee camp (which had suitable oh aren't the Israeli's evil coverage in the news, particularly on C4 news) and there were SAMs coming up at it from inside the camp (and a lot of small arms fire), and I ain't talking little shoulder launched jobs but full truck mounted missiles.

LOL C4 explains it. Yes of course Indonesia invade East Timor and slaughters the native population, bringing in militia and carrying out programs of enforced sterilisation and yes of course you are right in talking about massacres on both sides. You really don't have a clue what you're talking about. The East Timorise had a guerilla force, who fought a legitimate fight, not terrorism, they went for military targets. If you can in the same post defend a suicide bomber killing blowing up a school bus and then equate a guerilla killing a soldier to a soldier injecting acid into civilians or gutting a pregnant woman and smashing the baby's head against a tree and all the other things that went on in East Timor then there really is no hope for you.

 

[Hawkwind]

Religeous Intolerance

It really makes me mad when I see so many Muslims making statements about embracing different religions and being misunderstood. Just go to the home of Islam and see how embracing of other religions they are there. Try getting through immigration at Jeddah with a crucifix round your neck. I have personally witnessed symbols of Christianity being ripped of by immigration officials and thrown in the bin. You’re not allowed to have the Christian Cross shown at all. Even the UK’s diplomatic car in Jeddah is not allowed to fly the Union Jack.

Admittedly this is the only Country I have been to which shows such contempt to other religions. Having lived in Oman, UAE and spent a while in Indonesia things are a lot different. But this is the home of Islam FFS and they behave like that and expect tolerance and understanding. It’s a one way street as far as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is concerned.

Why is nothing done by our respective Governments? Because money talks and the Saudis’ have a lot of it.

Just my rant on the most intolerant country in the world I know of.